Yo.
I'm a danish dentist who decided that the normal 9-5 4ever, save up 10% for retirement bollocks wasn't for me.
Yo from MyCountry!
@ktn: Actually, I'd bet that living an early-retired life in Denmark is reasonably easy, the hardest bit perhaps risking a certain social exclusion, which is rougher in tribal Denmark than in the US, say. You have free medical health coverage, good infrastructure (like dedicated bicycle lanes) and small distances, and food can be found quite cheaply. Cheap housing is available in smaller towns or in rural areas, and there are many good libraries and as well as many other public services (eg., want to learn all about whisky? Just sign up for a free wiskey-tasting course! 
). University education is free, as is a trade training, and so on and so forth. You could easily find plenty to do with your time...
About the high taxes: there is a fairly high tax-free threshhold, about $7000, and the taxes are incrementally raised thereafter. Therefore, if your income is low, then you'll hardly be taxed at all, and you won't have to worry about medical insurance either.
). University education is free, as is a trade training, and so on and so forth. You could easily find plenty to do with your time...About the high taxes: there is a fairly high tax-free threshhold, about $7000, and the taxes are incrementally raised thereafter. Therefore, if your income is low, then you'll hardly be taxed at all, and you won't have to worry about medical insurance either.
True; Danish culture is very communal and emphasises fitting in. This follows naturally from the tribal nature of Danes - but that doesn't make it easier for those of us who don't fit in and don't necessarily want to On the other hand, Danish culture places very strong emphasis on status, to the point of it often being a stronger currency than money. Being job-less is usually low-status, but choosing to be job-less and doing something useful or trendy or interesting instead of working for pay would very likely give more status than a normal job. Or you could get cheap high-status by slumming it in Christania (the "free"/occupied hippy part of Copenhagen), say 
... though I'd hate it and they'd hate me.
On the other hand, Danish culture places very strong emphasis on status, to the point of it often being a stronger currency than money. Being job-less is usually low-status, but choosing to be job-less and doing something useful or trendy or interesting instead of working for pay would very likely give more status than a normal job. Or you could get cheap high-status by slumming it in Christania (the "free"/occupied hippy part of Copenhagen), say ... though I'd hate it and they'd hate me.@ktn: So far I've been very active in anti-establishment living.
Back in 2007 when I graduated as a dentist housing prices was going through the roof and there was an incredible amount af houses being bought and sold. Everyone I knew was going: "We've bought this great house/flat, what are you buying?" The implicated thought was that I WAS buying, which I wasn't. I wouldn't say that I foresaw the housingbubble, but I couldn't help to notice that prices kept rising at accelerating pace for no good reason. To me that indicated that prices where elevated, and since I didn't really need to jump on the band-wagon (who does?) I decideed to hang back for a bit and see what happened.
Clever me, most of my friends are down 40.000$ -> 120.000$ because housing prices plumeted. I'm not.
That being said, I wasn't much of a genius with my personal finance back in 2007. Despite spending a full 2 years as an army sergeant and despite the state paying you 1.000$/month to take an (free) education, I graduated with a debt of 30.000$, which quickly grew to 60.000$ because I "needed" a car for going to my job and "needed" furniture for my new (rented) appartment.
For the first year, I didn't give much thought to my finances, I payed my bills and repaid the debt as planned (10-year and 13-year plan). I was very busy with everything that was new given my new social status (dentist is rather high status in Denmark), the money and especially with being a dentist full time. (Work, Work!)
After about a year, things came to a head, and I left my first job in a disagreement with the boss. Spending 3 months involuntary summer holiday thinking about my job so far, my economy, my social status and why it all felt wrong led me to question the wisdom of spending 5 years in university so that I could spend the next 30years slaving 45 hours a week to pay bills. I became determined to do better for my self.
I did however still have to pay the bills, and the debt hadn't budged much as most of my monthly payments where just interest. Back to work. Having secured my next job 300m from where I live I decided to sell the car because I had an ugly -800$/month staring at me from my bank statements. Friends where in an uproar: "You're selling the car? Now you can't live without one!" One friend even inquired if I needed help shaking some sort of abuse sinceI wanted to sell my car for cash. (!)
