Economy In A Box; Open Source Ecology

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Steve Austin
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Post by Steve Austin »

Inspirational on its own, this pertains to the ERE REIT and Nullhof topics. And it may knock you on yo azz:
http://vimeo.com/13020225
I need to take a closer look at the slides from the presentation, but could not immediately find them. If someone locates the link to the slides, please post here.


jacob
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Post by jacob »

Ugh .. the video loads horribly on my end.
The main problem is the assumption of cheap electricity, cheap aluminum, and cheap silicon. Take away fossil fuels and this foundation is likely to be very expensive.
[I think the "we could supply the world's entire energy use by panels the size of a small island is akin to the the world's population could fit into the state of Texas. It's not geographic footprint that's at issue. It's the energy footprint.]
However, show me a bootstrapping operation that mines its own aluminum and makes its own silicon based on PV panels or windmills it made and I'll absolutely buy into it.
For reference: Making 1kg of aluminum requires 16kWh. 40% of the cost of PV panels are due to the cost of electricity. Given that it takes 2+ decades for a PV setup to earn itself back in dollars, it may be pretty hard to bootstrap the PV panels energy wise as well, taking 0.4*20=8 years just to recover the energy presuming that the other materials like glass is free.


jacob
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Post by jacob »

One of my main points of worrying is "overtechnologizing" or the fallacy that "we can make it if we can imagine/intellectualize/abstract it". The further away from direct reality a person exists, the more dangerous it is.
I have a ranked list from worst to best

Consumer

Economist

Computer programmer

Engineer

Scientist

Ecologist


Experience has taught me to be optimistically suspicious about any concept originating above the scientist/ecology level :-)


jacob
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Post by jacob »

That is not to say I don't find these concepts quite fascinating from an economic independence perspective and it could/would/should very well be the next step [after ERE].
My main concern above is whether it is actually sustainable in an ecological sense.


Q
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Post by Q »

Coke now recycles all its cans - I wonder how much and how large scale that process is...


Steve Austin
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Post by Steve Austin »

ERE, I believe the dude giving the presentation in the video is a Level 5. Scientist, Physics Ph.D. Not sure about his ecology credentials.


jacob
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Post by jacob »

Let's see a bootstrapping system. We already know that 40% of the cost of the PV panel is electricity. Now, can the other 60% double the number of PV panels while leaving something to build the rest of the structure.
Note that I don't doubt the commercial application of this system in the present world. It's essentially replacing an assembly line system of mass production with an open source robot that can do everything.
What I'm wondering is whether it can technologically support itself without relying on cheap oil, refined aluminum and silicon.
Is the openfarm energetically cheaper?
I think the question is similar to comparing a computer with a guy with a typewriter. The computer is cheaper in $$$, but it is more expensive to build and maintain compared to a human + type writer. See where I'm going with this?


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