9 mins
https://vimeo.com/231701977
Martin
Re: Martin
brute doesn't really buy into the romanticization of homelessness.
Re: Martin
Or maybe he has some little savings which he lives of? Or did it state that he is dependend on other people's support?
He could also have little income streams collecting bottles or dumpster diving ...
He could also have little income streams collecting bottles or dumpster diving ...
Re: Martin
He doesn't sound Irish to me. I think there is a mental health component to someone who sleeps like that in a city.
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George the original one
- Posts: 5406
- Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
- Location: Wettest corner of Orygun
Re: Martin
As long as our economy is based on consumerism, we all need consumers to be wasteful in order to supply our needs. Not just Martin.
Re: Martin
how so?George the original one wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:13 pmAs long as our economy is based on consumerism, we all need consumers to be wasteful in order to supply our needs.
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George the original one
- Posts: 5406
- Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
- Location: Wettest corner of Orygun
Re: Martin
If you're retired, you're likely living off investments that are the result of business profits and most business profits are the result of consumers being wasteful.BRUTE wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:40 pmhow so?George the original one wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:13 pmAs long as our economy is based on consumerism, we all need consumers to be wasteful in order to supply our needs.
If you're not yet retired, then you're working, directly or indirectly, to skim monies from consumers being wasteful.
Re: Martin
but in a society less focused on consumerism, the profits would instead come less from waste, and more from other (productive? meaningful?) spending. so while brute thinks it's fair to say that to the degree the economy is wasteful, the average portfolio is probably based on that waste, the portfolio could shift to not-as-wasteful if the economy shifted.
Re: Martin
I was struck by the fact that the way Martin spends his days is very much like how I spend my days when I travel for business with my BF, except for the fact that I scavenge my breakfast from the free hotel buffet, and every evening is like Christmas, because my BF takes me out when he is done with his uber-productive workday. However, I don't look like a homeless person when I am wandering around the public library, because I carry a very nice bag and wear my hair in a very neat French braid 
Three of my favorite books are "The Scavenger's Manifesto", "The Art and Science of Dumpster Diving", and "The Discard Market: Your Way to Wealth." Production and Consumption are inherently wasteful, by definition, not moral judgment. That's why ecosystems also include Decomposers, such as mushrooms, and scavengers such as Vultures. The complications of nuclear power put aside, the only source of energy any of us have ultimately is the Sun. Human beings are greatly flexible in their behaviors, so we are capable of inserting ourselves into all sorts of loops of flows in all sorts of ways, but not inclusive of the ability to photosynthesize (yet.) However, there is some pretty good evidence that our initial niche was mainly Scavenger. We ate fruit from trees that grow at the edge of woodland and field, and we broke open and gnawed, sucked the marrow from bones left behind by stronger Predator-Consumers.
Recent research in the embodied mind and mimetics would also indicate that there is a tendency for humans to be able to identify and learn from the successful behaviors of members of other species, and to self-identify in various ways with members of other species. So, for instance, I once read the memoir of a very successful stock trader, who repeatedly described himself and his behavior as being natural and unavoidable because he was a predator. Other humans might envision their strategy as being more like that of a Beaver or a Squirrel, busy building supportive structures (kind of interesting to note that we use the word "plant" to mean center of human industrial production) or saving/hiding nuts for the long winter. A beautiful young girl in a bright yellow dress, might be semi-consciously thinking of her role as being like that of a bright flower drawing bees, as she sits in the bar in relaxed anticipation that somebody else is likely to offer to buy her a drink. Martin might think of himself as being more like a Mobile Mushroom.
One of the primary reasons why Martin seems happy is his lifestyle includes walking around in the fresh air and sunshine for a good part of most of his days. Thoreau was in the habit of walking in nature for 4 hours/day. It seems like this is a very "natural" healthy human behavior, which many people who otherwise feel compelled to work for most of the day, must attempt to more efficiently replicate by running on a treadmill at a gym and occasionally taking vacations to beaches. His social interactions seem to be limited to feeding members of a different species and reading the words of other humans in books, but that is likely just reflective of a more introverted personality, not necessarily financial limitations. Many members of this forum who work hard and have plenty of money exhibit similar social behavior.
IOW, there is no ecosystem, or economy within an ecosystem, that is not inclusive of production, consumption and decomposition. Our perspective of living in a wasteful culture is based on strong preference for survival of human species and current dependence on limited resource of petroleum and regulations supporting the competitive advantage of individuals within social structures such as condominium-residence-associations, school districts, and nation-states. IOW, I would assume that ffj would support the library millage if books were to be used for increasing literacy/productivity of otherwise underprivileged children/future-workers in his community, but not solely for the entertainment of Mobile-Mushroom types such as Martin, or myself (sigh.)
