Hi from Scotland

[guitarplayer]

Hi there

I have been a reader of Jacob's writings for a couple of years now, reader of the forum for the past year perhaps. Finally decided to introduce myself and start contributing to the forum / seeking advice of all of you smart people here!

Together with DW we have been based in Scotland for 4.5 years now. I originally come from an EU country while DW is from South America. I, 32, have an MA in Psychology and an MA in Political Science (publicly/scholarship funded) and DW, 29, BSc in Biomedical Engineering (paid off).

Now we work in the care sector which is relatively poorly paid and probably makes us outliers on the forum. It is not that bad financially though in our particular circumstances, read on.

We work with adults with learning disabilities on 60 acres of a beautiful estate in Scotland. We live on site and pay a combined ~£6,240/annum for the accommodation, council tax, bills and (>95% organic, unlimited, vastly vegetarian) food. There is a number of workshop here that we can use (wood workshop, tools from the estate workshop, great walled garden where we learn to grow food, crafts workshop). There are lots of (tuned) pianos that I use for learning to play. The accommodation is two rooms and lots of shared spaces. Some of the shared spaces are normally filled up with the adults with learning disabilities we work with, some spaces are just for staff members.

If the arrangements fits you (it fits us for now), this is an excellent deal and hard to imagine a better one in the UK, maybe living with parents if they are well off.

We earn a combined ~£35-£37k/annum net. We could have saved £30k a year here, however we like to use our time off (7 weeks holidays and days off) going for cycling or walking adventures. We don't spend that much on these overall compared to the average Joe. We like foraging (going to look for mushrooms particularly) and visiting bothies (free basic accommodation in remote areas of Scotland). Sometimes we help out financially our family as well.

Overall, we save around £24k-£20k a year. I did the numbers and it pans out as about 68% savings rate. We keep our finances common.

The spark of thinking about financial independence came from 3 weeks off I had when I was recovering with a fractured arm nearly three years ago. I had lots of time to think about what to do with our saved money and an idea came to gradually buy a portfolio of studios in where I am from (property is much cheaper there than in the UK). But then I started learning about different ways to allocate savings and realised that there are many benefits of investing in stock and shares via ISAs, LISAs and SIPPs as well as DC pension schemes.

At the moment we have over £70k of savings, about £42k is in ISAs (the Dogs of the FTSE), about £10k in overseas property (we don't own the properties themselves, there is a bit of debt ownership and a bit of shares in a company dealing with properties), there will be £8k (turned into £10k) in LISA before April the 5th and the remainder is cash.

We are definitely not in the 'I hate my job but will suffer through it to get to the magic number' situation. I almost want to say that we lead an upper middle class lifestyle here, however I am not sure as I have never been an upper middle class, ha! But we definitely do not deny ourselves anything we feel we need. We like our lifestyle and want to get to FIRE in style

Our situation is slightly curious as we are a mean income household, but we manage to save much more than 50% of our income without any effort. This is due to setting up the circumstances (system?) the way it is. However, our life circumstances are tightly tied to working 40h/week. All the perks (low rent, bills and extremely cheap super good quality food) come together with the job. So if we ever decide to retire/change jobs, the circumstances will change as well.

We did some cycling trips in the past and would not mind cycling around (Europe and beyond?) using warmshowers, Helpx, Workaway, couchsurfing. We both did it in the past and enjoyed it. If we did that, our cost of living would probably stay on the same level or less.

DW is more inclined than me to change the job as what she does now (supporting adults with learning disabilities) is just so far away from what she has been doing back in her home country (working in a lab at uni). I am more okay about the work. But we both value the arrangement, the surrounding + lots of time (no need to do shopping, no need to commute to work).

I am very lucky because DW and I share views on many issues, financial and other. Proper teamwork. Sometimes we talk about setting up a business together, just that we don't know what its content would be!

As we live in Scotland we are both in a position to study part time a Bachelors degree for free in any subject area (thank you Open University!). This would take 6 years though. Once we almost got enrolled into IT/statistics courses but pulled out last minute. We figured, it would take a lot of time and we prefer to learn about wild food growing around Also, we did a lot of studying in the past so I am not sure starting something from a scratch would be satisfying. Perhaps just reading books will work better?

