Why is it that people are so terrified by terrorists and global warming while there are far more important problems in the world that kill more people every day than all modern terrorist attacks together? Is it because they are so selfish they only care about problems that endanger themselves or is the media simply talking about the wrong things and are most people strongly undereducated about what's actually going on in the world? I surely hope it's the second option...
Everyone in the western world should be obligated to watch this film (or another one bringing the same message). The truth this film presents in a clear and undeniable way should turn every healthy-minded person away from our rotten system.
Please, if you are not aware of our food situation, watch this film.
The film can be watched (for free) on youtube.
This is of course only one of the "modern" problems, but definitely one of the biggest.
We feed the world (documentary) - Another great reason for pursuing ERE
-
AlexOliver
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:25 pm
-
jacob
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15996
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
- Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
- Contact:
People are afraid of the unknown. Similar to how people are more afraid of flying than driving despite the latter being more dangerous.
Ironically, due to fear of 9/11 more people choose to drive in the months after and consequently there was a drive-by-choice-induced additional death toll of 1000.
This is similar to how plane crashes are published but car crashes are not. Having daily headlines like "Another 100 Americans died in traffic today" every single day wouldn't sell any papers. Similar to "the subway arrived on time".
Ironically, due to fear of 9/11 more people choose to drive in the months after and consequently there was a drive-by-choice-induced additional death toll of 1000.
This is similar to how plane crashes are published but car crashes are not. Having daily headlines like "Another 100 Americans died in traffic today" every single day wouldn't sell any papers. Similar to "the subway arrived on time".
-
AnneBentham
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:15 am
I only watched a few minutes of the film, so I'm going to make assumptions about the direction it took. Please correct me if I got the wrong idea. It's basically saying that there is lots of food waste that could otherwise go to feeding poverty stricken people, right? One of my favourite films (The Future of Food, available free on Hulu) addresses many of these same issues but focuses on food quality and government/corporate corruption. The only problem that I have with these films is that they imply that giving food to hungry people will solve world hunger, when really overpopulation is the problem and food scarcity is a side effect. More food leads to a higher population, which leads to more food problems. I highly recommend reading more about this (check out some of Daniel Quinn's books or at least watch this lecture.)
My first thought when I saw that big heap of day old bread that was being thrown away is that it could have easily made a huge batch of ethanol. That's a real shame.
My first thought when I saw that big heap of day old bread that was being thrown away is that it could have easily made a huge batch of ethanol. That's a real shame.
@Anne: It actually isn't just about that, It also talks about a lot of other things concerning food, like genetically modified food (Monsanto), how badly animals are threated and how much energy and recourses are wasted by the food production. The documentary gets more interesting near the end when they visit poor farmers and interview the CEO of Nestlé, who says some very dumb and selfish things.
Of course redistributing food would't really solve the problem, it's the greed of corporations and the western economy that cause poorer countries to be unable to feed their population.
Another documentary about many of these problems but focusing more on the american consumer is called Food inc.
Of course redistributing food would't really solve the problem, it's the greed of corporations and the western economy that cause poorer countries to be unable to feed their population.
Another documentary about many of these problems but focusing more on the american consumer is called Food inc.
-
AnneBentham
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:15 am
@DanielZ: Yeah, that reminds me a lot of the parts that I liked about The Future of Food, which also talked about Monsanto, patenting seeds, etc. I think localizing is really the only way to go and of course avoiding all the scary GMO stuff.
I've been meaning to watch Food, Inc. I downloaded it a long time ago but forgot about it until now.
I've been meaning to watch Food, Inc. I downloaded it a long time ago but forgot about it until now.
Jacob hits the risk/reward point well. Most humans are terrible at judging risk/reward. Thus, you get Vegas.
I must admit I'm not too concerned about the poor animal treatment. Would I prefer it not happen? Yes, but if I'm going to expend energy on an issue it won't be on better treatment for animals about to be killed.
I'm also not overly supportive of just giving people food. If you do this long enough they change their lifestyle to match the free food distribution and then you have to keep giving it to them. Fixing the polotical and economic issues causing the majority of the problems is far more important than giving away food.
I am definitely for eliminating subsidies.
The thing with films like this is you could turn around and produce a quality film with the exact opposite message fairly easily. I'm not saying the new film would be correct, just that both would be cherry picking information.
I must admit I'm not too concerned about the poor animal treatment. Would I prefer it not happen? Yes, but if I'm going to expend energy on an issue it won't be on better treatment for animals about to be killed.
I'm also not overly supportive of just giving people food. If you do this long enough they change their lifestyle to match the free food distribution and then you have to keep giving it to them. Fixing the polotical and economic issues causing the majority of the problems is far more important than giving away food.
I am definitely for eliminating subsidies.
The thing with films like this is you could turn around and produce a quality film with the exact opposite message fairly easily. I'm not saying the new film would be correct, just that both would be cherry picking information.
-
MarkInTheNorth
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:58 pm
Of course redistributing food would't really solve the problem, it's the greed of corporations and the western economy that cause poorer countries to be unable to feed their population.
I think you need to get over your hangup on "the greed of corporations and the western economy." Corporations are a fantastic tool for organizing people to produce value. A large part of the reason that the West has been so successful is that we developed the principle of the limited liability corporation, which encourages innovation and risk-taking, and because we have a tradition of honest, strong property rights enforcement that assures people that if they make the effort to work and think and create wealth, it will not simply be stolen from them by the local strongman.
