Hello - this post will be about how to solve various problems regarding moving into a caravan full time, in the north of Norway. We are two people, my girlfriend and myself, and we have decided that we don't really need that much space. This has taken us a few years to realize, including buying and shortly after selling a smallholding in the south of Norway. Upon selling we also finally seized the opportunity to downsize our ownership anxiety, and thus got rid of tonnes of stuff. It was the full on experience, with enormous "oh no I need that!" up front, and then "I can't believe we actually had that much crap" now. Awesome, and thanks Early Retirement Extreme-book for opening our eyes!
Anyway, we've moved to a village in Northern Norway which is an amazing place. Contrary to popular belief, it's not particularly cold here - if your frame of reference is Norway of course. It's way more windy, fair enough, but the temperatures will go much lower where we came from, a whole 1300 km south from here. Down there between -20 and -30 isn't uncommon during winter, where we are now, -15 is a really bad day.
So that's the climactic scenery for our challenge. Now we're living in a rented house with plenty of rooms, of which we use two and a half, counting the kitchen, but not the bathroom. There are halls, stairways and all kinds of things. Regardless of the rent being very friendly here (we pay 3700 NOK a month, as opposed to 11 500 which we used to pay for a modest flat in central Oslo), we can still save more. Being without a mortgage after selling our old smallholding, this is super tempting.
In other words, the questions is what now? I'm a fairly competent DIYer - I can fix most things on a car for example, I generally manage to improvise solutions and am a fair wood worker (I suck compared to pros, though rule compared to newbies). Is a caravan in general serviceable - I'm particularly thinking about the actual "chassis" - water intrusion and the like?
What sort of caravan do I get? An old fixerupper or a fairly new one with the aim to sell on? For now we have a few years' perspective, though if we like it we might do many more. As the years progress I plan to start learning how to build stuff myself - first off with a pole barn perhaps, maybe a garage or something, and also straw bale structures. These are ideas for now. Especially thoughts around how to solve the whole winter thing would be great - what I've seen so far are caravans attached to some semi permanent structure with a wood heater. (Wood supply shouldn't be an issue).
I hope to manage to find somewhere with a power hook up, and preferably also a water hook up. Ideally I'd combine the caravan with an outside composting toilet, and then keep the included toilet for "special occasions". Does anyone have experience with using this type of toilet for prolonged periods? I've never used one, and actually I wouldn't really be able to describe how it works.
It seems that hooking up to the grid for electricity is the only practical option for now, especially since the winter here entails a rather long period of very little sunlight, and this is the time when it would be most needed.
I think that sort of covers it, and I do realize that this is a long read. What I'm hoping for is that someone has concrete experience with this sort of endeavour, and may be able to offer some dos and don'ts, or elaborations where I obviously haven't thought about things. As soon as I get more of an idea of what I'm looking for I'm going to start planning for the actual purchase and carry this out. Thanks for taking the time if you came this far!
Living in a caravan in Northern Norway
Re: Living in a caravan in Northern Norway
I don't have any personal experience with this lifestyle, but I admire your adventuorus mindset.
May I ask which town/area you will be settling in?
And do you have any plans for hunting, gathering or fishing for food?
May I ask which town/area you will be settling in?
And do you have any plans for hunting, gathering or fishing for food?
Re: Living in a caravan in Northern Norway
Hi, and thank you!
We'll be living in Vestbygda, on the northern shores of Vestfjorden. Exactly where remains to be decided though (obviously). It's a pretty cool area - so far I'm really liking it!
We'll be living in Vestbygda, on the northern shores of Vestfjorden. Exactly where remains to be decided though (obviously). It's a pretty cool area - so far I'm really liking it!
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jacob
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Re: Living in a caravan in Northern Norway
I have some 0C experience in a camper. (Note: I presume you're giving temp ranges in Celcius and not Fahrenheit).
In general, you want a cheap/old one, not necessarily a fixer-upper, but definitely not something you want to sell later on unless you are willing to accept a significant loss. Recreational vehicles depreciate in value as fast as cars. In ten years, their values is gonna be close to zero.
Most brands are completely uninsulated. All that's between you and the outside world are two pieces of 1/8 or 1/4" plywood. I could give you some US brands that include insulation, but most RVs don't.
Either you need to burn lots of propane (most four season RVs I saw in Wyoming had really big propane tanks stationed outside.) to defend your plumbing or you have to insulate/not use it. The outside loo would work although you'd need an electric heater to drive the composting.
If you you use black/grey tanks, you can leave your gray tank open to drain directly into a septic system. You can't do that with a black water tank (crap gets stuck in the lines) and thus you would need to burn propane to keep it from freezing. Alternatively, you need to get used to enjoying near freezing indoor temperatures. This is entirely possible. See theanimal's journal.
We put two heavy weight polytarps (actually reused freeway billboards) on the roof of our RV which reduced propane bills by 75%!!!
As an alternative, I suggest looking into building your own tiny house an insulating it to the max. RVs aren't generally intended for what you're planning.
In general, you want a cheap/old one, not necessarily a fixer-upper, but definitely not something you want to sell later on unless you are willing to accept a significant loss. Recreational vehicles depreciate in value as fast as cars. In ten years, their values is gonna be close to zero.
Most brands are completely uninsulated. All that's between you and the outside world are two pieces of 1/8 or 1/4" plywood. I could give you some US brands that include insulation, but most RVs don't.