I definitely find it easy to learn stuff on my own, so could school myself in IT/programming which seems to be of high demand atm (but also get a BSc from the Open University). But Teaching or Nursing is in high demand as well, and the UK/Scottish government pays you for getting through the course. DW is thinking about applying for a PhD in AI/bioinformatics. I guess it would mostly be for the challenge and not a career/finance boost move. I do understand it as I almost got into a PhD in Switzerland a few years ago.

Generally, I am keen on the idea of having a skill/qualification that would allow to migrate to another part of the world. I did slow travelling via studying/volunteering for ~4 years before coming to Scotland, that was enjoyable!

Hopefully I will gain some insight from this lovely community about where to go from now! Particularly smart ways of developing the system we live in.

[wolf]

Welcome to the forum! Sounds like a interesting way of life. You combined expenses per annum is quite low.

[guitarplayer]

Thanks! Yup it's pretty unconventional, but hey most people on the forum live unconventionally. About the expenses, I like to think that we get a good value for money.

I think I personally am not very good at pushing very hard to get something particular no matter what. However, I think I am pretty good at positioning myself to pretty easily get some things I want or need or could use somehow.

At the moment how it works is that I have lots of time and resources to develop personally, and the savings are not too bad either. And with the time and resources I would like to get ready for when circumstances change and an opportunity arises to get some other stuff DW and I might enjoy.

[Black and white cat]

Hello and welcome to the forum! It's great to read about how you are combining what sounds like a very interesting lifestyle now with the pursuit of financial independence.

How did you and your partner first get involved in your current line of work? You mentioned the possibility of one or both of you pursuing new opportunities in future. Would you both still be able to stay where you are and both live with low rent etc if one of you went to work elsewhere?

[guitarplayer]

Thanks Black and white cat!

We both came to the UK independently nearly five years ago to do some hard going volunteering work with autistic children for the same organisation. Stayed there for a year which was almost an antithesis of FI considering how much work (time) it involved and that it was not salaried!

Anyhow, we stayed in the field, perhaps through inertia? I mean, we both feel that the work is meaningful in that we enable others lead a more fulfilling/satisfying life. And enable quite directly, so there is a quite instant gratification because someone gets happy, smiling, proud etc. Then on the other hand there is the challenging behaviour as well, but definitely much less of it now than when we worked with children!

The living conditions are pretty much tied to the jobs. There is a slight chance that the organisation would be looking for a unit manager which I could apply for and get (I am now an assistant manager). This would come with something like £200 extra/month and a flat. And since it comes with the flat, my partner would be free to live in it and work elsewhere. But this would likely bring a need for having a car which we don't fancy very much. All in all I don't consider this option that much because it is very unlikely.

[Black and white cat]

That sounds fantastic! And I'm sure that volunteering was pretty much a prerequisite for getting paid jobs in the sector.

I can understand the appeal of primary and secondary teaching. Perhaps you would like to work as a teacher for children/adults with learning disabilities?

[guitarplayer]

I guess it helped to find out we can do the job well. Where I work there is almost always a vacancy for staff, however applicants/new starts are not necessarily always very well suited for it, ergo more work to train them.

I was actually thinking about switching to teaching Mathematics, ha! Mathematics is about the only subject I was always very good at and had a fair share of stats at uni. The UK is so desperate for Mathematics (and generally STEM) teachers, they are willing to pay (fees and living bursary) for a Subject Knowledge Enhancement Course and Teacher's training. Or alternatively I could study with the Open University and get an actual degree in Mathematics.

Sometimes I think about studying IT with Open to start working in the field. But then reading this forum I find out that most IT jobs are like plumbing and you can just learn the know how on your own.