The people in the countries that can't feed themselves are in that situation because of the cultural norms and choices they make. Corruption, low trust levels, poor property rights protections, cultural norms that demonize material success, irresponsible birthrates...I'm quite sure that if these cultures adopted the same culture values and norms that accounts for the West's success, they would have similar success. Case in point: China's move along the continuum from communism to "socialism with Chinese characteristics", i.e. capitalism and free markets and their subsequent ability to bring 200 million people out of poverty in the space of a decade. Communists and other collectivists are very hung up on "selfishness" and "greed", and they are also very poor and hungry and oppressed.
You have to get over this envy mentality that it is "greedy" or wrong to want to produce vast amounts of value and trade it to others (with money as the intermediary) for the value they produce in order to enjoy all the various wonderful material bounties of this material world. And get over this idea that the evil West is somehow preventing people in the rest of the world from actualizing their potential. The West and the concepts it introduced to the world (liberty, capitalism, rule by the people instead of kings, breaking down class distinctions, the end of slavery, the Enlightenment and the scientific revolution, mass production technologies and the Industrial Revolution, technologies for increasing food production by several orders of magnitude) has been the most powerful force for material bounty, freedom, and human possibility in world history. It is a very real threat to our future when the young people seem to be taught mainly that our ancestors were evil oppressors and they we are the source of what is wrong in the world. Beyond the fact that it's repulsive that it has become common for American young people to be taught that, it's simply not true.
I think you need to get over your hangup on "the greed of corporations and the western economy." Corporations are a fantastic tool for organizing people to produce value. A large part of the reason that the West has been so successful is that we developed the principle of the limited liability corporation, which encourages innovation and risk-taking, and because we have a tradition of honest, strong property rights enforcement that assures people that if they make the effort to work and think and create wealth, it will not simply be stolen from them by the local strongman.
The people in the countries that can't feed themselves are in that situation because of the cultural norms and choices they make. Corruption, low trust levels, poor property rights protections, cultural norms that demonize material success, irresponsible birthrates...I'm quite sure that if these cultures adopted the same culture values and norms that accounts for the West's success, they would have similar success. Case in point: China's move along the continuum from communism to "socialism with Chinese characteristics", i.e. capitalism and free markets and their subsequent ability to bring 200 million people out of poverty in the space of a decade. Communists and other collectivists are very hung up on "selfishness" and "greed", and they are also very poor and hungry and oppressed.
You have to get over this envy mentality that it is "greedy" or wrong to want to produce vast amounts of value and trade it to others (with money as the intermediary) for the value they produce in order to enjoy all the various wonderful material bounties of this material world. And get over this idea that the evil West is somehow preventing people in the rest of the world from actualizing their potential. The West and the concepts it introduced to the world (liberty, capitalism, rule by the people instead of kings, breaking down class distinctions, the end of slavery, the Enlightenment and the scientific revolution, mass production technologies and the Industrial Revolution, technologies for increasing food production by several orders of magnitude) has been the most powerful force for material bounty, freedom, and human possibility in world history. It is a very real threat to our future when the young people seem to be taught mainly that our ancestors were evil oppressors and they we are the source of what is wrong in the world. Beyond the fact that it's repulsive that it has become common for American young people to be taught that, it's simply not true.
-
AlexOliver
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:25 pm
"West has been so successful" Define: successful please.
The reason pooer nations can't feed themselves is imperialism. Governments and corporations have stolen the land they've lived in for generations, taken the resources, forcing people to work in their factories for pennies an hour.
"Our ancestors were evil oppressors and they we are the source of what is wrong in the world." I kind of agree with this, without your qualifier. Our planet wouldn't be dying if it weren't for them (and us perpetuating ideas of "material bounty" beyond the point of "enough" as a good thing!).
The reason pooer nations can't feed themselves is imperialism. Governments and corporations have stolen the land they've lived in for generations, taken the resources, forcing people to work in their factories for pennies an hour.
"Our ancestors were evil oppressors and they we are the source of what is wrong in the world." I kind of agree with this, without your qualifier. Our planet wouldn't be dying if it weren't for them (and us perpetuating ideas of "material bounty" beyond the point of "enough" as a good thing!).
@Alex: Success = copious production? maybe... My father, who escaped from communism, always laughs at the idea of Marx/Lenin finding out one of the biggest problems of modern capitalism is obesity!
"The reason pooer nations can't feed themselves is imperialism." This is embarrassingly false... I guess famine didn't exist before empires then?... No one is arguing that imperialism and corporate practices haven't done severe wrong. But the sole reason for hunger and poverty? Come on.
"forcing people to work in their factories for pennies an hour." Wrong again. The reality is that these jobs are highly sought after... The abuses exist likely because the gross over supply of labor. Which is tied to at least a root cause of hunger; overpopulation. The flames of which are fanned by importing food.
I heard a lecture from a [black] South African professor once. He said, "White people treat black people like animals." No one disagreed. He continued, "When a man misbehaves, you blame the man. When a dog misbehaves, you blame the owner."
All of humanity is clever. Members of the developed world need to quit insulting the intelligence of the developing world and let them be human. Give them their auto-determination.
"The reason pooer nations can't feed themselves is imperialism." This is embarrassingly false... I guess famine didn't exist before empires then?... No one is arguing that imperialism and corporate practices haven't done severe wrong. But the sole reason for hunger and poverty? Come on.
"forcing people to work in their factories for pennies an hour." Wrong again. The reality is that these jobs are highly sought after... The abuses exist likely because the gross over supply of labor. Which is tied to at least a root cause of hunger; overpopulation. The flames of which are fanned by importing food.
I heard a lecture from a [black] South African professor once. He said, "White people treat black people like animals." No one disagreed. He continued, "When a man misbehaves, you blame the man. When a dog misbehaves, you blame the owner."
All of humanity is clever. Members of the developed world need to quit insulting the intelligence of the developing world and let them be human. Give them their auto-determination.