Disaster has struck. My wife and I have slowly and happily been moving further and further from dependence on the money economy, to the point where our monthly expenses are less than $600 a month. And then what do you think should happen?
Our daughter is five, that's what. We're home-schooling, but there are lots of free programs through the local school system where she can go hang out with kids her age. All fine and sweet and dandy. The problem:
My wife has suddenly decided she wants to fit in with these other moms, which can best be described as the soccer-mom variety. And of course what that means is that in order for them to look upon her as an equal we have to keep the fact that we live in a trailer park on the down-low. It was my suggestion that a bunch of snooty bitches who are going to judge you based on your house are not worth fitting in with. You can imagine how well that went over.
Okay, so we've been looking at leaving our current location (Alexandria, Mn) and moving to a larger town (either St. Cloud or the Twin Cities). We were planning on bringing our old mobile home and putting it in a park somewhere, but that is now off the table. My wife wants to be in a McHouse. Period, end-of-sentence. A McApartment can be used as an intermediary step, but the point is that it has to look middle-class (that's not how she phrases it, but it's what she means).
This is kind of a disaster. I don't wanna go back to work! My daughter doesn't want that, either. Ther problem here is that my wife is an introverted, avoidant personality who wants friends but won't go out and make them and these snooty idiots she meets at ECFE or whatever-the-fuck are companions she doesn't have to do any work to go out and meet. So she's decided that instead of going to the trouble of finding companions that she actually fits in with (we're both radicals on a number of levels, making that admittedly a bit of a rocky road) she just wants to go for mainstream social respectability. That costs money that I have no wish to earn.
So my question is this: I need to find a way have something that LOOKS like a McHouse but doesn't cost the money. Any ideas?
Cheap housing options that don't look cheap
@2handband: "So my question is this: I need to find a way have something that LOOKS like a McHouse but doesn't cost the money. Any ideas?"
This is more a marriage question than a housing question.
Probably the best option is for each of you to research your ideal places. Compare costs, apples to apples. Monthly rent. Heat/utilities. Savings permitted by each place. Shame produced by each place. Acknowledge that she wants something different than what you want. Not wrong. Not right. Different.
Then negotiate. See if you can find a middle ground that is fair for both of you.
Marriage can be a dictatorship that is miserable for the dictator and for those being who are dictated, or it can be a partnership where both people are working toward commonly agreed upon goals.
Partnerships are so much more fun.
This is more a marriage question than a housing question.
Probably the best option is for each of you to research your ideal places. Compare costs, apples to apples. Monthly rent. Heat/utilities. Savings permitted by each place. Shame produced by each place. Acknowledge that she wants something different than what you want. Not wrong. Not right. Different.
Then negotiate. See if you can find a middle ground that is fair for both of you.
Marriage can be a dictatorship that is miserable for the dictator and for those being who are dictated, or it can be a partnership where both people are working toward commonly agreed upon goals.
Partnerships are so much more fun.
mikeBOS at lackingambition.com has pretty much reached FI by buying cheap properties and then fixing them up to the point where they're middle-class-acceptable.
Here are some example posts for you to check out: one, two
He's basically substituted good decision making and handy man skills for dollars. Maybe you can do the same?
I'm looking forward to seeing what else people come up with in this thread, as this is something I'll probably want to tackle in five years or so.
Here are some example posts for you to check out: one, two
He's basically substituted good decision making and handy man skills for dollars. Maybe you can do the same?
I'm looking forward to seeing what else people come up with in this thread, as this is something I'll probably want to tackle in five years or so.
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secretwealth
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RealPerson
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I am not so sure that finding a McMansion for the cost of a trailer is possible, or even desirable. Once you have the McMansion, isn't the minivan coming next? Then it will be the soccer team with the cute little fancy uniforms, the daily coffee at Starbucks..... This will not stop at the house. There is no end to this as long as your wife wants to fit in with the soccer mom crowd. Trying to help her find a better peer group sounds more in keeping with your goals. Or, reading a book together to get her to understand that the new peer group will derail your financial independence, as J_ suggested. And focus more on the consequences of her requests for your family, rather than criticizing the ladies?
