The Moneyless Manifesto

Your favorite books and links
7Wannabe5
Posts: 5530
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I would think smoking would be your next best option?

theanimal
Posts: 1365
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:05 pm
Location: Gates of the Arctic
Contact:

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by theanimal »

Smoking could work but I think it keeps for a shorter duration than dried.

Edit: I'm usually fishing in July and hunting in September. As of now my freezer is on from May- early October. Realistically, I need to figure out an ideal method of preservation for about 3 months until things can freeze.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 5530
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

True. You could smoke it and then keep it in a barrel of salt or sugar. The Native Americans of my region used maple syrup as meat preservative which seems like the most delicious alternative to me.

bigato
Posts: 2350
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:43 pm

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by bigato »

Washing clothes by hand probably sucks for you because of the low temperatures, right? It’s quite ok for me here in Brazil.

theanimal
Posts: 1365
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:05 pm
Location: Gates of the Arctic
Contact:

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by theanimal »

Yes, low temperatures and I have to source my own water. It's doable but I end up having to get water more frequently which takes up more time.

bigato
Posts: 2350
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:43 pm

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by bigato »

Doesn’t the washing machine uses up more water than washing manually?

theanimal
Posts: 1365
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:05 pm
Location: Gates of the Arctic
Contact:

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by theanimal »

Yes. But I go to a laundromat.

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 11743
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 73
Contact:

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by jacob »

Well well well, turns out he lives just down the road from Paul Kingsnorth of the Dark Mountain Project. I wonder whether that was coincidental or deliberate and who moved first and what else is going on in that area. This suggests that [The Way Home] is one step ahead of prepping as DPM for all intents and purposes considers technological civilization walking dead. They're rather ahead of the curve.

theanimal
Posts: 1365
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:05 pm
Location: Gates of the Arctic
Contact:

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by theanimal »

Looks like they're ahead of us in organizing an ERE city.

bigato
Posts: 2350
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:43 pm

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by bigato »

You guys should convince Jacob and Rob Greenfield to agree on a place and start the North America chapter of the global transition :)

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 11743
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 73
Contact:

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by jacob »

@bigato - Kinda tricky. DMP and the whole UK environmentalist movement (e.g. David Flemming, Lean Logic) are quite localistic (is that a word?) and community-oriented, whereas ERE seems to lean more nomadic and individualistic. This makes it exponentially more difficult to put people together in a given space. Remember how nobody could agree on the location of ERE city? Most had various conditions the most important being their location-based job and their family. An idea needs some pretty strong alternative values to override that.

One also needs to worry (probably a lot) about the equivalent of gentrification when starting such projects. Essentially this problem: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths ... in the US it happens even at the state level, most famously people fleeing from California to Texas (and Washington) but then proceeding to make those places more like the place they fled in the first place (to the exasperation of the natives). You can also see on the internet when a subculture/group suddenly gets popular. This leads to a form of Eternal September resulting in the OGs leaving and restarting elsewhere. It's a really difficult problem.

bigato
Posts: 2350
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:43 pm

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by bigato »

Yeah, it was mostly tongue in cheek since I’m quite skeptical of intentional communities. I actually said to someone else earlier today that people can’t even agree on a place, let alone on the rest. I still think that two or three people could possibly start an example that could motivate others, maybe not to move together but at least to start something similar somewhere else. And wherever it may be, people will have to relate and trade with whoever already lives there or moves there afterwards. This is another example of a problem where I think the only viable solution is one that works even for a single individual. That is, one should be able to build useful, sustainable and productive relationships in whatever place one gets thrown in.

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 11743
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 73
Contact:

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by jacob »

I finished the book and it looks like it's Boyle who wanted to create the intentional community. They even have a guest house which is free but only if you can find it ("ask around") which is a clever way to put in a moat. (I kinda try to do the same with these forums.) I think they have higher chances in developing such a community than we have because localism demands people stay in place, that is, people are attached to the place rather than an idea or a particular bunch of people like e.g. ERE City.

User avatar
jennypenny
Posts: 6329
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Stepford USA

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by jennypenny »

There's a collection of people in the west of Ireland all converging on the same ideas. Colette O'Neill of Bealtaine Cottage is also thereabouts. She has videos of the two of them on her channel.

