I like the idea of forest land. However, I never seriously considered it because I thought it would take a lot of land to cut, plant, and grow enough trees to support the energy requirements of living, but the more I think, if you combine this with a small living space that is insulated well I don't see why this couldn't be an option. I will have to research how much land this would require for the X BTU for living.
The small cruise ship idea is interesting, but I don't imagine enough people willing to make the leap. I also think this would be expensive if we actually traveled much between the fuel and docking/mooring fees. There is also the logistics of food delivery and deciding how to divide this up.
Off grid RV/Trailer ideas?
I had spent time detailing my calculations but then hit RSS feed on accident and lost it all, so I will give you the highlights.
@ 0.43 KWH/day this would be my refrigerator http://www.sunfrost.com/vaccine_refrigerators.html
After doing calculations that include conduction/convection/fresh air heating/cooling (the minimum 15 cfm/person) for a 7 x 10 x 8 foot tall trailer (maybe too small)with 0.5 feet of extruded polystyrene insulation, I decided off grid is possible for people with plenty of sunsine in warmer year round temps (though maybe not with my ROI goal).
The country gets about 2-9 KWH/M^2/day so if you live near the 9 you could cool this trailer from 110 to 77 F and power the refrigerator with under 2 M^2 of solar panels assuming you could convert that energy directly into cooling energy. I think is was 0.9 KWH for every hour.
However, if you need to go from -25 to 57 F then you will need about 5 to 24 M^2 of solar panels! So I have not yet thought of a good solution for extremely cold areas (unless you own several acres of forest). It doesn't help that cold areas get less from the sun. I think the energy requirement was 1.93 KWH for every hour.
My calculations used outside wind convection of 30 mph and inside air flow of 7 mph (probably too high). It analyzed all area as a flat plate and did not include solar load (assuming it would be blocked by the solar panels). Only 15 cfm of fresh air and 60 square feet of window space.
I still have not looked into the battery requirements, but I like where my calculation are headed if I move locations for ERE. This doesn't even consider the coolerado technology that might power all cooling with well water (you could use the solar panels to pump water).
@ 0.43 KWH/day this would be my refrigerator http://www.sunfrost.com/vaccine_refrigerators.html
After doing calculations that include conduction/convection/fresh air heating/cooling (the minimum 15 cfm/person) for a 7 x 10 x 8 foot tall trailer (maybe too small)with 0.5 feet of extruded polystyrene insulation, I decided off grid is possible for people with plenty of sunsine in warmer year round temps (though maybe not with my ROI goal).
The country gets about 2-9 KWH/M^2/day so if you live near the 9 you could cool this trailer from 110 to 77 F and power the refrigerator with under 2 M^2 of solar panels assuming you could convert that energy directly into cooling energy. I think is was 0.9 KWH for every hour.
However, if you need to go from -25 to 57 F then you will need about 5 to 24 M^2 of solar panels! So I have not yet thought of a good solution for extremely cold areas (unless you own several acres of forest). It doesn't help that cold areas get less from the sun. I think the energy requirement was 1.93 KWH for every hour.
My calculations used outside wind convection of 30 mph and inside air flow of 7 mph (probably too high). It analyzed all area as a flat plate and did not include solar load (assuming it would be blocked by the solar panels). Only 15 cfm of fresh air and 60 square feet of window space.
I still have not looked into the battery requirements, but I like where my calculation are headed if I move locations for ERE. This doesn't even consider the coolerado technology that might power all cooling with well water (you could use the solar panels to pump water).
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George the original one
- Posts: 5406
- Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
- Location: Wettest corner of Orygun
I think that avoiding utility bills is totally doable as long as your usage is low. Living on a sailboat, we went without refrigeration at all (April to the following January). I no longer consider refrigeration a requirement, though it is convenient to be able to store leftovers.
Our current sailboat has a small solar panel on deck to power our running lights, two interior lights, and bilge pumps. There is no AC (shore power) system even if we wanted to hook up. We are yet to move aboard this boat full time, but we don't expect it to be a problem. When cruising previously we went to sleep soon after dark, wore long underwear/went farther south in the winter, and hung out in free, climate controlled places like libraries.
Usually we could fill up our water for free at fuel docks, but we also hauled water everyday in gallon jugs during times when we were not burning any gas. I think you would still need to expect to pay for some gas when traveling by sailboat unless you are infinitely patient. Although, strangely enough, some incarnations of our boat came with oarlocks so that it could be rowed rather that powered by an outboard.
We expect our utilities on this winter's cruise to be confined to propane for cooking and some gas for our time in confined waterways. (and water after reaching the Bahamas) I am also interested in learning more about solar cooking to reduce propane costs.
Our current sailboat has a small solar panel on deck to power our running lights, two interior lights, and bilge pumps. There is no AC (shore power) system even if we wanted to hook up. We are yet to move aboard this boat full time, but we don't expect it to be a problem. When cruising previously we went to sleep soon after dark, wore long underwear/went farther south in the winter, and hung out in free, climate controlled places like libraries.
Usually we could fill up our water for free at fuel docks, but we also hauled water everyday in gallon jugs during times when we were not burning any gas. I think you would still need to expect to pay for some gas when traveling by sailboat unless you are infinitely patient. Although, strangely enough, some incarnations of our boat came with oarlocks so that it could be rowed rather that powered by an outboard.
We expect our utilities on this winter's cruise to be confined to propane for cooking and some gas for our time in confined waterways. (and water after reaching the Bahamas) I am also interested in learning more about solar cooking to reduce propane costs.
@Matthew: here's an interesting trailer example:
http://cheaprvliving.com/StealthCargoTrailer.html
As Jacob mentioned in another post, it's a website with some nifty examples.
http://cheaprvliving.com/StealthCargoTrailer.html
As Jacob mentioned in another post, it's a website with some nifty examples.