Early Retirement Extreme Forums

I am German and married to a Canadian. We currently live in Berlin (Germany). Though we are enjoying the high tech pay, we can't imagine living there forever. Also due to the increasing temperature and due to the fact that summer is getting almost unlivable there.

I did a bit of research and looked for higher latitude places in Canada and was wondering if there is a Canadian in this forum who can recommend ressources or even places to move to in about 5 years.

We are looking for either a farm or a smaller urban city where we can grow our own food and maybe even have animals. I grew up in the country side myself and don't want my kids not have the rich experience of nature.

Any pin pointing to people/sites/places/ressources are very welcome!

Newfoundland is one of the greatest place i visited, and probably cheap.

If you explore the coast between Sault Ste Marie and Sudbury, ON, you will find a number of smaller towns that might work for you.

You can in theory farm in NL, but it gets a lot of cloud, so I wouldn't expect it to be the most productive land. Nearly everywhere on the East Coast is cheap to buy land, although you'll have higher income taxes / HST than anywhere else. While the winter is relatively warm (comparable to averages in Berlin, maybe a little colder), you would need to like or at least tolerate snow, as there is lots of it in the winter (snow, melt, snow, melt, etc). The summers are great / quite moderate, although can feel quite brief some years.

Ontario can get just as hot as Berlin in the summer, and much colder in the winter. The prairies are similar. Outside the GTA, and other major urban centres, this country is either grain fields or trees, depending on where you are. Well, that and tundra in the far north.

I'm not Canadian, but ...

I think you would (or at least I would) want to go to BC. The Pacific North West is the best place to be climate-wise on the north-American continent. It's not too warm in the summer and not too cold in the winter compared to the middle of the continent which has much wider temperature swings. Climate change will also heat the center of the continents much more than the coast lines. You can figure 2-3x the quoted global average. The solution here is not moving into the arctic, because you still have to deal with cold winters even if summer heat waves are getting nasty. Freezing because heating fuels are rationed/get too expensive is just as bad. Finally, due to the polar amplification effect, you can expect the climate to change much faster the farther north you go (add that to the continental effect). This means nature visibly/noticeably changing on a decadal scale (this could be depressing to watch).

Add: Since climate will be changing rapidly in the polar regions, pay attention to whether the local industry/livelihoods is dependent on nature because as nature changes/dies the industry will change/die with it. This will materially impact that tax-basis/economy of the area.

@jacob, I'm not sure if anywhere in BC will be as cheap as the East Coast. Anything in BC near the coast probably costs a fortune -- so, *maybe* something like Prince George? That has a similar temperate range to say, Nova Scotia, so perhaps it isn't too far from the ocean to get the moderating effect. That said, you can probably get a lot more bang for your buck land wise in PEI, Nova Scotia or New Brunswick. Maybe the latter if you are worried about rising sea levels and hurricanes.

jacob wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:58 am

I'm not Canadian, but ...

I think you would (or at least I would) want to go to BC. The Pacific North West is the best place to be climate-wise on the north-American continent. It's not too warm in the summer and not too cold in the winter compared to the middle of the continent which has much wider temperature swings.

Hey we're trying to not publicize that around here! Besides, at least one model I saw predicted even more rain for me in the coast range than I get now. Less snow pack in the Cascades won't affect me, the coast range never has any to speak of.

I'm in the same boat, trying to find cheaper places to live in Canada (I am currently in Toronto). Jacob I don't know if BC is a good idea because of the wildfires, and this summer the wildfire smoke traveled to neighboring provinces as well. Personally I like Ontario, Quebec, and Newfoundland (although they do have some hurricanes here and there) and I've been looking at smaller cities like Windsor or London since I don't want to farm.

London is very nice, on a river, and surrounded by a good deal of farm-land and windmills. The homeless people there look like average people who live in Colorado, except they are still smoking cigarettes. However, bit pricey compared to similar in Michigan.

Mike Rosehart (the guy who interviewed me on youtube recently) lives in London. I'll bring you a report eventually.

Windmills are good, but farmland and rivers are nontrivial. Much of the midwestern depend on rainfall for their water, whereas farmland on the great plains is irrigation driven. Ironically, the great plains are therefore more robust towards climate change, at least until the aquifers are run down. The midwest might be able to compensate by building their own water systems ... similar to how the Colorado River feeds much of the southwest. Speaking of Rivers ... if you're at the end of the river (hello LA) you're probably SOL as the river will no longer reach its destination.

Anywhere around the Great Lakes are good (on the US side, check out Buffalo, NY), but keep in mind that the center of the continent will see much more climate induced change than the western coast line. It therefore needs more capital investment to compensate.

jacob wrote:the center of the continent will see much more climate induced change than the western coast line. It therefore needs more capital investment to compensate.

True, so the anti-fragile move is towards polyculture. During my brief employment at mega-garden center, it was interesting to note how many people still wait until Memorial Day to plant anything. It can be blazing 88 degrees and somebody will be transplanting pansies in full-sun at noon. Obviously, professional mega-farmers aren't likely to do anything idiotic like that, but the rigidity of the industrialized system in which they have been forced to participate puts them at some degree of similar risk. They can't just walk out on to their porch on groundhog day, sniff out that maybe it will be a poor year for sugar beets, and then decide to switch over their entire production plan. OTOH, an individual who is simply concerned with producing enough food of some/any kind to feed maybe 4 people on average can much more easily switch gears.