(Note that it was the smallest Toyota model available in Denmark at the time. The state puts +250% on the price of all cars and +100% on the price of gasoline.)
That helped a lot, it insta-killed 16.000$ of debt and strangled the -800$/month from paying off debt, paying insurance and gas, etc. Work still sucked though. I love doing dentistry, but I hate the way public dental care is "structured" in Denmark. Lousy bosses didn't help much either. And I still wasn't really feeling much difference in my economy. Looking over my bank statements it began to dawn on me that even though I was a succesfull member of one of the highest paid professions in Denmark, being a bit careless with my money had left me where it would likely take 3-4years of full time employment to dig out of the debt. I was sweating cold when I realised that. Not only because it meant I had to go back to doing something I should have loved in conditions I abhor and stay there for 3-4 more years, but also because the implications for people of lesser incomes with debt where startling to me.
I did however decide that enough was enough. I was determined to not only rid myself of debt, but I swore that I would never take on debt again ever. If there was one thing I wish I had learned earlier it was this: Debt is bad, m'kay?
(@jacob: You wrote about good debt and bad debt in one of you posts? I totally agree: All debts are bad.)
At any rate, that was when my thoughts about economy sparked in earnest. I decided to look at me credit card statements in a very analytical way. I pulled them into .xml format and started to moved the different parts into seperate collums. One called debt, one called housing, etc. I was scared because I realised that a monthly salary of 12.000$ (5.000$ after taxes) would be gone 30 days later, and I didn't have much clue how. (!)
I found out to my dismay that I spend more that 15% of what was left after scheduled debt payments, rent and other monthly payments on candy and soda! (Way to go dentist!) I spent another 15% on alcohol in bars and the rest sort of dribbed away on purchasing stuff and traveling to and from Copenhagen where most of my friends live. Seriously, that wasn't going to cut it.
First of I dithced the candy and soda. Seeing what that crap does to you teeth if you're not extremely good with dental hygiene should have scared me away a long time ago, but I guess old habits die hard. Died it did. Alcohol went the same way. My younger brother once said (while drunk): "Man, if alcohol was invented today it would be SO illegal. It makes people do some exremely stupid and dangerous things - and it's a neurotoxin to boot!" The decision to ditch alcohol had been a long time comming, because I'm very bad at drinking moderately - I often go completely overboard when I drink alcohol. Seeing that I was spending a full 15% of my "available" budget each month made my heart sink. So I slashed it. It took a bit of explaining with my mates, since I used to be the first to suggest a night out and the last to go home. Totally stopping alcohol from one day to another was a surprise to them. Mildly speaking.
(Note: Alcohol and refined sugar are taxed in Denmark)
Somehow kicking two bad habits was a big deal to me emotionally. I think the stickingpoint is that in order to reform, you'll have to admit to yourself that you did wrong. It was a big deal to me, I was ecstatic when the decision was made and I'm very happy with it today.
Economically speaking it didn't do much difference, since most of my money was going towards regular payments and not towards random comsumption of edibles and drinks. What really did make a difference was that I cleaned out in the regular-payments department and started to agressively pay down my debt with whatever money available. (To the point of taking a bag of nickels and dimes to the bank!) I dropped my working-ability-insurance, my dentist-union membership, my membership of the local gym, my monthly subscription to fileplanet, and a few other small monthly subscriptions. (Kept my World of Warcraft subscription. EU-server Runetotem: Human Priest "Windfeld") Having cancelled most monthly payments I also changed a few because I could get the same internet speed for fewer money, cheaper phone plan etc. Now we where getting somewhere. This was all in december 2009, and my monthly payments have tumbled downwards ever since. I'm expecting to break free of debt sometime between december this year and february next year.
(I'll be turning 30 next february - debtfree!)
Along the way I've picked up a few perks. I've gone from being a spendthrift to being a miser. I shop for loss-leader promotions and improvise my food accordingly, just like Jacob, and bake my own bread. (Insanely cheap bread) I never eat candy or drink soda unless offered, I never drink alcohol, period. I workout by running and doing kettlebells. I don't think I'll ever own a car again, and I'm actively seeking employment with fewer hours now.
