ERE City (US)

All the different ways of solving the shelter problem. To be static or mobile? Roots, legs, or wheels?
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jennypenny
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Post by jennypenny »

@Mirwen--sorry, I did mean Canadian Vancouver. I promise I'll wear my glasses when reading posts from now on.
College towns can also provide access to good medical care and sometimes dental care. Dental care can be very inexpensive if you're willing to let students perform the work.
College towns also have a subculture of people basically living on stipends. I believe the average grad school stipend is about the same budget you would aim for with ERE. That means the town would offer low cost housing/food/entertainment. And imagine the freecycling going on at the end of every semester. Access to sporting events and clubs might also be better and cheaper.


dragoncar
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Post by dragoncar »

I agree that "college town" is high on the list, for stability, culture, etc. There has been recent talk, however, of an "education bubble." We might want to consider the robustness of any particular college in the face of decreasing enrollment.
Having lived in Pittsburgh, I think it's a good ERE candidate... it's freaking cold, though.
Anyone want access to a large body of water?


jacob
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Post by jacob »

Given the secular death of the interstate trucking system and commercial flights due to peak oil, I would like access to a large body of water to connects to the ocean in one way or another.


Chad
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Post by Chad »

Kevin and Hoplite covered some good reasons. Hoplite's final one, "the stream of newcomers will keep the town from turning into one of those godforsaken places where all the children leave by the age of 18 and the residents sit on their porches with shotguns in their laps, hoping the creek doesn't run dry and ruin the crops :)"
That is a huge reason I like college towns. Plus, the college usually brings in enough money to make the town a little nicer than other similarly sized towns.
Also, I would like to audit some courses in retirement.
Two college towns I was looking at, though haven't been to yet, are Eugene, OR and Burlington, VT. Though, because I'm doing ER and not ERE I don't have to find the absolute lowest cost place to live.


jacob
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Post by jacob »

I looked at Durham, NH, which is a college town/town next to a college. It has everything Seabrook has (except the beach, but it still has water access). Also, it's a 10m bike ride from Portsmouth Int airport. The downside is significant property taxes and that it's far from Boston (for those who need easy job access).


rjack
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Post by rjack »

Does it make any sense to cross-reference potential cities with the top 50 bicycling cities?
http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured- ... ngs-top-50


B
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Post by B »

@rjack
I live in Lawrence, KS. It's a college town (University of Kansas). Here's how it measures up with your criteria.
1) Local farms for food sources

Yes.
2) Easy to bicycle

Yes, if you are located in the downtown area. Everyone I know is.
3) Warm climate (no snow)

No. It is very warm in summer, and very cold in winter. Plenty of snow. Not a great climate.
4) Low taxes

Not sure on this one.
5) Gay friendly (I have a gay son and I want him to visit. Also, I consider Gay friendly a proxy for open-minded/liberal).

As far as Kansas goes, yes. I know many homosexual people who like Lawrence for this reason.
6) Good soil for vegetable gardening

Yes.
7) Affordable housing

Renting, yes. As a college town, there are plenty of kids that drive the prices down. However, buying a place here seems to be quite expensive.


chilly
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Post by chilly »

How about Salinas, CA? Extremely cheap housing, very walkable, beautiful year round climate, great farming land, airport, drivable beaches and mountains. It does have an incredibly high violent crime rate though - we may need to form our own gang. Are you down with Los Frugales?
I like the idea of NH too. I think it's the best bet in New England, and I do like New England. You will pay more in health insurance, property taxes (if you own), and obviously heating (if you stay there year round) than somewhere like FL or NV. Even on a modest (but not extremely hard core ERE) $100k house, that is definitely worth a few $1k's difference per year.
Very rural areas are cheaper, but have the vehicle tradeoff - but may be a good options if you plan on keeping a car anyway. I personally admire the non-car lifestyle, but like to venture farther from home day to day, so plan to keep one.
College towns do seem to be more stable, more interesting, more landlord friendly, but also a bit more expensive.
Winters in NH are definitely cold (I'm in mid-north VT), summers are heaven on earth, and although the season's short, you can have a very successfully garden.
From what I've seen, purely financially, FL and NV (Reno, Carson City) seem to be about the best bets. That said, I'm not convinced I'm interested in living in either.
@Chad - Burlington is great, but very expensive on so many levels.
City data does rule btw. It's the best first stop to check out any new place. Climate, crime, cost, then links to threads discussing that location.
Also this site is great for climate comparisons:

http://hurricane.ncdc.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ ... h&subrnum=


BeyondtheWrap
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Post by BeyondtheWrap »

Those of you saying a town of 5K is walkable: are you speaking from experience, or just guessing?
@Jacob: You said you want to be near a port because of peak oil. But wouldn't that also be a risk due to the rise in water level due to global warming? Or is that not soon enough to be a concern?
I'm not sure we really could come up with something everyone would agree on. So much comes down to personal preference. Especially, it depends what kind of things you want to do in retirement. For example, if you're like Jacob and want to go sailing and do martial arts, it would be important that your retirement location has those activities.


jacob
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Post by jacob »