It looks like Ireland is the best able country to feed its people at the moment and after climate and natural resource risks:

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-food-security/

@tonyedgecombe - ironically a beneficial legacy of the famine; it's population has never recovered from its pre-famine peak.

Here are a few thoughts I'd like to add to the discussion..

Climate change is one factor of many in choosing a place to live. There are social conditions, local economy, tax base, public services available, safety, affordable housing, politics etc. Asking which city or place is climate change friendly and deciding on that basis alone for where to live is like asking which celebrity has the nicest nose and then deciding to go buy all the movies they are in. Wouldn't you like to take a look at the whole person/city before you decide instead of focusing on just one factor? Also, by asking other people, everyone has an opinion and all are right and wrong at the same time. Kind of like asking which Stock do you recommend for a 30 year holding?

Also, if you are looking into climate change, well first look at climate. What seems normal to me might seem unlivable to foreigners. (Too cloudy, too rainy, too cold, too hot, etc) I could not imagine living in the SW USA desert for instance. Too hot for me, but for locals it is normal. Here where I live last Winter we had -50 C Windchill days around Christmas and we live close to the US Border. Normal here but for most of the world's population, very dangerous. Frostbite can be very dangerous. Also, nature..some places stable in temperature for climate change might have an influx of deer ticks with climate change possibilities from other nearby regions.

I couldn't handle the heat and humidity of southern Ontario and moved to PEI which is more temperate than Nova Scotia or New Brunswick and has better farm land than Newfoundland. I bought a place 12 meters above sea level and wonder if that's high enough up, but I figure it should probably be fine for my lifetime and maybe my son's. I sold my overpriced house in Ontario and bought a far nicer one here for one third the cost. Last I checked, PEI has the lowest real estate costs in the country. Salaries are low here, but that doesn't matter so much if one is FI. I do substitute teach which pays reasonably well and sometimes write for a content mill to pad my net worth.

@BPA
How are you finding it living on PEI, coming from what I assume was in or around a big city? I've been pondering a move to the Maritimes and am curious how it's working out for you wrt things like grocery prices and selection, medical care, island fever (I know there's been a bridge for a couple of decades now and it's a pretty big island, but still...), heating costs, ease of finding a social circle, and so on. Any insight from a transplant would be appreciated!

The biggest (negative) lifestyle changes for me would be having to get a car (I would think) and finally knowing what real winter is (and learning how to drive in it). But other than that, I think it would be an improvement on where I am now.

@JuliusFC
I love PEI. I currently live in Summerside and originally lived in Hamilton. Insurance is way cheaper. I pay about a third less for my home owner's insurance here. And my partner pays about a third of what he did for car insurance. Property tax is a bit cheaper. I'm currently paying $2k a year. I own a pretty big place because five adults live here. It's a duplex. I was paying more than that for my small semi in Hamilton. And I love that the city removes the snow from the sidewalks here. That didn't happen in Hamilton. Grocery prices are about the same except for dairy products. They are more but they are far superior in quality, so I don't mind.

There is a doctor shortage, but I am keeping my own records and using a really great Walk In Clinic in Charlottetown. I almost don't mind the wait for a family doctor because it's really good. The cost of heating is crazy compared to Hamilton. In Hamilton I spent about $60 a month for heating. My first month here (before I had a chance to put heat pumps in and was relying on oil) was $800!!! Now it's more like $400 a month in the winter. Not great but luckily I have roommates to help share that bill. I've heard that minihomes are fairly cheap to heat.

I don't feel isolated at all being on the island. I do think the bridge helps. My partner was working in Nova Scotia and coming home weekends last winter and I worried about the bridge being closed, but that didn't happen when he was traveling back here luckily. It also helps that there is an airport only an hour away. I never feel trapped.

We had been spending our summers here for eight years before we move and already had friends, so that made socializing easier. But we have made other friends since we've been here. I think the key is to live near Charlottetown or Summerside for that, but I do find Islanders friendly.

Other than cheap real estate, one of the other reasons I chose Summerside was because it is so walkable. No part of it is more than 35 minutes away from where I live and it's incredibly well-serviced. That's important to me since I don't drive. We have a hospital, a small college, several grocery stores, a library, a Farmers' Market, a Service Canada and the PEI equivalent, a movie theatre, a live theatre, and pretty much any amenity found in a much bigger city. Summerside services the west end of the island, so that's how a place with a population of 15,000 manages to be so well-serviced. There is a Walk In Clinic here too, but it is really horrible.

One thing about PEI, and this is getting better, but it's very white. That took a bit of getting used to. I am white but am used to living in more multicultural places.

We get quite a bit of snow here, but it's really great that the city clears the sidewalks. In many ways that is better than Hamilton where people just wouldn't bother and that made walking everywhere more difficult.

The resale market here is pricey. I'm more likely to buy at a second hand place when I visit Ontario than try to get good deals here.

The pace of life here is far more relaxed. I love it.

Another nice place down east is Kentville, NS which is where my partner lived last year. Nearby Wolfville is also nice. House prices are pretty decent there too.

If you decide you ever want to check this place out, send me a message and I can show you around. My brother, my partner, and I are all happier living here.

@BPA
Thank you so much for all the information. This is great stuff!

I'm planning to be in the Maritimes in early September so will definitely ping you closer to the date.