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secretwealth
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dot_com_vet
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Why not an older home?
Our 1950's ranch was about 1/4 the cost of a McHouse, and it's in a great location with nice neighbors. And, it's easy to maintain since it's one level. With the basement, it's 2k sq. ft., which I think is probably too much already.
We do get pressure from family/friends to upgrade to a McHouse. Something along the lines of we should "reward ourselves". Sorry, that's not going to happen.
Our 1950's ranch was about 1/4 the cost of a McHouse, and it's in a great location with nice neighbors. And, it's easy to maintain since it's one level. With the basement, it's 2k sq. ft., which I think is probably too much already.
We do get pressure from family/friends to upgrade to a McHouse. Something along the lines of we should "reward ourselves". Sorry, that's not going to happen.
I agree that this is about more than just a house. How about trying to find some like-minded parents who are either more accepting or in similar situations? Granted, there aren't many ERE-ers out there (relative to the general population) but you could find parents who are artists, musicians, homesteaders and other high-ideal/low-key lifestyle types. You could even move your trailer to a town that's more likely to have people like that.
That said, I have been able to buy foreclosures in small towns for less than $30k (that needed lots of work) that are decent little houses and perfectly "normal". But they're still nowhere near McMansion dimensions at 1,000 - 1,500 sq ft and with only one bathroom each. So they're good for "fitting in" and looking acceptably normal, but they're not going to impress anyone from the the 4 or 5 bedroom, 2 or 3 bathroom, new car every other year crowd.
I have seen "mansions" pop up in the foreclosure market from time to time. Houses that have been valued between $700k - $1.5M being sold for $50k- $200k. But they're in disrepair and those large houses can quickly get expensive to fix up. And they won't accept financing.
That said, I have been able to buy foreclosures in small towns for less than $30k (that needed lots of work) that are decent little houses and perfectly "normal". But they're still nowhere near McMansion dimensions at 1,000 - 1,500 sq ft and with only one bathroom each. So they're good for "fitting in" and looking acceptably normal, but they're not going to impress anyone from the the 4 or 5 bedroom, 2 or 3 bathroom, new car every other year crowd.
I have seen "mansions" pop up in the foreclosure market from time to time. Houses that have been valued between $700k - $1.5M being sold for $50k- $200k. But they're in disrepair and those large houses can quickly get expensive to fix up. And they won't accept financing.
When spouses are treated like children they have a tendency to act like children. I'm not saying that you are doing that, but the way you worded your post makes it sound like she has come up with a problem and it is your responsibility to find a solution.
A wife who cleans up every mess her husband makes is encouraging her husband to be a slob. A husband who refuses to allow his wife to have a hand in the family finances becomes the gatekeeper by permitting/refusing proposed purchases in the same way a parent permits/refuses.
Some couples like this type of relationship. It works for them. It is traditional. Trouble is, it can easily become adversarial. Each person fighting for as much as they can get at the expense of the other.
The nature of ER is beyond what is generally considered normal. It is a goal that both adults in a relationship must agree to, commit to and work towards together. If not, then "normal" will pull the couple away from ER.
A wife who cleans up every mess her husband makes is encouraging her husband to be a slob. A husband who refuses to allow his wife to have a hand in the family finances becomes the gatekeeper by permitting/refusing proposed purchases in the same way a parent permits/refuses.
Some couples like this type of relationship. It works for them. It is traditional. Trouble is, it can easily become adversarial. Each person fighting for as much as they can get at the expense of the other.
The nature of ER is beyond what is generally considered normal. It is a goal that both adults in a relationship must agree to, commit to and work towards together. If not, then "normal" will pull the couple away from ER.
" My wife and I have slowly and happily been moving further and further from dependence on the money economy, to the point where our monthly expenses are less than $600 a month"
Is this $600 total spending for a family of 3? If so, we'd love to hear (in another thread so it doesn't derail this one) about your current spending details and how you got down to that.
Is this $600 total spending for a family of 3? If so, we'd love to hear (in another thread so it doesn't derail this one) about your current spending details and how you got down to that.
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jacob
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"And of course what that means is that in order for them to look upon her as an equal we have to keep the fact that we live in a trailer park on the down-low."