(Fewer hours = less income = less tax^2 = higher efficiency)
@Britz:
Very true. Denmark is not the worst place to be gunning for early retirement in, since there are lots of freebies. Healthcare is a rather usefull one and as you pointed out there are rather cheap accomodation available - but isn't that true for all countries?
The problem Denmark poses for an early retire is the heavy tax on all income, wether based on work or investment. Kapital gains are taxes (should that be penalised?) at 50%, which means that you'd have to get you hands on twice the money before you retire. Since work is taxed (penalised?) at 60%, you'd have to work quite a bit to acrue that amount of money.
Back in 2007 when I graduated as a dentist housing prices was going through the roof and there was an incredible amount af houses being bought and sold. Everyone I knew was going: "We've bought this great house/flat, what are you buying?" The implicated thought was that I WAS buying, which I wasn't. I wouldn't say that I foresaw the housingbubble, but I couldn't help to notice that prices kept rising at accelerating pace for no good reason. To me that indicated that prices where elevated, and since I didn't really need to jump on the band-wagon (who does?) I decideed to hang back for a bit and see what happened.
Clever me, most of my friends are down 40.000$ -> 120.000$ because housing prices plumeted. I'm not.
That being said, I wasn't much of a genius with my personal finance back in 2007. Despite spending a full 2 years as an army sergeant and despite the state paying you 1.000$/month to take an (free) education, I graduated with a debt of 30.000$, which quickly grew to 60.000$ because I "needed" a car for going to my job and "needed" furniture for my new (rented) appartment.
For the first year, I didn't give much thought to my finances, I payed my bills and repaid the debt as planned (10-year and 13-year plan). I was very busy with everything that was new given my new social status (dentist is rather high status in Denmark), the money and especially with being a dentist full time. (Work, Work!)
After about a year, things came to a head, and I left my first job in a disagreement with the boss. Spending 3 months involuntary summer holiday thinking about my job so far, my economy, my social status and why it all felt wrong led me to question the wisdom of spending 5 years in university so that I could spend the next 30years slaving 45 hours a week to pay bills. I became determined to do better for my self.
I did however still have to pay the bills, and the debt hadn't budged much as most of my monthly payments where just interest. Back to work. Having secured my next job 300m from where I live I decided to sell the car because I had an ugly -800$/month staring at me from my bank statements. Friends where in an uproar: "You're selling the car? Now you can't live without one!" One friend even inquired if I needed help shaking some sort of abuse sinceI wanted to sell my car for cash. (!)
(Note that it was the smallest Toyota model available in Denmark at the time. The state puts +250% on the price of all cars and +100% on the price of gasoline.)
That helped a lot, it insta-killed 16.000$ of debt and strangled the -800$/month from paying off debt, paying insurance and gas, etc. Work still sucked though. I love doing dentistry, but I hate the way public dental care is "structured" in Denmark. Lousy bosses didn't help much either. And I still wasn't really feeling much difference in my economy. Looking over my bank statements it began to dawn on me that even though I was a succesfull member of one of the highest paid professions in Denmark, being a bit careless with my money had left me where it would likely take 3-4years of full time employment to dig out of the debt. I was sweating cold when I realised that. Not only because it meant I had to go back to doing something I should have loved in conditions I abhor and stay there for 3-4 more years, but also because the implications for people of lesser incomes with debt where startling to me.
I did however decide that enough was enough. I was determined to not only rid myself of debt, but I swore that I would never take on debt again ever. If there was one thing I wish I had learned earlier it was this: Debt is bad, m'kay?
(@jacob: You wrote about good debt and bad debt in one of you posts? I totally agree: All debts are bad.)
At any rate, that was when my thoughts about economy sparked in earnest. I decided to look at me credit card statements in a very analytical way. I pulled them into .xml format and started to moved the different parts into seperate collums. One called debt, one called housing, etc. I was scared because I realised that a monthly salary of 12.000$ (5.000$ after taxes) would be gone 30 days later, and I didn't have much clue how. (!)
