BC #12: "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor Frankl

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jacob
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Re: BC #12: "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor Frankl

Post by jacob »

tylerrr wrote: I always find it interesting how atheistic the ERE crowd is to a large extent....
Because statistics ...

The ERE crowd is largely INTJ. INTJs is the least likely type to believe in a higher power or identify themselves as religious. Note the important difference between the very common "absence of belief in higher powers" and the less common "belief in the absence of higher powers".

tylerrr
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Re: BC #12: "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor Frankl

Post by tylerrr »

jacob wrote:
tylerrr wrote: I always find it interesting how atheistic the ERE crowd is to a large extent....
Because statistics ...

The ERE crowd is largely INTJ. INTJs is the least likely type to believe in a higher power or identify themselves as religious. Note the important difference between the very common "absence of belief in higher powers" and the less common "belief in the absence of higher powers".
So you're saying most EREs are agnostic. I guess there's "some" humility in this crowd.

jacob
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Re: BC #12: "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor Frankl

Post by jacob »

Haha, no humility ain't the right word and ERE != INTJ although the correlation is strong. Perhaps the typical INTJ's approach is best illustrated by this [disputed!?] quote from Laplace
Napoleon: You have written this huge book on the system of the world without once mentioning the author of the universe.
Laplace: Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis.
Regardless of whether the quote is real, that explains the typical INTJ sentiment of questioning and seeking pragmatic explanations of everything quite accurately. Alternatively, one could say that INTJs are being quite humble by not presuming the existence of anything beyond what they require for explaining what they observe ;-)

tylerrr
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Re: BC #12: "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor Frankl

Post by tylerrr »

jacob wrote:Haha, no humility ain't the right word and ERE != INTJ although the correlation is strong. Perhaps the typical INTJ's approach is best illustrated by this [disputed!?] quote from Laplace
Napoleon: You have written this huge book on the system of the world without once mentioning the author of the universe.
Laplace: Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis.
Regardless of whether the quote is real, that explains the typical INTJ sentiment of questioning and seeking pragmatic explanations of everything quite accurately. Alternatively, one could say that INTJs are being quite humble by not presuming the existence of anything beyond what they require for explaining what they observe ;-)
I'm as inquisitive as the next person. I love science and just watched a great documentary on Einstein free on Youtube from the History Channel. Even Einstein said "I want to know God's thoughts" and he admitted there had to be something more intelligent and vast , which could explain a functioning universe. The atheistic view seems very self-centered and arrogant by most I've talked to and I agree, but agnostics do leave the possibility open to some kind of higher power. I know many agnostics who pray and meditate, they're just not sure what they are praying to.....I don't claim to know either. I just know the exercise improves my life compared to when I don't. :)

Fish
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Re: BC #12: "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor Frankl

Post by Fish »

This book has been on my "want to read someday" list for a while, so I picked it up after encountering it at a thrift store. Most of the other passages that I highlighted have already been mentioned by Dragline above, but here's one of my favorite quotes of the book which provoked a "you're doing it wrong, Fish"-moment.
I consider it a dangerous misconception of mental hygiene to assume that what a man needs in the first place is equilibrium, or as it is called in biology, "homeostasis," i.e. a tensionless state. What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for a worthwhile goal, a freely chosen task.
This occurs near the start of Part 2 ("Logotherapy in a nutshell") and until I encountered that quote I was on the verge of putting the book down for good because VF was getting very theoretical and philosophical. Very glad I didn't, because the 2nd part of the book is actually quite profound (to me as a person who devotes far too little attention to the very big picture). This quote kind of crystallizes my own realization from personal experience that an absence of struggle and suffering in itself does not bring happiness and fulfillment.

The 1984 and later editions include an essay called "The case for a tragic optimism" which I liked even though much of the material is similar to Part 2. What follows is from the opening passage (somewhat edited for space). Not sure I fully agree with #1 but it is an interesting take.
What is meant by "tragic optimism?" In brief, it means that one is, and remains optimistic in spite of the "tragic triad:" (1) pain, (2) guilt, and (3) death. How is it possible to say yes to life in spite of all that? What matters is to make the best of any given situation. The human potential at its best always allows for: (1) turning suffering into a human achievement and accomplishment, (2) deriving from guilt the opportunity to change oneself for the better, and (3) deriving from life's transitoriness an incentive to take responsible action.
This last quote is relevant to personal finance and the FIRE movement:
In no way is suffering necessary to find meaning. I only insist that meaning is possible even in spite of suffering---provided, certainly, that the suffering is unavoidable. If it were avoidable, however, the meaningful thing to do would be to remove its cause.
The parallel I see between this book and personal finance is that many equate work with suffering, and pursue FI/RE in an effort to avoid it. To the extent that one's attitude or vocation cannot be changed such that "work is not so bad", that is a reasonable approach. It's interesting to note that in these cases where "work is suffering and FI/RE is my way out," the prospect of early retirement assigns a purpose and meaning to the suffering that is work.

Also, since @jennypenny observes that I tend to come across as a "cranky" parent ;) , after reading this book I resolve to try harder to bear my responsibility in an honorable manner and perhaps even find a greater meaning in the process. I had time to read this book this past weekend, life is actually rather good! :)

Lastly, I almost didn't want to bring this up, but after reading this book I started having dreams of being a prisoner in a concentration camp... am I the only one? :o :(

wood
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Re: BC #12: "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor Frankl

Post by wood »

Great to hear. This book is also on my list. I seem to have gotten the same realization from looking at some of Jordan Peterson's stuff (viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9633) as you got from this book.

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