Three of my favorite books are "The Scavenger's Manifesto", "The Art and Science of Dumpster Diving", and "The Discard Market: Your Way to Wealth." Production and Consumption are inherently wasteful, by definition, not moral judgment. That's why ecosystems also include Decomposers, such as mushrooms, and scavengers such as Vultures. The complications of nuclear power put aside, the only source of energy any of us have ultimately is the Sun. Human beings are greatly flexible in their behaviors, so we are capable of inserting ourselves into all sorts of loops of flows in all sorts of ways, but not inclusive of the ability to photosynthesize (yet.) However, there is some pretty good evidence that our initial niche was mainly Scavenger. We ate fruit from trees that grow at the edge of woodland and field, and we broke open and gnawed, sucked the marrow from bones left behind by stronger Predator-Consumers.
Recent research in the embodied mind and mimetics would also indicate that there is a tendency for humans to be able to identify and learn from the successful behaviors of members of other species, and to self-identify in various ways with members of other species. So, for instance, I once read the memoir of a very successful stock trader, who repeatedly described himself and his behavior as being natural and unavoidable because he was a predator. Other humans might envision their strategy as being more like that of a Beaver or a Squirrel, busy building supportive structures (kind of interesting to note that we use the word "plant" to mean center of human industrial production) or saving/hiding nuts for the long winter. A beautiful young girl in a bright yellow dress, might be semi-consciously thinking of her role as being like that of a bright flower drawing bees, as she sits in the bar in relaxed anticipation that somebody else is likely to offer to buy her a drink. Martin might think of himself as being more like a Mobile Mushroom.
One of the primary reasons why Martin seems happy is his lifestyle includes walking around in the fresh air and sunshine for a good part of most of his days. Thoreau was in the habit of walking in nature for 4 hours/day. It seems like this is a very "natural" healthy human behavior, which many people who otherwise feel compelled to work for most of the day, must attempt to more efficiently replicate by running on a treadmill at a gym and occasionally taking vacations to beaches. His social interactions seem to be limited to feeding members of a different species and reading the words of other humans in books, but that is likely just reflective of a more introverted personality, not necessarily financial limitations. Many members of this forum who work hard and have plenty of money exhibit similar social behavior.
IOW, there is no ecosystem, or economy within an ecosystem, that is not inclusive of production, consumption and decomposition. Our perspective of living in a wasteful culture is based on strong preference for survival of human species and current dependence on limited resource of petroleum and regulations supporting the competitive advantage of individuals within social structures such as condominium-residence-associations, school districts, and nation-states. IOW, I would assume that ffj would support the library millage if books were to be used for increasing literacy/productivity of otherwise underprivileged children/future-workers in his community, but not solely for the entertainment of Mobile-Mushroom types such as Martin, or myself (sigh.)
Re: Martin
@ffj:
Oh, I don't think you are at all heartless. In fact, I think the "will teach to fish, but won't give endless fish"/ promote opportunity over entitlements, economic philosophy is better than a number of alternatives, and is inclusive of the altruistic notion that all humans are not always and everywhere able to function without any access to social assistance.
I hate to keep bringing up the example of my 77 year old friend with net worth over $70 million, but he is such an odd outlier in many ways, his choices sort of highlight some issues. I was asking him for advice related to the situation of my sister's psychiatric break-down because his long-term GF suffers from similar draining problems, and he said "You have to help her, because she is your sister. " When I prodded him further about his own functioning in that regard, because clearly impossible to amass such wealth starting from nothing at age 27 and simultaneously exhibit unbridled financial altruism, he said "Well, you have to choose the two or three people you are going to help." And, it struck me that his functioning in this regard was very similar to my exercise in determining how many people I would feed with my perma-culture project, and who those people might be. I initially defined success as ability to provide enough lbs. of food to theoretically feed myself and one theoretical, not yet born, grandchild of approximately age 7.
There is no long-term (multi-generational) sustainable human systems design that does not take into account care for those who can not care for themselves. That's why I maintain a Sesame Street Socialist streak in my otherwise Libertarian philosophy. No human is born as a fully formed character in an Ayn Rand novel. IOW, the pure Libertarian solution is sterile and doomed to extinction, but the pure Socialist model is like a pit of quicksand full of giant babies. The Conservative Republican Model is a bit too reliant on tough love and archaic science, "Ooh, spank me Daddy, 'cause I ate the pudding first." for my taste or from my perspective, but it isn't entirely dysfunctional. IOW, I think it is inclusive of "feed self and maybe a 7 year old human too."
