Start early, really early as you successes will compound dramatically and it takes a long while before you'll see any headway.
Give advice you wish you knew yourself
-Don't strive so hard to be successful.
-The twenties are the most important decade financially speaking.
-Don't equate your success in life with your job.
-Don't be afraid to take a nap.
-Don't do stupid cruises and Disney vacations.
-Don't stay in a career that you hate, except for a set period of time to achieve your goals.
-Don't compare yourself to others.
djc
-The twenties are the most important decade financially speaking.
-Don't equate your success in life with your job.
-Don't be afraid to take a nap.
-Don't do stupid cruises and Disney vacations.
-Don't stay in a career that you hate, except for a set period of time to achieve your goals.
-Don't compare yourself to others.
djc
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jennypenny
- Posts: 6853
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm
With all due respect to everyone who's posted, I'd say don't listen to anyone else. Learn all you can. Think for yourself. Define your own success.
I do agree with "start early" but I'm always hesitant to give that advice. If someone is 30 or 40, telling them to start early is discouraging. Instead I advise people to "start now."
I do agree with "start early" but I'm always hesitant to give that advice. If someone is 30 or 40, telling them to start early is discouraging. Instead I advise people to "start now."
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Beaudacious
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:59 pm
- Contact:
the longer you do something, the better and more efficient you get at it.
You will fail at things, it's part of the process. You rarely do it perfectly the first time.
you have one go around at this life, squeeze as much out of it as possible. So do what is important to you.
alway consider the other side. You often get a view you never thought of.
Question your assumptions. You can do anything if you believe you can, but be careful of your own mental obstacles you put up with out even knowing it. (ERE made me question my assumptions and mental obstacles).
Ask questions. You never know when a person has information they will share that will change either how you do something, what you do, or it may just change your life.
Learn from others, don't reinvent the wheel.
You will fail at things, it's part of the process. You rarely do it perfectly the first time.
you have one go around at this life, squeeze as much out of it as possible. So do what is important to you.
alway consider the other side. You often get a view you never thought of.
Question your assumptions. You can do anything if you believe you can, but be careful of your own mental obstacles you put up with out even knowing it. (ERE made me question my assumptions and mental obstacles).
Ask questions. You never know when a person has information they will share that will change either how you do something, what you do, or it may just change your life.
Learn from others, don't reinvent the wheel.
Wake up every morning and look in the mirror and ask yourself-am I happy doing/living the way I am. If the answer is no more than 5 days in a row-make a change.
KISS. Keep It Simple Stoopid! The best things in life really are free. Friendship, Laughter, Long Walks outside with your dog, holding your wife's hand. These are the things that will energize/restore your soul.
Never pass up the opportunity to make a friend-no matter who they are.
Finally-go for it, and if/when you fail, pick yourself up and press on again, with equal enthusiasm. Never give up.
Blue Skies-Mater
KISS. Keep It Simple Stoopid! The best things in life really are free. Friendship, Laughter, Long Walks outside with your dog, holding your wife's hand. These are the things that will energize/restore your soul.
Never pass up the opportunity to make a friend-no matter who they are.
Finally-go for it, and if/when you fail, pick yourself up and press on again, with equal enthusiasm. Never give up.
Blue Skies-Mater
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jennypenny
- Posts: 6853
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm
Must apologize for the late reply to this thread.
"To give useful advice it would be helpful to know a bit more about you. What Highers are you doing at school? Are you planning on going to University? What kind of career are you interested in? Are you prepared to leave Scotland, at least temporarily, for career opportunities and wealth-building?"
I did English (A), Maths (A), Biology (B), Chemistry (A) and Physics (A). And this year I'm doing Advanced Higher Bio, AH Chem and AH Maths, though I'd prefer to do AH Physics over Bio if I can (which can't be done without going to another school for the class).
As for University, I don't really have any interest in going to it, it doesn't appeal to me and I don't think I'd do well. I wouldn't mind leaving Scotland at all. As for careers, I'm open at the moment, I really don't have much idea.
Now for the rest of the thread, I'm going to read that other linked one after this post. I've started recording how much I spend, and what I spend it on, though of course my sole income is what my Mum decides to give me (based of my chores).
What would you suggest I do in starting now, jennypenny? Like, what should be the first thing I do?