Either you need to burn lots of propane (most four season RVs I saw in Wyoming had really big propane tanks stationed outside.) to defend your plumbing or you have to insulate/not use it. The outside loo would work although you'd need an electric heater to drive the composting.
If you you use black/grey tanks, you can leave your gray tank open to drain directly into a septic system. You can't do that with a black water tank (crap gets stuck in the lines) and thus you would need to burn propane to keep it from freezing. Alternatively, you need to get used to enjoying near freezing indoor temperatures. This is entirely possible. See theanimal's journal.
We put two heavy weight polytarps (actually reused freeway billboards) on the roof of our RV which reduced propane bills by 75%!!!
As an alternative, I suggest looking into building your own tiny house an insulating it to the max. RVs aren't generally intended for what you're planning.
Re: Living in a caravan in Northern Norway
Thanks Jacob, I was starting to worry that my initial post was perhaps a little too long... The temperatures are indeed in Celsius, yes, I should've specified.
Having kept an eye on the market for a few months now, I was pretty close to your conclusion about depreciation - besides, some of the older ones really don't look much different from the newer.
Anyway, I have to admit your reply wasn't what I was hoping for, but then it might quite possibly be a most needed warning. I do have a tendency to lock in to ideas. My initial reaction to a tiny home, which I have previously considered, is that a) it's going to be a lot of work to build, compared to buying a caravan and taking it home, and b) it doesn't have wheels (though this isn't necessarily 100% true, I know).
Having said that, I don't get the impression that you're saying it's absolutely impossible. From browsing the caravan market in Norway, it does seem like there are some that are insulated - at least they claim to be "winter proof". If that means that they just have a huge propane tank though, that's less than ideal.
Getting used to near freezing is indeed quite interesting, but I think out of our immediate scope. My curiosity is piqued though, and that's generally how it all starts, isn't it.
About the septic situation I also need to think some more. Using outdoors composting toilets isn't at all uncommon in Norway, though it's generally done in shorter periods in holiday homes. These are natural without auxilliary heating. Having an altogether alternative arrangement of bathroom functions would seemingly be quite practical, thus not needing plumbing in the caravan - or at least doing so for the winter. Problem is that there are no obvious candidates for such an arrangement - there aren't many gyms around or the like...
Anyway, thanks for giving me plenty of input to think about, and also providing somewhat of a caution to a sometimes too enthusiastic person. I'll try and get more informed and then post what I find out.
Having kept an eye on the market for a few months now, I was pretty close to your conclusion about depreciation - besides, some of the older ones really don't look much different from the newer.
Anyway, I have to admit your reply wasn't what I was hoping for, but then it might quite possibly be a most needed warning. I do have a tendency to lock in to ideas. My initial reaction to a tiny home, which I have previously considered, is that a) it's going to be a lot of work to build, compared to buying a caravan and taking it home, and b) it doesn't have wheels (though this isn't necessarily 100% true, I know).
Having said that, I don't get the impression that you're saying it's absolutely impossible. From browsing the caravan market in Norway, it does seem like there are some that are insulated - at least they claim to be "winter proof". If that means that they just have a huge propane tank though, that's less than ideal.
Getting used to near freezing is indeed quite interesting, but I think out of our immediate scope. My curiosity is piqued though, and that's generally how it all starts, isn't it.
About the septic situation I also need to think some more. Using outdoors composting toilets isn't at all uncommon in Norway, though it's generally done in shorter periods in holiday homes. These are natural without auxilliary heating. Having an altogether alternative arrangement of bathroom functions would seemingly be quite practical, thus not needing plumbing in the caravan - or at least doing so for the winter. Problem is that there are no obvious candidates for such an arrangement - there aren't many gyms around or the like...
Anyway, thanks for giving me plenty of input to think about, and also providing somewhat of a caution to a sometimes too enthusiastic person. I'll try and get more informed and then post what I find out.
Re: Living in a caravan in Northern Norway
Make sure you find out the local laws regarding house size, building permits, sewage. There may be different set of rules for year round living.
Re: Living in a caravan in Northern Norway
A quick Google search seems to indicate that Sweden has several builders, and that their caravans are made for Scandinavian winters. Apparently camping in the winter is more popular than I would have thought, and with some modifications some use them in temperatures below -40C. They may not care as much as you do about the heating costs, though. You'll find help about what to do in Scandinavian caravan forums.
Re: Living in a caravan in Northern Norway
Jesus, how had I not thought about that! There's a forum for everything, there's a forum for everything, there's a forum for everything. Thanks! I'm quite nearly ashamed of myself.
EMJ: Regulations won't be a problem - we're in the sticks, and besides, these things aren't very heavily regulated anyway. I'm confident I can get away with most anything as long as the house has wheels.
EMJ: Regulations won't be a problem - we're in the sticks, and besides, these things aren't very heavily regulated anyway. I'm confident I can get away with most anything as long as the house has wheels.
Re: Living in a caravan in Northern Norway
Hi Poleo,
I live in a caravan. If you want to share experiences or if you have any questions feel free to ask. I'm no expert, but I have learnt some things and have a few experiences. The coldest it's been here is about -20 C. It's seems to be working so far. Some things are a bit challenging, but all in all I find it nice and cozy.
I live in a caravan. If you want to share experiences or if you have any questions feel free to ask. I'm no expert, but I have learnt some things and have a few experiences. The coldest it's been here is about -20 C. It's seems to be working so far. Some things are a bit challenging, but all in all I find it nice and cozy.
Re: Living in a caravan in Northern Norway
Hi! Great! I'll get in touch by PM.