I found out to my dismay that I spend more that 15% of what was left after scheduled debt payments, rent and other monthly payments on candy and soda! (Way to go dentist!) I spent another 15% on alcohol in bars and the rest sort of dribbed away on purchasing stuff and traveling to and from Copenhagen where most of my friends live. Seriously, that wasn't going to cut it.
First of I dithced the candy and soda. Seeing what that crap does to you teeth if you're not extremely good with dental hygiene should have scared me away a long time ago, but I guess old habits die hard. Died it did. Alcohol went the same way. My younger brother once said (while drunk): "Man, if alcohol was invented today it would be SO illegal. It makes people do some exremely stupid and dangerous things - and it's a neurotoxin to boot!" The decision to ditch alcohol had been a long time comming, because I'm very bad at drinking moderately - I often go completely overboard when I drink alcohol. Seeing that I was spending a full 15% of my "available" budget each month made my heart sink. So I slashed it. It took a bit of explaining with my mates, since I used to be the first to suggest a night out and the last to go home. Totally stopping alcohol from one day to another was a surprise to them. Mildly speaking.
(Note: Alcohol and refined sugar are taxed in Denmark)
Somehow kicking two bad habits was a big deal to me emotionally. I think the stickingpoint is that in order to reform, you'll have to admit to yourself that you did wrong. It was a big deal to me, I was ecstatic when the decision was made and I'm very happy with it today.
Economically speaking it didn't do much difference, since most of my money was going towards regular payments and not towards random comsumption of edibles and drinks. What really did make a difference was that I cleaned out in the regular-payments department and started to agressively pay down my debt with whatever money available. (To the point of taking a bag of nickels and dimes to the bank!) I dropped my working-ability-insurance, my dentist-union membership, my membership of the local gym, my monthly subscription to fileplanet, and a few other small monthly subscriptions. (Kept my World of Warcraft subscription. EU-server Runetotem: Human Priest "Windfeld") Having cancelled most monthly payments I also changed a few because I could get the same internet speed for fewer money, cheaper phone plan etc. Now we where getting somewhere. This was all in december 2009, and my monthly payments have tumbled downwards ever since. I'm expecting to break free of debt sometime between december this year and february next year.
(I'll be turning 30 next february - debtfree!)
Along the way I've picked up a few perks. I've gone from being a spendthrift to being a miser. I shop for loss-leader promotions and improvise my food accordingly, just like Jacob, and bake my own bread. (Insanely cheap bread) I never eat candy or drink soda unless offered, I never drink alcohol, period. I workout by running and doing kettlebells. I don't think I'll ever own a car again, and I'm actively seeking employment with fewer hours now.
(Fewer hours = less income = less tax^2 = higher efficiency)
@Britz:
Very true. Denmark is not the worst place to be gunning for early retirement in, since there are lots of freebies. Healthcare is a rather usefull one and as you pointed out there are rather cheap accomodation available - but isn't that true for all countries?
The problem Denmark poses for an early retire is the heavy tax on all income, wether based on work or investment. Kapital gains are taxes (should that be penalised?) at 50%, which means that you'd have to get you hands on twice the money before you retire. Since work is taxed (penalised?) at 60%, you'd have to work quite a bit to acrue that amount of money.
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Robert Muir
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:15 pm
Amazing story Windfeld! I'm curious, how are dividends taxed? Like income? Is there the same $7,000 threshold before taxes are applied?
Just thinking about the bullets you dodged, (upside-down mortgage, whole house full of furniture paid for with credit, second car for spouse and children), gave me a shiver.
It's really funny, (not ha ha), how the post-WWII American consumerist balloon transformed global society.
Just thinking about the bullets you dodged, (upside-down mortgage, whole house full of furniture paid for with credit, second car for spouse and children), gave me a shiver.
It's really funny, (not ha ha), how the post-WWII American consumerist balloon transformed global society.
@Robert Muir:
Well basically all forms of capital income is taxed at 28% until you made 10.000$/year, then it's 48%. Dividends from stock and interest earned are treated seperate from cash earned from buying stocks low and selling high, så you can earn 10.000$ flipping stocks and another 10.000$ on interest and dividends before you'll start paying 48% on the rest.