I've been trying to work out how much I cost just right now, but it's pretty difficult. I mean, obviously I don't pay rent or anything. I don't think my food expenditure is over the top, and I don't often go out and splash cash (not very fun for me).
Time to read the other thread now!
Edit: One thing I have been curious at for a while now, is how much those who have completed ERE live on. I understand that it's different for everyone but a general number would be pretty good.
Edit: That was a great thread, lots of the advice I felt applied to me, and I took a lot away from it. One thing though: "Don't argue on the internet", ah but it's so fun!
"To give useful advice it would be helpful to know a bit more about you. What Highers are you doing at school? Are you planning on going to University? What kind of career are you interested in? Are you prepared to leave Scotland, at least temporarily, for career opportunities and wealth-building?"
I did English (A), Maths (A), Biology (B), Chemistry (A) and Physics (A). And this year I'm doing Advanced Higher Bio, AH Chem and AH Maths, though I'd prefer to do AH Physics over Bio if I can (which can't be done without going to another school for the class).
As for University, I don't really have any interest in going to it, it doesn't appeal to me and I don't think I'd do well. I wouldn't mind leaving Scotland at all. As for careers, I'm open at the moment, I really don't have much idea.
Now for the rest of the thread, I'm going to read that other linked one after this post. I've started recording how much I spend, and what I spend it on, though of course my sole income is what my Mum decides to give me (based of my chores).
What would you suggest I do in starting now, jennypenny? Like, what should be the first thing I do?
I've been trying to work out how much I cost just right now, but it's pretty difficult. I mean, obviously I don't pay rent or anything. I don't think my food expenditure is over the top, and I don't often go out and splash cash (not very fun for me).
Time to read the other thread now!
Edit: One thing I have been curious at for a while now, is how much those who have completed ERE live on. I understand that it's different for everyone but a general number would be pretty good.
Edit: That was a great thread, lots of the advice I felt applied to me, and I took a lot away from it. One thing though: "Don't argue on the internet", ah but it's so fun!
It's probably a good idea to get in a habit of tracking expenses, but don't worry about rent, etc. If you want to get an idea of what it would be, look on Craigslist for 1br apartments, or apartments with roommates in your area. Ask your parents how much they pay for utilities and then adjust based on size of house.
As for the number: Jacob says that he lives on $500-600/month, which is 150k-180k saved. That's the low end. My number (much less extreme) is probably between 500k-600k, translating to $1700/month. This is based on 7 months of tracking, I'm not retired yet. I'd feel more comfortable at the upper end, so if I had 600k in the bank I'd strongly consider ERE. My expenses are pretty typical here, except rent is quite high in my area. If I was living in a cheaper place I could probably pull $1200/month, which translates to $360k saved.
If you're still curious, look in the journals. People post monthly expenses. Just multiply those by 12 and divide by .04 to get total savings necessary at a 4% rate of return.
As for the number: Jacob says that he lives on $500-600/month, which is 150k-180k saved. That's the low end. My number (much less extreme) is probably between 500k-600k, translating to $1700/month. This is based on 7 months of tracking, I'm not retired yet. I'd feel more comfortable at the upper end, so if I had 600k in the bank I'd strongly consider ERE. My expenses are pretty typical here, except rent is quite high in my area. If I was living in a cheaper place I could probably pull $1200/month, which translates to $360k saved.
If you're still curious, look in the journals. People post monthly expenses. Just multiply those by 12 and divide by .04 to get total savings necessary at a 4% rate of return.
"Ask your parents how much they pay for utilities and then adjust based on size of house."
I will find this out tonight, I have always been interested in the bills and such, but my Mum isn't so keen to tell me for some reason, she's relenting though.
"
As for the number: Jacob says that he lives on $500-600/month, which is 150k-180k saved. That's the low end. My number (much less extreme) is probably between 500k-600k, translating to $1700/month"
Average salary here in the UK is $44k. So assuming I spend no money at all I'd have to work for ~4 years to get that, and to get high end it would be 12 years of working, obviously not taking into account interest or expenditure.
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/my-li ... books.html
I was looking at that this list, I was thinking of reading some of that stuff, because I'm pretty new to basically everything, and ignorant of a whole lot more.