Oh, I don't think you are at all heartless. In fact, I think the "will teach to fish, but won't give endless fish"/ promote opportunity over entitlements, economic philosophy is better than a number of alternatives, and is inclusive of the altruistic notion that all humans are not always and everywhere able to function without any access to social assistance.
I hate to keep bringing up the example of my 77 year old friend with net worth over $70 million, but he is such an odd outlier in many ways, his choices sort of highlight some issues. I was asking him for advice related to the situation of my sister's psychiatric break-down because his long-term GF suffers from similar draining problems, and he said "You have to help her, because she is your sister. " When I prodded him further about his own functioning in that regard, because clearly impossible to amass such wealth starting from nothing at age 27 and simultaneously exhibit unbridled financial altruism, he said "Well, you have to choose the two or three people you are going to help." And, it struck me that his functioning in this regard was very similar to my exercise in determining how many people I would feed with my perma-culture project, and who those people might be. I initially defined success as ability to provide enough lbs. of food to theoretically feed myself and one theoretical, not yet born, grandchild of approximately age 7.
There is no long-term (multi-generational) sustainable human systems design that does not take into account care for those who can not care for themselves. That's why I maintain a Sesame Street Socialist streak in my otherwise Libertarian philosophy. No human is born as a fully formed character in an Ayn Rand novel. IOW, the pure Libertarian solution is sterile and doomed to extinction, but the pure Socialist model is like a pit of quicksand full of giant babies. The Conservative Republican Model is a bit too reliant on tough love and archaic science, "Ooh, spank me Daddy, 'cause I ate the pudding first." for my taste or from my perspective, but it isn't entirely dysfunctional. IOW, I think it is inclusive of "feed self and maybe a 7 year old human too."
Re: Martin
ooooooh, those books sound interesting. I hope I can find them. Ego could have written the third one.
Re: Martin
@C40:
Actually, the couple that co-wrote the first one kind of remind me of Ego and Mrs.Ego. They also co-wrote a book on the topic of weird places to visit all around the world. Seems like they have a lot of fun together.
Oops, brain burp, the exact title of the third book is "Discards: Your Way to Wealth." It is out-of-print and extremely rare. There are no copies currently available for sale. It was co-written in the 70s by the Discard King of Chicago, Mike Lebda, and Dan Quinn. I have good reason to believe that Dan Quinn might be Daniel Quinn, who later wrote "Ishmael", but I haven't been able to verify. The book is written in a very folksy manner, maybe 4th grade reading level, and many of the 70s references are dated, but it is, IMO, brilliant and prescient. It analyses and reveals the entire Decomposer loop of the human economic system, and creates a useful model. IOW, it discusses all the methods, roles and perspectives through which a person can convert Waste into Wealth.
"In the production marketplace, businessmen tend to specialize in supplying raw materials, manufacturing, distributing, or retailing. In the discard marketplace, businessmen tend to specialize in salvaging, rescuing, or promoting."
When I buy and re-sell books that a library is discarding, and when I date recently divorced middle-aged men, I am operating as a "rescuer" as defined by this model. Ego operates as a "rescuer", but also as a "salvager" because he sometimes fixes discards that are completely unusable in the state he finds them. A frequently observed example of a "promoter" would be somebody who scalps tickets for more than box-office price.
Even discard market operators generate discards based on how they define the scope of their business. For instance, I will put a book in a box labeled "DEAD" if I determine that I made a bad call when I purchased it. However, some of these books might still hold value for me if I expanded or re-defined my business to include selling at a flea-market in addition to over the internet. So, when I donate the DEAD box back to some library, a flea market dealer might be able to "rescue" them at the next sale. But, at some point, after a number of such cycles, a book will wind up in a recycling center or a landfill, and a man might end up as a recalcitrant old bachelor, but there is always a possibility that some scout will spot unique value, and "promote" the used book 5 steps up the ladder into the display window of a lovely and interesting rare book shoppe, or the man into some similarly cozy garden-library
Actually, the couple that co-wrote the first one kind of remind me of Ego and Mrs.Ego. They also co-wrote a book on the topic of weird places to visit all around the world. Seems like they have a lot of fun together.