About the 7.000$ threshold: It's different sizes for all of us. The more interest you pay, and the worse logistics (travel to work) you have, the higher the threshold. (Yes, that means punishing rational economic behavior!) Also worth noting that you still pay 8% tax on wage income below the threshold.
That means there are actually 3 thresholds. You pay 8% on wage income up to 7.000$, 46% on wages above 7.000 but below 80.000$ and 59% on wage income above 80.000$/year. (Add 1% church tax that goes directly to the protestant christian state church. Seperation of church and state? Not in Denmark. Church tax is optional btw. (!))
The danish tax regimen actively punishes you progessively harder the harder you work OR the smarter you work. If you produce results that people want to pay for, you are an enemy of the state and are taxed (read:penalized) at 60%.
Notice that you get to earn 7.000$, give and take, each year with very low taxrate (8%). Combined with 10.000$ each from stockflipping and 10.000$ from interest and dividends, you can get away with 20.000$ after taxes. You can live off that, easily. That's my current aim after going debtfree. Getting those 20.000$ after taxes with as little effort as possible. We'll see how that works and go from there.
I get the same feeling some times. I see friends living the standard life at the full cost, and it horrifies me to see them getting sucked into huge debts to pay off stuff they are never home to enjoy anyway. I bravely ran away, away...
(Actually I think it takes some balls to step down from the consumerist/careerism ring and call it quits. Humans are social animals and we treat anything unconventional as a threat pr default.) I did stand down and run away, and it gives me the shivers to contemplate the horrors I sidestepped in doing so.
Well basically all forms of capital income is taxed at 28% until you made 10.000$/year, then it's 48%. Dividends from stock and interest earned are treated seperate from cash earned from buying stocks low and selling high, så you can earn 10.000$ flipping stocks and another 10.000$ on interest and dividends before you'll start paying 48% on the rest.
About the 7.000$ threshold: It's different sizes for all of us. The more interest you pay, and the worse logistics (travel to work) you have, the higher the threshold. (Yes, that means punishing rational economic behavior!) Also worth noting that you still pay 8% tax on wage income below the threshold.
That means there are actually 3 thresholds. You pay 8% on wage income up to 7.000$, 46% on wages above 7.000 but below 80.000$ and 59% on wage income above 80.000$/year. (Add 1% church tax that goes directly to the protestant christian state church. Seperation of church and state? Not in Denmark. Church tax is optional btw. (!))
The danish tax regimen actively punishes you progessively harder the harder you work OR the smarter you work. If you produce results that people want to pay for, you are an enemy of the state and are taxed (read:penalized) at 60%.
Notice that you get to earn 7.000$, give and take, each year with very low taxrate (8%). Combined with 10.000$ each from stockflipping and 10.000$ from interest and dividends, you can get away with 20.000$ after taxes. You can live off that, easily. That's my current aim after going debtfree. Getting those 20.000$ after taxes with as little effort as possible. We'll see how that works and go from there.
I get the same feeling some times. I see friends living the standard life at the full cost, and it horrifies me to see them getting sucked into huge debts to pay off stuff they are never home to enjoy anyway. I bravely ran away, away...
(Actually I think it takes some balls to step down from the consumerist/careerism ring and call it quits. Humans are social animals and we treat anything unconventional as a threat pr default.) I did stand down and run away, and it gives me the shivers to contemplate the horrors I sidestepped in doing so.
Very interesting story, and good on you for quitting soda/candy especially alcohol - I did that for half a year in Denmark (in order to study properly for the big exam that got me into a phd-programme) and almost lost most of my friends, most of whom could accept, let alone understand, my reasons for abstinence. Come to think of it, many of the sensible streamlining steps that you describe are ones that I have also done but in most cases gotten bad reactions from my friends about. Mainstream is Good: adhere or fuck off. Luckily, I've also got a few friends who could care less about fitting in and, in any case, I'm enough of a hermit that my wife and kids pretty much satisfy my friend-needs
Your description of the Danish tax system is mainly correct, factually (except about car-taxes: they start at about 105% and go up to 180%(?); see http://www.skat.dk/SKAT.aspx?oId=64&vId ... indow=true ... also, due to the high car-taxes, cars are sold somewhat cheaper in Denmark).