I will find this out tonight, I have always been interested in the bills and such, but my Mum isn't so keen to tell me for some reason, she's relenting though.
"
As for the number: Jacob says that he lives on $500-600/month, which is 150k-180k saved. That's the low end. My number (much less extreme) is probably between 500k-600k, translating to $1700/month"
Average salary here in the UK is $44k. So assuming I spend no money at all I'd have to work for ~4 years to get that, and to get high end it would be 12 years of working, obviously not taking into account interest or expenditure.
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/my-li ... books.html
I was looking at that this list, I was thinking of reading some of that stuff, because I'm pretty new to basically everything, and ignorant of a whole lot more.
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Dum spiro spero
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:08 am
Hi RMcD94 - you inspired me to come out of lurking as I'm possibly your nearest ERE neighbour (I'm in Glasgow) and at 28, I'm just about young enough to remember school 
I like your enthusiasm, but I would advise caution on your expectations. $1700/£1062 a month is very high, well beyond the usual ERE range in my opinion. My basic expenses (i.e. rent, tax, utilities and food) in a nice suburb of Glasgow are £550/mth if I cut back to the bone). The rent and bills are split with my fiancee, but I could keep them at this level by renting a bedsit etc. if I was single. ERE strikes me as a combination of low expenses, voluntary simplicity and high assets to have the time to do what you want to do. It's not about supporting a middle class lifestyle as if by magic!
Also, unless I'm doing the maths wrong, your 'number' would be £420,552 assuming a safe withdrawal rate of 3% (£1062*12*33). This equates to roughly $675,000 for all you lovely Americans.
Average salary in the *UK* is lower than you think (£24,024 in June 2011 (roughly $38,438). I got this from the Office of National Statistic's Labour market statistical bulletin. The median figure is probably more accurate (we're not all software developers and fund managers) and this figure was £21,221 ($33,953) for *2010* (see ONS' ASHE (Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings) for 2010. As well as that, average earnings in Scotland are lower again, as the UK figure includes London etc.
Assuming you can get a job that pays the average wage, you will take home roughly £18,467 after tax and NI. With a 75% savings rate it will take you 30 years to reach your target. Of course you will get pay rises over time, but getting a job that pays even the average will take a lot of work. There are relatively few careers that will take someone straight out of school and pay them £24k. It took me until I was 24 to earn this and while I'm not a crazy motivated genius, I have good qualifications, a good CV and not the worst career history ever.
Some things to consider: if you're serious about ERE, start planning now. If you don't want to go to uni (arguably the easiest way/a prerequisite to getting into a highly paid salaried job for most professions in the UK), you will need to find a well paid skilled/non academic post (no slight to any careers, we all do different things for a living!) The sorts of things to consider looking at your studies to date might include engineering type jobs/subjects (for example, Scotland still has a good amount of offshore posts in oil/gas extraction and increasingly, renewable technologies). If I were you (and these sorts of jobs appeal), I'd start researching apprenticeships with some of the larger firms and pestering your school careers advisor for information.
On the other hand, if you do go to uni, there's nothing to stop you applying for student loans, investing these to kick-start your ERE progress and working hard to get summer placements etc. as you study.
Whatever you decide, best of luck - great to see someone considering the alternatives to a traditional career route so young!
I like your enthusiasm, but I would advise caution on your expectations. $1700/£1062 a month is very high, well beyond the usual ERE range in my opinion. My basic expenses (i.e. rent, tax, utilities and food) in a nice suburb of Glasgow are £550/mth if I cut back to the bone). The rent and bills are split with my fiancee, but I could keep them at this level by renting a bedsit etc. if I was single. ERE strikes me as a combination of low expenses, voluntary simplicity and high assets to have the time to do what you want to do. It's not about supporting a middle class lifestyle as if by magic!
Also, unless I'm doing the maths wrong, your 'number' would be £420,552 assuming a safe withdrawal rate of 3% (£1062*12*33). This equates to roughly $675,000 for all you lovely Americans.
Average salary in the *UK* is lower than you think (£24,024 in June 2011 (roughly $38,438). I got this from the Office of National Statistic's Labour market statistical bulletin. The median figure is probably more accurate (we're not all software developers and fund managers) and this figure was £21,221 ($33,953) for *2010* (see ONS' ASHE (Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings) for 2010. As well as that, average earnings in Scotland are lower again, as the UK figure includes London etc.