My experience with walkable 5k towns is admittedly European. At 5k, no matter where you live in the town, you can walk to "downtown" in 15 minutes. For a 150k city, downtown prices are insane, and if you life in the outskirts, you'll be walking for an hour to get to downtown. European cities are generally not laid out for cars. I could imagine something that would classify as a 5k US town being one highway with a strip mall and some scattered subdivisions. On the other hand, I could also imagine some traditional layouts, particularly in the NE.
The main climate change concern with coastal towns on the eastern seaboard is increased hurricane risk. As long as you're not right at the beach or the land is not very flat (Florida Keyes), some feet of water rise over the next century is no biggie.


jacob
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Post by jacob »

After 2 days of "house hunting" experience, here are my preliminary criteria
1) I use google maps to pick out candidates. I look for some degree of water (could be a lake), some degree of forestation, and some degree of urbanization. Maybe 1/3 of each.
2) Then I go to craigslist real estate and look for housing in the 50,000 to 100,000 range. Some of you rich guys who intend to spend an extravagant $10,000 per year may be willing to pay more, but I'm not :) This will exclude some areas where housing in that range simply does not exist.
3) Then I go to the city-data forums and try to dig up dirt.
4) Then I post the candidate here.


eric
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Post by eric »

You guys should check out Salt Lake City. SLC is a really DIY type of place. The Mormons keep it from being overrun like the Front Range of Colorado. There are a ton of trails, and SLC is 4-5 hours away, at most, from millions of acres of federal lands and parks. Cost of living is higher than it used to be, but still cheap by most city standards. Lots of tech companies are here like Adobe and Ebay and Oracle. There is an international airport and free concerts all summer, sometimes with pretty good headliners. TRAX can get you most places along the Wasatch Front, and there is a bus system as well. Tons of cyclists live here, too. There is also a growing home-brewing scene. All in all, I like this place very much for a city.


Hoplite
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Post by Hoplite »


Some of you rich guys who intend to spend an extravagant $10,000 per year may be willing to pay more, but I'm not :) This will exclude some areas where housing in that range simply does not exist.

Yet?
Some research for Durham, NH--it's serviced by the Amtrak Downeaster which runs from Portland ME to Boston. About an hour and a half by train from Durham to Boston, one way full price about $18, but passes and discounts are available (the monthly unlimited commuter pass is just under $300)

http://www.amtrakdowneaster.com/multi-r ... ter-passes
The preliminary searching certainly looks sound for screening, but in terms of choices I can't help but be reminded of a scene from the movie Madagascar, where the penguins commandeer a ship to head for Antarctica; a penguin paradise with a 24/7 sushi buffet. And then they arrive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWan5MgmhsI


jacob
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Post by jacob »

The problem with expensive houses in NH is the high real estate tax. I have to factor that in on a 3% withdrawal basis and add it to the house price to get the effective price.
So a 100k house with 4k in annual taxes is effectively a 233k house.
Other than that, Durham, NH looks really good.


jacob
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Post by jacob »

Dumb question: On trulia I see condos selling for several tens of thousands. Is there a monthly condo fee on top of this? How do I find out what that fee is?


AlexK
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Post by AlexK »

All condos have association fees. Usually the fee amount is shown in the MLS listing. I use www.listingbook.com to see the MLS listings in my area.


Hoplite
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Post by Hoplite »

@Jacob,
In Trulia, look below the listing info, there is almost always a link to "view more details". The listing will almost always list condo/coop (maintenance) fees; if it doesn't then it's likely you don't want to know. Condo and coop fees are treacherous business. I've seen prime Park Avenue apartments being almost given away because the overall burden of the building/complex falls on those who can still pay. If the pool shrinks, the fees skyrocket. Years ago, a coop owner at the Dakota (John Lennon's last residence) tried to give away a 3 bedroom unit to anyone willing to take over the maintenance. No takers (back then).
I would have responded sooner, but as I was reading your piece in Intesting Times, getting to the energy part, the power went out (something underground caught fire next door). Yet another spooky coincindence.


jacob
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Post by jacob »

Dumb question 2: If there are condo fees are there real estate taxes as well or are they subsumed into the fee?


Hoplite
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Post by Hoplite »

If the ownership type is condominium, the taxes are usually not subsumed in the condo fee (the condo fee will pay the pro-rated taxes on the common areas). Sometimes, a realtor will combine both; it will be stated as maintenance or carrying charges "55% tax deductable", i.e., the unit owner's portion of the deductible property tax.
Not all listings are forthcoming; another important consideration is what the condo fee covers. Some will cover heat, some all utilities and some no utilities for the individual unit. Special assessments are another problem; new roof for example. Unless stated in the listing, to get to that level of detail you usually have to be interested enough to call/email the broker.


DividendGuy
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Post by DividendGuy »

I have looked into condos many times due to my preference of maintenance-free living and being around people. The condo fees can be quite a drag, especially when you're including that as part of a portfolio of expenses (property tax, interior maintenance/repairs, mortgage, etc.). Assessments are another thing. Down here in FL, there have been a few publicized cases of extreme assessments due to the fact that there are so many vacant units and therefore fewer residents to spread the costs between. Buyer beware. I know of one case where each resident was assessed over $5k all in one shot because the foundation of the pool split and the vendor that warrantied it went out of business. Add that $5k on top of your usual dues and bills and that could be quite an ERE-unfriendly situation.
All the same, I continue to rent.


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