best books to learn economics

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BRUTE
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Re: best books to learn economics

Post by BRUTE » Tue May 16, 2017 11:00 pm

Dragline wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 11:04 am
Of course there is real science. It's defined as hypotheses that are tested for accuracy through the process known as the Scientific Method, which involves the empirical collection of data. However, many metaphysical topics are not testable in this manner, which Popper observed.
seems like Dragline is confusing the "Scientific" Method with science. bait and switch, it's just a name. brute likes to call it "empiricism". it's merely one of many methods to arrive at knowledge or science. it in no way defines it.

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BRUTE
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Re: best books to learn economics

Post by BRUTE » Tue May 16, 2017 11:09 pm

ThisDinosaur wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 3:14 pm
So, if humans are a chinese room, how is this insight useful? Are the rest of the assertions in Human Action dependant on this understanding?
the chinese room is a thought experiment designed for listeners to intuit that a "dumb machine" can pass the turing test, i.e. "fake consciousness". apart from the fact that Dennett has debunked it pretty well as an intuition pump, it is also irrelevant to Praxeology. Mises is not saying humans are a chinese room, he's saying that it doesn't matter what goes on inside the room, as long as the outcomes (actions, i.e. Human Action) are observable.

simple example brute likes to use: if ThisDinosaur eats a chocolate bar instead of an apple, it doesn't matter if he "really" wanted the apple but was being irrational, it doesn't matter if he has a strict diet plan, and it doesn't matter if he was born with an apple allergy - all that matters to Praxeology is that he expressed his preferences for a chocolate bar over any other action at the time.

it is more of an abstraction than an understanding.

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Re: best books to learn economics

Post by ThisDinosaur » Wed May 17, 2017 12:39 am

The Chinese room also comes up in discussions about consciousness-free decision making in the cephalopod nervous system. Each arm has a mind of its own, and they can often be seen pulling the animal in opposite directions. A loose association of ganglia around the esophagus works like a committee voting on what the arms should do, and sometimes they disagree. The upshot is that the human nervous system works the same way, except our decision making aparatus is crammed together in the skull and spinal cord instead of distributed, net like, throughout the body. Consciousness is like a passenger, fooled into thinking its responsible for everything the system is doing and confabulating explanations.

I get now why an assumption of intentional, goal directed behavior is necessary to make sense of catallatics. I remember that the description of interest rates as a result of averaging the population's time preference for money or whatever as an "aha" moment for me in ManEcoState. My only objection is that defining *all* behavior as intentional and goal-directed seems kind of like an trivial tautology.

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Riggerjack
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Re: best books to learn economics

Post by Riggerjack » Wed May 17, 2017 7:41 am

Nobody lives in the aggregate. But economics studies human actions in the aggregate. Worrying about motivation and consciousness is like studying trees, rather than forests.

Where you focus your attention determines what you learn.

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Riggerjack
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Re: best books to learn economics

Post by Riggerjack » Wed May 17, 2017 7:50 am

Kotlikoff is very much a believer that economists are special people who, if people listened to them, could lead them to a promised land. He does not really believe in uncertainty or unknown unknowns. He epitomizes the overconfident theorist.
I agree. I stumbled upon his site early in my retirement planning. He maintains a site with a pay calculator for consumption smoothing. I mentioned where I got the Samuelson's story because it is hard to find any reference to the original, as it was part of a set of letters written over 50 years ago.

I do like the story, as it makes clear how much the terminology is subjective, and the strife is a product of perception.

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BRUTE
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Re: best books to learn economics

Post by BRUTE » Wed May 17, 2017 10:02 am

ThisDinosaur wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 12:39 am
Consciousness is like a passenger, fooled into thinking its responsible for everything the system is doing and confabulating explanations.
brute was never a huge fan of consciousness, and thinks it is generally overrated. he likes Dennett's view on consciousness.
ThisDinosaur wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 12:39 am
My only objection is that defining *all* behavior as intentional and goal-directed seems kind of like an trivial tautology.
"tautological" is a typical criticism of Praxeology, because everything is based on definitions and logic. but there can be things that follow logically without the conclusion being tautological. afabk, it's only a tautology if the conclusion is a re-definition of the original assumption.

if ThisDinosaur was being operated by a random number generator, it could be said by an observer that his behavior was not goal-directed. same goes for the committee arm thing. but it can also be said that he moves perfectly adhering to his goal of intentionally moving randomly, or the committee's goal of making very little progress and pulling in all kinds of directions.

the whole idea of "rational" in terms of humans beings is based on Descartes' error and the belief in a supreme consciousness. Mises abstracts that away pretty well.

leeholsen
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Re: best books to learn economics

Post by leeholsen » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:14 am

this is not a book on economics but I looked back 3 pages and did not see a recommend books thread, so I am putting it here.

recently read poor Richards retirement by aaron clarely and would highly recommend it to any ERE'er. it shows the aspects on minimalism and retiring on it.

a warning that clarey, who is know on the web as captain capitalism; is a bit of a pessimist or realist depending upon how you view the USA's debt problems and demographics; but his retirement book would fit well with ERE imo.

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BRUTE
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Re: best books to learn economics

Post by BRUTE » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:06 am

does leeholsen care to summarize it in a blurb, or give an idea on how it compares to ERE or other minimalist/retirement literature?

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FBeyer
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Re: best books to learn economics

Post by FBeyer » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:40 am

leeholsen wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:14 am
this is not a book on economics but I looked back 3 pages and did not see a recommend books thread, so I am putting it here.

recently read poor Richards retirement by aaron clarely and would highly recommend it to any ERE'er. it shows the aspects on minimalism and retiring on it.

a warning that clarey, who is know on the web as captain capitalism; is a bit of a pessimist or realist depending upon how you view the USA's debt problems and demographics; but his retirement book would fit well with ERE imo.
Is that the guy with the YouTube channel? Asshole consulting?

leeholsen
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Re: best books to learn economics

Post by leeholsen » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:16 pm

BRUTE wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:06 am
does leeholsen care to summarize it in a blurb, or give an idea on how it compares to ERE or other minimalist/retirement literature?
not to be a "brute" but I don't.

its less than 150 pages, I read it in an hour and its $5 on kindle; it's up to you if you want to read it; I just recommended it.

leeholsen
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Re: best books to learn economics

Post by leeholsen » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:18 pm

FBeyer wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:40 am
leeholsen wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:14 am
this is not a book on economics but I looked back 3 pages and did not see a recommend books thread, so I am putting it here.

recently read poor Richards retirement by aaron clarely and would highly recommend it to any ERE'er. it shows the aspects on minimalism and retiring on it.

a warning that clarey, who is know on the web as captain capitalism; is a bit of a pessimist or realist depending upon how you view the USA's debt problems and demographics; but his retirement book would fit well with ERE imo.
Is that the guy with the YouTube channel? Asshole consulting?
same guy.

he can be offensive in his opinions, but he's not working for anyone but himself; so he has that right.

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BRUTE
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Re: best books to learn economics

Post by BRUTE » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:18 pm

ok

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