I haven't been a "soccer-mom", but I have lived in a trailer-park and I socialized with, actually mostly, upper/middle-class (lawyers, vets, upper-management, ...). Of the couple that actually saw where I lived, none of them cared (or at least gave any indication thereof) and the majority never knew. I had a much harder problem relating to my neighbors mainly because I was more Lt. Cmdr. Data and they were more Larry The Cable Guy.
In my experience, the main ingredient in "fitting in" is not in the McMansion and the three-car garage.
OTOH, this is not the first time I hear the "I can't be a soccer-mom on ERE"-complaint as it relates to RV park living. There was a long discussion in a blog post once. It basically comes down to the fact that there are people who won't let the kids visit trailer parks because of the stereotypes associated with such park. For sure, I wouldn't let my kids (if I had any) visit the stereotypes either. However, those stereotypes only hold for some people in some parks. There's the stereotype that that people in McMansion-parks (the burbs) are good upstanding citizens, but that is probably not true either.
I haven't been a "soccer-mom", but I have lived in a trailer-park and I socialized with, actually mostly, upper/middle-class (lawyers, vets, upper-management, ...). Of the couple that actually saw where I lived, none of them cared (or at least gave any indication thereof) and the majority never knew. I had a much harder problem relating to my neighbors mainly because I was more Lt. Cmdr. Data and they were more Larry The Cable Guy.
In my experience, the main ingredient in "fitting in" is not in the McMansion and the three-car garage.
OTOH, this is not the first time I hear the "I can't be a soccer-mom on ERE"-complaint as it relates to RV park living. There was a long discussion in a blog post once. It basically comes down to the fact that there are people who won't let the kids visit trailer parks because of the stereotypes associated with such park. For sure, I wouldn't let my kids (if I had any) visit the stereotypes either. However, those stereotypes only hold for some people in some parks. There's the stereotype that that people in McMansion-parks (the burbs) are good upstanding citizens, but that is probably not true either.
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lilacorchid
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I can understand a little of the wanting to fit in with the other parents. We take our kid to an expensive daycare because it's a five minute walk from our house. Maybe the moms in Jags are looking down on me when I walk there, maybe they are jealous I don't have to drive 30 minutes. Who knows.
There must be other families in the group who look like they are "outsiders" (for lack of a better word) too. I have noticed one other family who bikes their kids to my son's daycare/school.
I would also try to figure out why she is suddenly wanting this. My experience is if the queen bee of the McMothers has decided you are an outsider, it doesn't matter if you get a better house, you are still going to be an outsider.
There must be other families in the group who look like they are "outsiders" (for lack of a better word) too. I have noticed one other family who bikes their kids to my son's daycare/school.
I would also try to figure out why she is suddenly wanting this. My experience is if the queen bee of the McMothers has decided you are an outsider, it doesn't matter if you get a better house, you are still going to be an outsider.
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LiquidSapphire
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Christopherjart
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There must be something more happening to go from happy simple lifestyle trailer park living to wanting to have a soccer mom lifestyle.
Who will pay for the lifestyle upgrade?
How will it change your quality time?
How will it chnage retirement plans?
Maybe she is just tired of the trailer park and wants to live somewhere else, but perhaps there is a problem with a current neighbor or one of the new "friends" made a negative comment about people in trailer parks?
Who will pay for the lifestyle upgrade?
How will it change your quality time?
How will it chnage retirement plans?
Maybe she is just tired of the trailer park and wants to live somewhere else, but perhaps there is a problem with a current neighbor or one of the new "friends" made a negative comment about people in trailer parks?
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plantingourpennies
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I grew up in a single-wide trailer; three bedrooms, four adults and two children under 3 when we moved in. Although my family didn't care about what others thought, it was a small space for people who where not ERE inclined.
Might I recommend moving the trailer to your own piece of land?
Advantages:
-You are no longer in a "trailer park", regardless of what sort of structure you actually live in
-All sorts of interesting ERE things can be done more easily on your own property; Jacob may be considering this currently.
