ERE country : Portugal

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frugal
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Post by frugal » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:08 am

Hi,
I moved to Portugal a few years ago.
I recently discovered ERE, but there are a LOT of information.
Can you please help me saying where to start?
With so many posts to read I become lost.
Thank you.


dragoncar
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Post by dragoncar » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:21 am

Have you gone through the 21 day makeover? (Links can be found at http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wiki/ ... Blog_Index)


secretwealth
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Post by secretwealth » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:53 am

Honestly, I recommend starting with the book, although it is quite heavy. Also check out the "Manifesto" and "How I became financially independent" and "How I live on $7,000 per year".


BeyondtheWrap
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Post by BeyondtheWrap » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:21 am

@frugal: What aspect of ERE do you find most attractive? Knowing that would help us recommend a direction for you.


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frugal
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Post by frugal » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:56 pm

dragoncar : i'll search the link, that is incorrect.
So much things to read...
secretwealth: book I'll read later, let me have some more tips before :)
BeyondtheWrap: to avoid corporate strange&bad life.
The main problem will be family and society understand the ERE.
Thank you all and regards!


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frugal
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Post by frugal » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:55 pm

Hi,
what I need more than tips is the construction of a new mindset to turn ERE.
What shall I read to inspire me and give me more and more points to help me changing way to live to ERE.
Thanks.


Hoplite
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Post by Hoplite » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:01 pm

For inspiration and some underlying philosophy, a good place to start is with the books Jacob listed here:
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/my-li ... books.html
Some of these may appeal to you more than others. I also like Seneca:

http://www.tripinsurancestore.com/4/on- ... f-life.pdf


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frugal
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Post by frugal » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:50 pm

Still so much stuff to read...
I will take a few years :-/
Send me pdf privately if you have.


MDFIRE2024
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Re:

Post by MDFIRE2024 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:17 pm

Hi Frugal,

are you back at the ERE-forum? I have seen that your last post (beside the one in my journal) was a few years ago.

How are thing going? Still living in Portugal?

Regards

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frugal
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Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by frugal » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:48 pm

Yes...

I am searching new project to fullfill my days and my mind.

A new activity.

A new purpose of life.

It is not easy.

Thanks

liberty
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Location: Oslo (Norway)

Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by liberty » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:00 pm

Me too searching for a new project...

You are still in Portugal?
What you work with?

MDFIRE2024
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Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by MDFIRE2024 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:17 am

frugal wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:48 pm
I am searching new project to fullfill my days and my mind.

A new activity.

A new purpose of life.
Read the book: "How to retire happy, wild and free". It is not just for retiring but also for living. It helped me a lot, especially with the following two techniques: Get-a-life-tree and Ultimate Life's Adventure List. You can google them as well.

Regarding your 500k€ you need. (Whats your number thread) --> You need Passive Income Streams which generate you income. Look for different portfolio asset allocations if you don't want to invest into the real estate business.

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frugal
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Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by frugal » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:46 pm

[quote=liberty
yes

being so many years on same job, it is hard...

MDFIRE2024
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Location: Germany

Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by MDFIRE2024 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:34 am

frugal wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:46 pm
being so many years on same job, it is hard...
Could you change your job?

Another way could be to show your monthly costs, in order to try to give you some ERE-ideas or -inspirations.

Have you analyzed the Big3 already?
-Housing ... € p.month.p.Person
-Food ... € p.month.p.Person
-Transport/Mobility ... € p.month.p.Person

and what's about:
-Entertainment
-...

If you provide more information about your situataion, maybe there could be some improvements.

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Josué
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Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by Josué » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:32 am

Have I read that you need 500k€ to retire in Portugal?

I think you can do with much much less. I actually think the "7k/year" would be fairly easy in Portugal. Personally, my portfolio goal for retiring in Portugal is 10k€/year on a 4% withdrawal rate (WR), i.e. a 250k portfolio. It's a goal that I feel is quite feasible and keeps me motivated, however I don't plan to pull the plug immediately and plan to accumulate a bit more (to achieve a WR that is as low as possible).