However, it is also a little one-sided, so to explain it for possible non-Danish readers: Denmark has a pretty good democracy, where the demos and kratos are very connected and are seen to be almost the same. In other words, you don't have the American dichotomy between Government and the individual. This means, among other things, that Danish laws reflect Danish culture. When it comes to high-income taxes, this boils down to Danes generally in favour of high taxes because 1) they beleive that it's a fair and efficient system; 2) that you get your tax-money's worth in services (low corruption and high trust); and 3) that everyone should work hard but that it's not healthy to work too hard.
This last bit is due to ideals of work-life balance and, more generally, emphasis on life-quality (which, incidentally, is what ERE is really all about). Once you have reached a certain income-saturation and have enough money, you've pretty much maxed out your money-status. After that, you can get status by several other means, including *not* working, for instance by getting reduced work-hours instead of a pay raise.
In other words (as studies have indeed shown), Danish productivity is not dampened by high high-income taxes, because already-rich Danes don't like working for that last $.
Your description of the Danish tax system is mainly correct, factually (except about car-taxes: they start at about 105% and go up to 180%(?); see http://www.skat.dk/SKAT.aspx?oId=64&vId ... indow=true ... also, due to the high car-taxes, cars are sold somewhat cheaper in Denmark).
However, it is also a little one-sided, so to explain it for possible non-Danish readers: Denmark has a pretty good democracy, where the demos and kratos are very connected and are seen to be almost the same. In other words, you don't have the American dichotomy between Government and the individual. This means, among other things, that Danish laws reflect Danish culture. When it comes to high-income taxes, this boils down to Danes generally in favour of high taxes because 1) they beleive that it's a fair and efficient system; 2) that you get your tax-money's worth in services (low corruption and high trust); and 3) that everyone should work hard but that it's not healthy to work too hard.
This last bit is due to ideals of work-life balance and, more generally, emphasis on life-quality (which, incidentally, is what ERE is really all about). Once you have reached a certain income-saturation and have enough money, you've pretty much maxed out your money-status. After that, you can get status by several other means, including *not* working, for instance by getting reduced work-hours instead of a pay raise.
In other words (as studies have indeed shown), Danish productivity is not dampened by high high-income taxes, because already-rich Danes don't like working for that last $.
@Windfeld: "I did stand down and run away, and it gives me the shivers to contemplate the horrors I sidestepped in doing so. "
I know what you mean! Most people don't actually take stock of their situation but follow the common and seemingly safe ways.
It's weird: offer people a free set of clothes, either off the rack from a supermarket or made to suit them by a tailor. I'm fairly sure that most people would choose the tailor-made suit. However, they don't choose to get their own lives to fit properly... even though the "tailored suit" actually costs far less than the "supermarket-rack suit". In money and stress, at least: I suppose that it costs more in awareness, courage, independent action, and often in social fitting-in currency.
Hmm... thinking a little about this: the bulk-production is efficient, so real supermarkets earn more than real tailors do, and if you weren't giving away the suits for free, then the tailored suit would be more expensive than most people could afford. In this sense, a supermarket-type social infrastructure makes sense, especially since it's a co-op supermarket: the people own the social infrastucture. The ideal might actually be for a "top-quality supermarket", which, I suppose is pretty much what the Danish system offers (despite the last decade eroding it). However, people should still try to tailor their own lives whenever feasible, regardless of the quality of the "supermarket". (I hope that these slightly mixed metaphores make any sense! )
In any case, good on you for going your own aware way!
I know what you mean! Most people don't actually take stock of their situation but follow the common and seemingly safe ways.
It's weird: offer people a free set of clothes, either off the rack from a supermarket or made to suit them by a tailor. I'm fairly sure that most people would choose the tailor-made suit. However, they don't choose to get their own lives to fit properly... even though the "tailored suit" actually costs far less than the "supermarket-rack suit". In money and stress, at least: I suppose that it costs more in awareness, courage, independent action, and often in social fitting-in currency.
