Lean Logic by David Fleming

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DSKla
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Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by DSKla »

I wanted to give everyone a heads-up on this book since I'd never heard of the author before, but it's quite astounding. The reviews all suggested it's hard to categorize, and now that I have it in my hands, I'd agree. Without a doubt, it's over 600 pages of the kind of systems thinking that would appeal to many ERErs.

Presented like a hardback wikipedia of sustainability, the entries are listed in alphabetical order, with asterisks next to words that have their own entries, so you can jump through rabbitholes the same way you might do with wiki. I've only begun to thumb around, but it looks like something I'll be coming back to for years. Even the short "how to cheat in an argument" section at the beginning that sums up a ton of argument fallacies has given me pause to rethink the way I debate.

Everything from thinking down through doing, the life's work of a man who's had his ear to the ground of the sustainability movement for decades, without falling into any of the self-defeating traps that snare so many. I've got a lot of reading left to do, but I still recommend giving it a look.

BRUTE
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by BRUTE »

sounds interesting, but there doesn't seem to be a digital version. only hardcover for $50 :(

DSKla
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by DSKla »

$36 on Amazon with free shipping.

jacob
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by jacob »


DSKla
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by DSKla »

That looks like a good budget/travel light/TL;DR option. If anyone gets it, let me know what you think. I decided to pass on the bundle because I figured I could piece it together from the dictionary version, although I suspect it'll take me a year or two of piecemeal reading.

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jennypenny
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

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BoredRider
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by BoredRider »

This is now absolutely one of my two favourite books of all time.
(Kahlil Gibran's The Prophet being the other, at the other extreme of length! :lol: )

DarkOptimism
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by DarkOptimism »

DSKla wrote:I wanted to give everyone a heads-up on this book since I'd never heard of the author before, but it's quite astounding. The reviews all suggested it's hard to categorize, and now that I have it in my hands, I'd agree. Without a doubt, it's over 600 pages of the kind of systems thinking that would appeal to many ERErs.

Presented like a hardback wikipedia of sustainability, the entries are listed in alphabetical order, with asterisks next to words that have their own entries, so you can jump through rabbitholes the same way you might do with wiki. I've only begun to thumb around, but it looks like something I'll be coming back to for years. Even the short "how to cheat in an argument" section at the beginning that sums up a ton of argument fallacies has given me pause to rethink the way I debate.

Everything from thinking down through doing, the life's work of a man who's had his ear to the ground of the sustainability movement for decades, without falling into any of the self-defeating traps that snare so many. I've got a lot of reading left to do, but I still recommend giving it a look.
Hey DSKla. I'm the editor of the book, and having stumbled across your comments online just wanted to say how great it is to read your thoughts on my late mentor's work! It blew me away too, hence the years of unpaid time I put in to finishing it up and getting it out there after his sudden death :)

Best,
Shaun

vexed87
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by vexed87 »

I first got wind of Lean Logic on JMG's Arch Druid Report but forgot about it as I'm not in the habit of pre-ordering things! Then Peak Prosperity posted an interview with Shaun on their site recently. I had some Amazon vouchers to use up after xmas, so gladly ordered a copy of Lean Logic as I enjoyed Shaun's discussion.

It's great to see there's a growing peak oil transition movement in the UK, I haven't gotten to know many outside the ERE circle who acknowledge our predicament and are making personal changes. Shaun, if you're still around these parts, great work, hopefully our paths might cross one day :)

TheRedHare
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by TheRedHare »

I got Lean Logic about 3 weeks ago, and I love this book! The vast amount of information that is in there will keep one busy for quite some time. Although the book is basically saying that we are going to go back to simpler times, I find it comforting and I often think of moving out of the city and back home in rural Georgia once I've managed to become FI.

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jennypenny
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by jennypenny »

Shaun Chamberlin was a recent guest on Legalize-Freedom.

cmonkey
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by cmonkey »

The two books mentioned in this thread aren't available at my library. I'd say close to half of the books I want are not in my library system! :evil: For a system that includes dozens of libraries, this is very disappointing. ILL request might work but are cumbersome.