Some of the reasons why I think it wouldn't be too difficult to manage with 7k/y:
  • Housing is cheap in Portugal (except for Lisbon right now) and gets cheaper as you move away from the main cities. There's many beautiful small villages throughout the country where you could live cheaply (close to sea, mountains, or in the woods, there's a lot to choose from)
  • Owing to the fantastic weather, it's really easy to grow stuff in Portugal, so if you're willing you can rely on agriculture for a sizeable chunk of your basic food needs (likely with leftover produce)
  • It's cheap. A cup of great espresso in your average 'café bar' will cost you 0.65€ and you can have great meals for 5€ in modest places.
But I guess you know these things already, since you've been living there for quite some time. I'm just wondering why 500k should be your goal. On a 4% WR this yields 20k€/year. I don't like to throw numbers around without data to back me up, but I suspect that more than half of the population lives with less than that.

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Seppia
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Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by Seppia » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:59 am

Maybe because 4% WR is seen as too high.
I'm in Italy, which shares many of the pluses of Portugal (cheap, good weather and food, plenty to see and do by staying local...), and with our taxation, crazy bureaucracy and generally higher potential for instability I feel like we need more than 4%

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frugal
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Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by frugal » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:27 am

[quote=MDFIRE2024
I would say that to keep a good life we would need about 1.500 EUR

We can decrease some expenses and eliminate others and achieve 1.000 EUR / month.

All big items are paid, like house and cars.
Last edited by frugal on Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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frugal
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Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by frugal » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:31 am

[quote=Josué

I think you are right.

But I am too :-)

I prefer to have double what is necessary.

This is a good safety margin.

We never know what will be the return of our passive investments , correct?

What if the next 10 years we have a recession?

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frugal
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Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by frugal » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:33 am

you need more than 4% or more amount invested?

liberty
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Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by liberty » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:36 pm

[quote=frugal
Double of what is needed? "Safety margin", recessions etc is already taken into account in the SWR. A 3% SWR has worked all 30 years periods, even starting on the worst possible times, while 4% has worked 88% of the time. I suggest you use 3% SWR, without any additional safety margin.

What are your current expences? Housing, food, transport etc?

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Josué
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Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by Josué » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:12 pm

Seppia wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:59 am
Maybe because 4% WR is seen as too high.
I'm in Italy, which shares many of the pluses of Portugal (cheap, good weather and food, plenty to see and do by staying local...), and with our taxation, crazy bureaucracy and generally higher potential for instability I feel like we need more than 4%
Even if 4% is high, I see no need to go as low as 2%...

I'm also based in Italy :) I don't understand how you think the bureaucracy affects the SWR, and I also don't see the relation to instability (political I suppose?). I take the taxation argument though.

Actually since we are on the topic, the most intriguing thing to me about Italy is how it didn't develop yet to be a country as prosperous as its northern neighbours, since it has a sizeable industry and a tremendous influx of tourists...

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Seppia
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Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by Seppia » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:16 pm

Wow, fellow Italians? I thought I was alone on this forum.
Italy's governments just cannot be trusted to provide the same amount of stability and predictability as other more developed nations.
Just to give an example we went in just a few years from having one of the most favorable taxations on financial assets to a much worse one.
Up until 2014, capital gains and dividends were taxed only 12.5%, now it's 26% PLUS a 0.2% tax every single year on all the financial assets that one owns.
The 0.2% is massive, and gets taken out of any WR, and this change happened basically overnight.

So one has to factor in the unpredictability.

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frugal
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Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by frugal » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:55 am

[quote=liberty
Ok !

3% using which passive portfolio?

Regards

liberty
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Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by liberty » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:04 am

[quote=frugal

Ok !

3% using which passive portfolio?

Regards
[/quote]

A combination of stocks and bonds. Play around with https://portfoliocharts.com/portfolio/r ... -spending/ . Set "Constant $" which means that you take out the original amount every year adjusted for inflation.

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Josué
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Re: ERE country : Portugal

Post by Josué » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:34 am

[quote=Seppia

Nope, not Italian, ma vivo in Italia da un po' :) Do you live in the North, Center, South?

I see, I didn't know about those taxes, indeed 12.5% used to be very good.

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