Hmm... thinking a little about this: the bulk-production is efficient, so real supermarkets earn more than real tailors do, and if you weren't giving away the suits for free, then the tailored suit would be more expensive than most people could afford. In this sense, a supermarket-type social infrastructure makes sense, especially since it's a co-op supermarket: the people own the social infrastucture. The ideal might actually be for a "top-quality supermarket", which, I suppose is pretty much what the Danish system offers (despite the last decade eroding it). However, people should still try to tailor their own lives whenever feasible, regardless of the quality of the "supermarket". (I hope that these slightly mixed metaphores make any sense!
)In any case, good on you for going your own aware way!
@Britz: Thanks for pointing out the inaccuracy in cartaxing.
Also I'd like to comment on this:
"This means, among other things, that Danish laws reflect Danish culture. When it comes to high-income taxes, this boils down to Danes generally in favour of high taxes because 1) they beleive that it's a fair and efficient system; 2) that you get your tax-money's worth in services (low corruption and high trust); and 3) that everyone should work hard but that it's not healthy to work too hard."
I wholeheartedly agree that danish law reflect Danish culture. With any wellworking democracy, laws should become a reflection of the culture of the people.
About 1) and 2) I think you are correct, and I would like to add that this acceptance of and satisfaction with the taxes and welfare state is a consequence of another fact: Most danes are payed by the state!
A full ½ of us is either on welfare of some sort or employed by the state! If you include businesses that have the state as the main customer, that number rises to about 2/3. When 2/3 are paid by the state it should be no surprise that a majority approves of high taxes and are satisfied with the workings of the state.
In regards to 3) I think it goes more like the communist line: "From each according to ability, to each according to need."
The danish version goes more like: "From each according to ability, to each according to social norm." Danish culture is all about trying to establish a homogenous mass of likeminded people who eat the same, work the same hours and spend the same way. Since the majority is allready on that boat it gets self-enforcing via the laws and taxes of the country.
Also I'd like to comment on this:
"This means, among other things, that Danish laws reflect Danish culture. When it comes to high-income taxes, this boils down to Danes generally in favour of high taxes because 1) they beleive that it's a fair and efficient system; 2) that you get your tax-money's worth in services (low corruption and high trust); and 3) that everyone should work hard but that it's not healthy to work too hard."
I wholeheartedly agree that danish law reflect Danish culture. With any wellworking democracy, laws should become a reflection of the culture of the people.
About 1) and 2) I think you are correct, and I would like to add that this acceptance of and satisfaction with the taxes and welfare state is a consequence of another fact: Most danes are payed by the state!
A full ½ of us is either on welfare of some sort or employed by the state! If you include businesses that have the state as the main customer, that number rises to about 2/3. When 2/3 are paid by the state it should be no surprise that a majority approves of high taxes and are satisfied with the workings of the state.
In regards to 3) I think it goes more like the communist line: "From each according to ability, to each according to need."
The danish version goes more like: "From each according to ability, to each according to social norm." Danish culture is all about trying to establish a homogenous mass of likeminded people who eat the same, work the same hours and spend the same way. Since the majority is allready on that boat it gets self-enforcing via the laws and taxes of the country.
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movetoportugal
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:08 pm
@Windfeld: Hehe, good points! The Danish insular form of tribalism/monoculture and the present social-democratic structures reinforce eachother, for good and bad. Hmmm... this makes me wonder about quite a few things, like whether the Danish monoculture has been a domineering force throughout Danish history, assuming various available and suitable political structures along its way etc., and whether royalty and peerage made/makes the state attractive through status, rather off-putting like in many other countries: Etaten became Staten. And much else besides... all very interesting, to me at least... but probably a sign that I'm really sleepy 
The Danish insular form of tribalism/monoculture and the present social-democratic structures reinforce eachother, for good and bad. Hmmm... this makes me wonder about quite a few things, like whether the Danish monoculture has been a domineering force throughout Danish history, assuming various available and suitable political structures along its way etc., and whether royalty and peerage made/makes the state attractive through status, rather off-putting like in many other countries: Etaten became Staten. And much else besides... all very interesting, to me at least... but probably a sign that I'm really sleepy