Wannabe ERE

[Triangle]

Hey there,

I love the ERE idea and liked the book. I've always had somewhat different priorities than most other people and never understood why people watch TV (let alone BUY one), pay enormous amounts for phones and contracts, or spend $50 in a bar.

The things I do waste money on are housing (try living in San Francisco and not waste money on housing), unhealthy eating and fast cars ($120 in gas for a 2 hour joyride, anyone?)

I have in the past lived in very cheap apartments and have eaten eggs & bacon for months at a time, so I know I can totally live frugally even in those areas. I'm just very prone to laziness and outside influences, i.e. if the apartments near my work all cost $2000, I'll get one instead of commuting 1 hour each way for a $1000 apartment. And if the fast food place is really close while the reasonably priced grocery store is far away, I will eat fast food every day.

So in a way, for me, living frugally is all about positioning myself so my everyday, default decisions are biased towards being the "right" (=frugal and healthy) ones.

Another thing is that I don't trust any investment vehicles, I think. Housing? Yea right. Stocks & bonds? All casino games, ruled by the big players. Gold? Just crashed. Cash? Inflation. Where would I even put my money?

I'm hoping to get more on the ERE bandwagon over time, as some of the ideas overlap broadly with things like minimalism (I just moved with a backpack and a suitcase), which I already like, and certain spending preferences that I exhibit. Living in San Francisco is expensive, but wages are also very high there. So I think it should be possible to pull myself together and get it going if I give it a systematic approach.

PS: When you guys talk about your savings rate, are you talking pre-tax or post-tax? Just so I can compare. Over the last years, I've had an average savings rate of 25%, taxes included as "cost of living" because I get roads and police in exchange and I could technically reduce them by moving. So 25% pre-tax. This includes a very expensive SF apartment, joyriding and eating out & snacking a lot. So I should be able to get that a lot higher relatively easily.

[jacob]

Most use post-tax to calculate their savings and don't include taxes as an expense. However, if you can seriously manipulate/control the taxes you pay (business owner with write-offs and deductions, etc. that change your cost-of-living (e.g. all eating and most sleeping is practically a business expense) I'd use pre-tax and include taxes as an expense.

If you're paying off a mortgage, you can use the principal payments as savings if you use the interest as expense.

[vivacious]

Dude why don't you just move? If you really want to save money SF probably isn't the place to do it. You could go to one of the neighboring towns and commute in for a few minutes. It shouldn't be too hard.

You don't "need" a car in SF either.

So pick one or the other. That should be a pretty big savings right there.

[Triangle]

Yea, I think moving is definitely the #1 thing I can do to reduce costs. Thing is that even the neighboring towns aren't exactly dirt cheap. I have friends who commute an hour each way, and they still pay $1000 for a very cheap place. Cause the neighboring towns are places like Berkeley, Oakland and Palo Alto.

[mindfulmonk]

Is there any way you can split your SF apartment with somebody? You sometimes need to look off the beaten path to get the "extreme" deals. Might not be something you're interested in, but maybe. $1k a month savings would be a lot if you split your rent.

[Triangle]

Oh, I was actually splitting apartments and still paid $1500/mo in rent just for the one room. A whole apartment would be way more than that - friend pays $2800 for a 1BR.

[mxlr650]

Oh, I was actually splitting apartments and still paid $1500/mo in rent just for the one room. A whole apartment would be way more than that - friend pays $2800 for a 1BR.

Unless the area of your work is specific to SF (Financial or Legal), there are tons of options - Daly City, Foster City, San Jose etc. There are boat loads of (extremely) high paying jobs in and around San Jose. I never understood why anyone would live in SF - living there would a raw deal for me.

[Triangle]

If I move to San Jose, I may as well move to China. Makes barely a difference to me. There is a certain quality-of-life thing to San Francisco. I'm just starting to wonder if it's worth the money I'm paying for it.

[mxlr650]

If I move to San Jose, I may as well move to China [...] There is a certain quality-of-life thing to San Francisco.

Wow, seriously?

When I visit SF, all I see is a concrete jungle overcrowded with people, bars, restaurants, and shopping malls -- not to mention drunkards and homeless people (who also happen to run the city) - in other words another hub for the advancement of consumer culture . Yea, there is ocean front, some nice parks, but it is no Carmel-by-the-sea or even Santa cruz.

Think about living in Fremont or suburbs (if you hate SJ so much) and visit SF on weekends if you like it so much. Gosh, with the money saved you could even visit an exotic Island every 4 months.

[Triangle]

SF has a certain metropolitan aspect that I love about big cities. Even LA doesn't have that, although it's much bigger. Manhattan has it. It feels bigger than it is. There's many aspects of, let's call it diversity, that I like.

Is it worth the astronomic rent? That's what I'm currently conflicted about.
And yea, SF is inhabited and run by crazy people.

[anomie]

or spend $50 in a bar.

then please share with us your ERE methods of having a good time in a SF ( or any) bar!

....

And San Francisco is literally one of the places we were in when I told my DW "I would be glad to work my whole life if I could live here" ....

so I do understand somewhat your dilemna ...

(I have lived in the Midwest and other equiv sh**ho**s for the past 14 years)

[Triangle]

First, SF has very large income discrepancies. This is mirrored in the different areas of the city. You can buy a sandwich for $12 in SoMa or trendy parts of the mission, or you can buy a whole dinner for $5 in Chinatown or other poorer parts of the city.

While there's a lot of people just dumping their money, there's also a lot of people who make 1/3 of what I make and still have a good time. Find friends whose idea of a good time includes board games, potlucks and productive hobbies instead of binge-drinking and buying gadgets.

[RealPerson]

If I move to San Jose, I may as well move to China. Makes barely a difference to me. There is a certain quality-of-life thing to San Francisco. I'm just starting to wonder if it's worth the money I'm paying for it.

Often the things that make a place great to visit make it not such a great place to live. SF seems to be such a place. I love visiting SF but I honestly love to come back home to enjoy my daily lifestyle. There are many wonderful places to live and save money. You can visit SF, NYC, Miami or any of the other great places around the world and spend what is in your budget. I was in NYC recently and enjoyed myself tremendously. Upon returning home, I savored the memory of the visit but was reminded of how great of a place I actually live. Maybe time to broaden the horizon and save at the same time?

[Triangle]

I've definitely been thinking about it. Main thing is the job