Oops, brain burp, the exact title of the third book is "Discards: Your Way to Wealth." It is out-of-print and extremely rare. There are no copies currently available for sale. It was co-written in the 70s by the Discard King of Chicago, Mike Lebda, and Dan Quinn. I have good reason to believe that Dan Quinn might be Daniel Quinn, who later wrote "Ishmael", but I haven't been able to verify. The book is written in a very folksy manner, maybe 4th grade reading level, and many of the 70s references are dated, but it is, IMO, brilliant and prescient. It analyses and reveals the entire Decomposer loop of the human economic system, and creates a useful model. IOW, it discusses all the methods, roles and perspectives through which a person can convert Waste into Wealth.
"In the production marketplace, businessmen tend to specialize in supplying raw materials, manufacturing, distributing, or retailing. In the discard marketplace, businessmen tend to specialize in salvaging, rescuing, or promoting."
When I buy and re-sell books that a library is discarding, and when I date recently divorced middle-aged men, I am operating as a "rescuer" as defined by this model. Ego operates as a "rescuer", but also as a "salvager" because he sometimes fixes discards that are completely unusable in the state he finds them. A frequently observed example of a "promoter" would be somebody who scalps tickets for more than box-office price.
Even discard market operators generate discards based on how they define the scope of their business. For instance, I will put a book in a box labeled "DEAD" if I determine that I made a bad call when I purchased it. However, some of these books might still hold value for me if I expanded or re-defined my business to include selling at a flea-market in addition to over the internet. So, when I donate the DEAD box back to some library, a flea market dealer might be able to "rescue" them at the next sale. But, at some point, after a number of such cycles, a book will wind up in a recycling center or a landfill, and a man might end up as a recalcitrant old bachelor, but there is always a possibility that some scout will spot unique value, and "promote" the used book 5 steps up the ladder into the display window of a lovely and interesting rare book shoppe, or the man into some similarly cozy garden-library
Re: Martin
Hah. I am trying to be a "promoter" too. I just sold a zero-degree sleeping bag to a girl who is relocating to the mountains of central Oregon this winter to be homeless while doing some sort of forest restoration work. Not quite sure if I'm promoting forest restoration or the transfer of Southern California's homeless population to central Oregon. Either way, I'll chalk that up as a promotional success.
Re: Martin
@Ego:
lol- As I noted in my response on other thread, I am personally declaring that the new "correct" term is "without-current-address" rather than "homeless." Of course, technology may have already rendered this moot, given that sometimes I don't even know where I am when I request a Lyft ride, but my location is known on the grid. IOW, delivery to latitude/longitude may soon negate the need for addresses. This weekend will find me once again clearing and marking trail in a realm that has possibly not been tramped upon by another human in several decades, clutching my my smart-phone with Coordinates app in one hand, and a big can of Bear Spray in the other. A terrible old man who lives in the vicinity, told me horrible stories about his experience in Vietnam, and then pointed at me and laughed when he told my BF "You don't have to worry about a bear eating you, as long as you can run faster than that one." I know very well that bears do not generally make a habit of eating, or even attacking, humans, but it is true that I would likely prove slower AND tastier than my BF, and I have held zero faith in chivalrous protection of females ever since the Bat Incident of 1996.
lol- As I noted in my response on other thread, I am personally declaring that the new "correct" term is "without-current-address" rather than "homeless." Of course, technology may have already rendered this moot, given that sometimes I don't even know where I am when I request a Lyft ride, but my location is known on the grid. IOW, delivery to latitude/longitude may soon negate the need for addresses. This weekend will find me once again clearing and marking trail in a realm that has possibly not been tramped upon by another human in several decades, clutching my my smart-phone with Coordinates app in one hand, and a big can of Bear Spray in the other. A terrible old man who lives in the vicinity, told me horrible stories about his experience in Vietnam, and then pointed at me and laughed when he told my BF "You don't have to worry about a bear eating you, as long as you can run faster than that one." I know very well that bears do not generally make a habit of eating, or even attacking, humans, but it is true that I would likely prove slower AND tastier than my BF, and I have held zero faith in chivalrous protection of females ever since the Bat Incident of 1996.
Re: Martin
You're gonna love what3words. It was made for you....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY-kd_mxyeg
https://what3words.com/about/
Re: Martin
@Ego:
Thanks. So cool! Already installed. The only problem with this app/system is that I KNOW that I will now be constantly tempted to reveal my location.
Thanks. So cool! Already installed. The only problem with this app/system is that I KNOW that I will now be constantly tempted to reveal my location.