Assuming you can get a job that pays the average wage, you will take home roughly £18,467 after tax and NI. With a 75% savings rate it will take you 30 years to reach your target. Of course you will get pay rises over time, but getting a job that pays even the average will take a lot of work. There are relatively few careers that will take someone straight out of school and pay them £24k. It took me until I was 24 to earn this and while I'm not a crazy motivated genius, I have good qualifications, a good CV and not the worst career history ever.
Some things to consider: if you're serious about ERE, start planning now. If you don't want to go to uni (arguably the easiest way/a prerequisite to getting into a highly paid salaried job for most professions in the UK), you will need to find a well paid skilled/non academic post (no slight to any careers, we all do different things for a living!) The sorts of things to consider looking at your studies to date might include engineering type jobs/subjects (for example, Scotland still has a good amount of offshore posts in oil/gas extraction and increasingly, renewable technologies). If I were you (and these sorts of jobs appeal), I'd start researching apprenticeships with some of the larger firms and pestering your school careers advisor for information.
On the other hand, if you do go to uni, there's nothing to stop you applying for student loans, investing these to kick-start your ERE progress and working hard to get summer placements etc. as you study.
Whatever you decide, best of luck - great to see someone considering the alternatives to a traditional career route so young!
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Dum spiro spero
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:08 am
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LiquidSapphire
- Posts: 510
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:40 pm
Track all of your expenses and put a decent amount of what's left over into retirement accounts and savings account. Just because you're saving 20% does NOT mean you're doing awesome. 80%-90% is awesome. I could be retired right now.
Roth IRAs are awesome; I should have used one starting with my first crappy summer job in high school.
Marriage is not really supposed to be "hard work". It's work, but work like working on your favorite hobby is work. If you think to yourself "this is the hardest thing I've ever done" or "Is it really supposed to be this hard?" Think long and hard on if that person is really right for you.
Don't do anything if your only reason is based on fear.
I've personally decided that most other people are stupid and I am perfectly capable of thinking through consequences and making my own decisions, thank you very much. Don't follow the crowd. Think for yourself and decide for yourself. If you don't have an example, go look for one, or just be your own example.
And don't be afraid to cut toxic people out of your life, even if you have a long history with them. If there is no point in having them in your life, don't. There's no point in keeping an old friend just because they're an old friend, if they're not really a friend.
Roth IRAs are awesome; I should have used one starting with my first crappy summer job in high school.
Marriage is not really supposed to be "hard work". It's work, but work like working on your favorite hobby is work. If you think to yourself "this is the hardest thing I've ever done" or "Is it really supposed to be this hard?" Think long and hard on if that person is really right for you.
Don't do anything if your only reason is based on fear.
I've personally decided that most other people are stupid and I am perfectly capable of thinking through consequences and making my own decisions, thank you very much. Don't follow the crowd. Think for yourself and decide for yourself. If you don't have an example, go look for one, or just be your own example.
And don't be afraid to cut toxic people out of your life, even if you have a long history with them. If there is no point in having them in your life, don't. There's no point in keeping an old friend just because they're an old friend, if they're not really a friend.
College is probably pointless and expensive.
Understand the premises involved in every theory you consider. Never forget that most realities are socially constructed.
Never do something you don't want to do, ever. Life's too short to spend it killing your soul.
Make every moment beautiful and appreciate the fuck out of it.
Give every single person you meet a reason to remember and like you. This will take you so far.
Cut out abusive people with a vengeance and then don't give them a second thought.
No point in arguing with most people. Nod, smile, "you could be right about that."
Live free or die.
Understand the premises involved in every theory you consider. Never forget that most realities are socially constructed.
Never do something you don't want to do, ever. Life's too short to spend it killing your soul.
Make every moment beautiful and appreciate the fuck out of it.
Give every single person you meet a reason to remember and like you. This will take you so far.
Cut out abusive people with a vengeance and then don't give them a second thought.
No point in arguing with most people. Nod, smile, "you could be right about that."
Live free or die.
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aussierogue
- Posts: 379
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:02 pm
There is only one biggie for me
Find out who you are as soon as possible.
Do a myers Briggs test as early as possible and "accept the result".