-Depending on current RE market, you may see increase in value of the land in the future
-You can do lots of stuff to make the trailer look "pretty"-Back porch, garden, flowers, blah, blah, blah
Disadvantages:
-Takes capital to buy the land, unless you farm or otherwise monetize it it you won't get any returns
-Things that I can't think of right now, but others will
Perhaps this could be where your wife and yourself meet each other halfway.
Best,
Mr. Pop
Might I recommend moving the trailer to your own piece of land?
Advantages:
-You are no longer in a "trailer park", regardless of what sort of structure you actually live in
-All sorts of interesting ERE things can be done more easily on your own property; Jacob may be considering this currently.
-Depending on current RE market, you may see increase in value of the land in the future
-You can do lots of stuff to make the trailer look "pretty"-Back porch, garden, flowers, blah, blah, blah
Disadvantages:
-Takes capital to buy the land, unless you farm or otherwise monetize it it you won't get any returns
-Things that I can't think of right now, but others will
Perhaps this could be where your wife and yourself meet each other halfway.
Best,
Mr. Pop
Well, I suppose you could look into buying a piece of land and putting a "tiny house" on it.
Link: http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/
It would be cheaper than a "McMansion," yet it would enable your wife to attain the appearance of middle-class status. You could always pass off the size of the house as an ecological/socially conscious decision.
However, without getting too personal, why does your wife gets to call the shots on this decision? Especially since moving to a home would require YOU to make a massive lifestyle change by going back to work. How happy are you going to be working to maintain the new lifestyle?
Strong marriages are about compromise, genuine regard for the happiness of both partners, and making decisions together. Whether the two of you work through the issue by yourselves or go to counseling, it sounds like deeper conversation is in order.
Link: http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/
It would be cheaper than a "McMansion," yet it would enable your wife to attain the appearance of middle-class status. You could always pass off the size of the house as an ecological/socially conscious decision.
However, without getting too personal, why does your wife gets to call the shots on this decision? Especially since moving to a home would require YOU to make a massive lifestyle change by going back to work. How happy are you going to be working to maintain the new lifestyle?
Strong marriages are about compromise, genuine regard for the happiness of both partners, and making decisions together. Whether the two of you work through the issue by yourselves or go to counseling, it sounds like deeper conversation is in order.
@2HandBand
I can relate to your situation somewhat. I have a wife and two kids. My wife doesn't work.
In our area, we took the approach of buying a small house in foreclosure that needed some work and has some problems. We had to fix the holes in the walls, all of carpet and flooring was completely shot, we installed a mostly new kitchen, etc.
But we bought the house not because we wanted a house, but because it was the cheapest long term solution for us. The trailer parks in our area have lot rental fees of $250-300 /month. Plus you have to buy the trailer as well. My property taxes are $60 /month. I paid less than 30k for my house. So in my mind, in my area, buying a cheap house vs a trailer is kind of like having a 30k investment that generates $200 /month guaranteed tax free income.
I think there are several other areas where you can buy small foreclosed houses for under 30k in decent neighborhoods. I think it is an option you could consider. That or buying your own piece of land and simply parking your trailer on it. Since you already have the trailer that may be an even cheaper solution.
P.S. What's your secret for keeping expenses under $600 /month for a family of three? That's pretty impressive!
I can relate to your situation somewhat. I have a wife and two kids. My wife doesn't work.
In our area, we took the approach of buying a small house in foreclosure that needed some work and has some problems. We had to fix the holes in the walls, all of carpet and flooring was completely shot, we installed a mostly new kitchen, etc.
But we bought the house not because we wanted a house, but because it was the cheapest long term solution for us. The trailer parks in our area have lot rental fees of $250-300 /month. Plus you have to buy the trailer as well. My property taxes are $60 /month. I paid less than 30k for my house. So in my mind, in my area, buying a cheap house vs a trailer is kind of like having a 30k investment that generates $200 /month guaranteed tax free income.
I think there are several other areas where you can buy small foreclosed houses for under 30k in decent neighborhoods. I think it is an option you could consider. That or buying your own piece of land and simply parking your trailer on it. Since you already have the trailer that may be an even cheaper solution.
P.S. What's your secret for keeping expenses under $600 /month for a family of three? That's pretty impressive!