Books are one of those things I am very conflicted on purchasing (they are the only thing I am tempted by), as libraries are available, but when my library doesn't have what I want, it gets even more tempting to just buy them. Ugh.

DSKla
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by DSKla »

cmonkey, Lean Logic is not a good book for library checkout. It would be like checking out an encyclopedia and trying to read the alphabetical entries cover to cover in time to return it. This is a book you'll want to peruse in non-linear fashion for a very long time. Maybe the companion book would be good for a checkout, but Lean Logic is a strict buy or no-buy decision.

cmonkey
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by cmonkey »

@DSKla, Thanks for the heads up. Looking through the book preview, I now see that. Looks very interesting.

TheRedHare
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by TheRedHare »

I was looking into the companion book, which I kinda wish I got, but I still enjoy picking apart Lean Logic. It's a great reference book. I would agree that this is definitely not the kind of book for a library....probably because no one would bring it back.

Anytime I've had a question as to what something would look like from an ecological or local economy perspective, Fleming was able to convey his answers in a concise manner all while adding additional references in case I wanted to go further down the rabbit hole in order to understand something at its roots.

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jennypenny
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by jennypenny »

They are working on a documentary at the Fleming Policy Centre and they've posted some teaser videos if anyone is interested ... https://www.flemingpolicycentre.org.uk/ ... eath-snow/

vexed87
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by vexed87 »

Trailer for the documentary film just came out recently. You can find it here.
http://www.bullfrogfilms.com/catalog/sql.html

The documentary title changed to The Sequel: What Will Follow Our Troubled Civilsation? I think it will be of great interest to many here.

Looking forward to a local screening. I think details of screenings will eventually be shared here:
https://www.flemingpolicycentre.org.uk/the-sequel/

FYI - anyone choking on their coffee at the price of a DVD...
flemingpolicycentre.org.uk wrote:Note that since these early copies are intended for group screenings in classrooms, meetings, theatres etc, the price is higher than it will be upon the full public release in 2019

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

Lean Logic has been ordered, thank you for the recommendation @vexed87 aka “the Duke of York.”

jacob
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by jacob »

I read Lean Logic from to end over xmas a couple of years ago and I just finished Surviving the Future today. The former is an encyclopedia and the latter is organized into chapters. I do not think they substitute from each other. I'd use STF for the organization and overall message and LL as a large compendium of concepts.

From an ERE perspective STF is interesting in the sense of answering two important questions about what comes after ERE in terms of community and what comes after FI. STF provides an alternative to the market economy which is based on a local community that are completely based on relationships which is somewhat enforced by the fact that one can not opt out by leaving---if you want shoes, you better stay on good terms with the cobbler. The skills/types present are in complete alignment with ERE (minus the FI component). The renaissance ideal reigns including the creation of slack (Perrow's normal accidents is even mentioned). What's interesting is that slack can be absorbed by the community in the form of "useless work" manifesting itself in carnivals, that is, you don't work for money but to prepare for celebrations which have the side-effects of both showing/developing your skills AND tying the community together. Also insert religion (think holidays and celebrations). (As an INTJ this whole carnival thing was a bit of a turn-off :-P Kinda reminded me of the "dance"-orientation of Extinction Rebellion. Like people who dance are not my kind of people :-D Perhaps though this might be something one would get better at if it happened round the year. In current culture, it happens so rarely that I'm entirely out of practice for such things.)

Also, unlike 95%+ of all books being published today, neither of these can be distilled into a couple of pithy sentences without entirely missing the point. There's complexity to be found here. => Also means that one benefits from rereading.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Lean Logic by David Fleming

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

As an XNTP with a strong F the whole carnival thing is my favorite part.

It is what I am to do after becoming FI. It is why I am so unhappy in the corporate dystopia. It is why Semi-ERE is not an option for me.

Mister Imperceptible as Carnival Master.

Why are you alive? Just to think?

But also, to feel.

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