I for one refused to accept what my vocational testers told me at high school. I wernt to one of the leading schools in Australia and to be told at 15 i should be a teacher, philosopher, nurse, writer, journalist was the last thing my competative nature wanted to hear.
I like my mates wanted to be "successful" and that meant status university entry into high income jobs like finance, law and medicine. What there isn't at the end of a myers briggs test is a disclaimer that states "failure to live authentically means unhappiness and inability to be oneself under all circumstances". This scenario is hell......despite making a high income.
I guess in someways this is a very middle class idea....many people dont have the luxury to chose vocations, or to strive for hapiness. I get that. But i do and i am gonna make the most of it
cheers
aussie
Find out who you are as soon as possible.
Do a myers Briggs test as early as possible and "accept the result".
I for one refused to accept what my vocational testers told me at high school. I wernt to one of the leading schools in Australia and to be told at 15 i should be a teacher, philosopher, nurse, writer, journalist was the last thing my competative nature wanted to hear.
I like my mates wanted to be "successful" and that meant status university entry into high income jobs like finance, law and medicine. What there isn't at the end of a myers briggs test is a disclaimer that states "failure to live authentically means unhappiness and inability to be oneself under all circumstances". This scenario is hell......despite making a high income.
I guess in someways this is a very middle class idea....many people dont have the luxury to chose vocations, or to strive for hapiness. I get that. But i do and i am gonna make the most of it
cheers
aussie
+ Choose not to struggle. Look at occupational outlook trends & salaries when choosing a career - STEM (science, technology, engg, math) is big for decades. If cannot cut those fields, college may not mean much of an earnings advantage relative to the time and money expended. Consider skipping college & doing blue collar laborer work - salaries are high, unlikely to be outsourced, nice pensions (gas, electrician, plumber, phone line worker, etc)
+ Do the future value of money calculation (basic finance) to motivate you to find alternatives to big expenses. (loved the luxury car, but would have rather had the $100K+ by the time i am 60!)
+ If raises and retirement pkg are not stellar where you are, ditch & switch jobs every few years to get the big bumps in pay. if you are vested at 5 years, work 5 then go. Be choosy about next job and make the switch COUNT. (works best when in 20s and 30s) Try to apply for jobs 1-2 levels above your current level and start looking long before you really want/need to leave.
+ specializing can be more lucrative than being a generalist in your career
+ Make career networking a key and regular part of your day. The efficient and effective quiet-as-a-mouse worker can get overlooked in raises, promotions, and big opportunities. Mentor and be mentored.
+ Work in a role where you have room to grow. This may mean slightly higher stress for a time until you adapt. You will grow as a person and in your skills in your field.
+ One can say anything to anyone if it is done in the right way (see book "Crucial Conversations"). Work this to your advantage to build strong relationships with open communication at work and at home
+ Many businesses do not outpace the return of a well-purchased leveraged residential or commercial rental property in a nice neighborhood kept for the long term
+ Pay close attention to property taxes when buying real estate. They can skyrocket, decreasing affordability, and homes can be difficult to sell quickly
+ Do the future value of money calculation (basic finance) to motivate you to find alternatives to big expenses. (loved the luxury car, but would have rather had the $100K+ by the time i am 60!)
+ If raises and retirement pkg are not stellar where you are, ditch & switch jobs every few years to get the big bumps in pay. if you are vested at 5 years, work 5 then go. Be choosy about next job and make the switch COUNT. (works best when in 20s and 30s) Try to apply for jobs 1-2 levels above your current level and start looking long before you really want/need to leave.
+ specializing can be more lucrative than being a generalist in your career
+ Make career networking a key and regular part of your day. The efficient and effective quiet-as-a-mouse worker can get overlooked in raises, promotions, and big opportunities. Mentor and be mentored.
+ Work in a role where you have room to grow. This may mean slightly higher stress for a time until you adapt. You will grow as a person and in your skills in your field.
+ One can say anything to anyone if it is done in the right way (see book "Crucial Conversations"). Work this to your advantage to build strong relationships with open communication at work and at home
+ Many businesses do not outpace the return of a well-purchased leveraged residential or commercial rental property in a nice neighborhood kept for the long term
+ Pay close attention to property taxes when buying real estate. They can skyrocket, decreasing affordability, and homes can be difficult to sell quickly