I wonder if culture has something to do with it. In my experience with friends and family, the Irish value the land as much as the people who've trod it.

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 11743
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 73
Contact:

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by jacob »

jennypenny wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:34 am
I wonder if culture has something to do with it. In my experience with friends and family, the Irish value the land as much as the people who've trod it.
There was an interesting paragraph in the book about how the English tended to lead with "What do you do for a living?" whereas the Irish lead with "Where are you from?" I find this interesting. Apparently Brazilians might lead with "What soccer team do you support?" (?)

bigato
Posts: 2350
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:43 pm

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by bigato »

They sometimes do, and make the funniest faces when I answer I don’t like soccer. But usually “what do you do for a living” still is the most common

Jin+Guice
Posts: 570
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:15 am

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by Jin+Guice »

jacob wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:45 am
There was an interesting paragraph in the book about how the English tended to lead with "What do you do for a living?" whereas the Irish lead with "Where are you from?" I find this interesting. Apparently Brazilians might lead with "What soccer team do you support?" (?)
In New Orleans "Where are you from?" is THE introduction question. If you answer "New Orleans" the next question is "Where did you got to high school?" and this eventually leads to a dick swinging contest about whose ancestors moved her first (which is kind of weird because if you're white and your ancestors lived here prior to 1865.....). Asking "What do you do" is actually slightly rude here.

The (American) southern (for those unfamiliar, the former Confederate States or the geographic American southeast) question is "Where are you from." However, I have noticed richer people in the more boring areas will ask "What do you do?" Maybe they just know I'm a Yankee though? Being from the "What do you do?" states, I wouldn't have suspected this, but asking "Where are you from?" is actually a much more interesting question and leads to much more interesting conversation.

User avatar
jennypenny
Posts: 6329
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Stepford USA

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by jennypenny »

Another recent conversation with Boyle for those who are interested ... https://youtu.be/-n-Ag6PJhrk. Besides the normal questions, he touched on new topics including living in Ireland, his vasectomy, and choosing to be a hypocrite.

I laughed when he prefaced his comments with "I see the point of optimism..."

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 11743
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 73
Contact:

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by jacob »

Semi-unrelated I note that he has chosen a lifestyle that's set in the western world around the time between 1820ish and 1850ish ... with lots of "ish" caveats. At that point, there were no more major wars or general murdering but household technology like electricity or steam-based industrial manufactured items had yet to take off. People made most of the stuff on their own. They still sewed their own clothes and grew their own food. Way I see it is like a "primitive tribe" bordering the modern world with some exchange of goods ... like doing youtube interviews and wearing jeans.

That's interesting to me, because I'm aiming my lifestyle at around the time just before mass consumerism entered the world; like a bit before plastics, but with some electricity and limited oil. Call it early 1920s level. I am, of course, being a giant hypocrite about it.

In terms of hypocrisy I think there's a difference between living consistently according to some other era or values or working to change the current era and values with the greatest amount of efficacy. The latter requires some contact with both eras or lifestyles. ERE has the same conflict between consumerism and anti-consumerism when one is literally investing the surplus of one's non-consumerism in companies that promote consumerism. It's practically impossible not to. Therefore I think that some "exchange of goods" between the now and the future is perfectly valid. It's similar to the exchange between the now and the past when discovering a tribe in the amazons. It's possible to reject the values of something yet still deal with it. It's hard to enact any change by completely rejecting "the other".

I like the quip that insofair one is accused of being a hypocrite, one is not aiming high enough.

User avatar
jennypenny
Posts: 6329
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Stepford USA

Re: The Moneyless Manifesto

Post by jennypenny »

KK has an old blog post on the Technium about the Amish that relates to accusations of lifestyle hypocrisy. They (the Amish) don't shun all technology, they are just very choosy about which kinds they let into their lives and to what extent.

I don't see it as lifestyle hypocrisy so much as living by playground rules ('make it up as you go along'). Gimmicky, rule-based lifestyles become outmoded quickly whereas playground lifestyles, by their very nature, are always current*. Besides, the people crying hypocrisy often assume rules from their limited observations that the individual never articulated or placed upon themselves.


*and most resilient, and easiest with which to comply.

Post Reply