Ah, and I figured also that it would be good to work at least for a while as either a teacher, or a nurse (or maybe even a support worker) for the NHS because of the DB pension. It grows incrementally year after year based on the salary from a given year and would be a nice bonus for the older me! Could start getting it at 55. I calculated once what if scenarios for working as either a teacher or for the NHS for £25000/year and contributing to the DB pension. Then once deciding to start getting the pension at 55 you would get (figures per year, sorry the x's are just to keep the table in shape):

Teacher vs Nurse Defined benefit pension
Assumptions salary: 25000 per annum
retiring at 55 assuming no lump sum salary increase of 2%

Pension per annum Equivalent capital 3% SWR
Years of paying in Nurse Teacher Nurse Teacher
2 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx£517 £1018 £17,233.33 £33,933.33
3 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx£782 £1284 £26,066.67 £42,800.00
4 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx£1050 £1556 £35,000.00 £51,866.67
5 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx£1322 £1831 £44,066.67 £61,033.33
6 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx£1599 £2111 £53,300.00 £70,366.67
7 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx£1879 £2396 £62,633.33 £79,866.67
8 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx£2164 £2685 £72,133.33 £89,500.00
9 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx£2452 £2978 £81,733.33 £99,266.67
10 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx£2745 £3276 £91,500.00 £109,200.00

I think even if the jobs is not for you, particularly the first two to four years see quite an increase!

And it feels a little bit warm inside that it would be something stable and secured by the state and not a subject to fluctuations like the majority of my investments, haha.

[ertyu]

it feels a little bit warm inside that it would be something stable and secured by the state and not a subject to fluctuations like the majority of my investments, haha.

The cake is a lie

These can be restructured, deliberately eroded by inflation, underfunded, etc. E.g. I have read that the retirement age will become 72 yrs in the UK starting the year 2034 (guardian). All 'murican teachers are laughing at you in "underfunded state pensions" and the pensioneers of the entire eastern bloc who spent a lifetime contributing to the state in "hyperinflation" and "failure to index at pace with CPE"

[Bankai]

I'd not trust everything written in Guardian, they are heavily biased to the left and scaremongering a lot about how Torry government will ruin everything. No doubt there'll be changes to UK state pension, but not very dramatic - it's already one of the smallest pensions in developed countries. As for working to 72 - I don't see this happening as most people just don't have body/mind at 72 to add sufficient value to justify even minimum wage. What exactly could they do in era of automation and computers?

[tonyedgecombe]

There are some right wing think tanks agitating for a much increased pension age. I seem to remember Iain Duncan-Smith being associated with one. I doubt it can happen though, people of that age tend to vote and wouldn't like it. Also I think the UK government is in quite a good position in terms of funding pensions, mainly because the commitments are fairly low. DB pensions in the private sector are another matter of course.

[tonyedgecombe]

@guitarplayer I did a Maths degree with the Open University, my experience with it was good, there was only one module I was dissatisfied with. However I'm not sure the computing courses are up to the same standard, they don't seem well aligned with most modern computer science curriculums. I wouldn't look to them for an entry into a programming job.

[guitarplayer]

@ertyu thanks for this. No doubt lots can change with regards to DB pensions and indeed the state pension. Another way to look at it would be to consider them a diversification of assets past 55/67 yo (or whatever the Gov will increase the state pension age to). I guess as a nurse/teacher, I would anyway be saving 50%+ of income so there would be plenty to allocate somewhere else. And these jobs will remain in high demand, internationally (nurses more than teachers I think).

The EU Eastern Block (if this is what you were referring to) also suffers from a brain drain and a society getting older quickly, as every young person can move to the EU Western Block for whatever reason they want. Turns out that many do, and have children in places like the UK (=future tax payers). And it is certainly true that older voters = more active voters (see e.g. Brexit). This will pull against changes making immediate life more difficult for the aged ones.

But yes, there is a change DB pensions and the state pension will be worth little.

@Bankai, I guess the assumption would be that if a person stops working before the state pension age for whatever reason, they would be using their private pensions pot before reaching the state pension age.

It would be great if the UK government introduced a possibility of getting the state pension before the official state pension age, factoring for it (i.e. the pension would be adequately lower). But it will probably not because this would mean a spike in expenses for some years.

@tonyedgecombe, Yes agree with the bit about many older people being voters. I understand that your thinking is DB pensions in private sector are more susceptible to changes? I would think so, too.

Many thanks for the info about Maths and Computing degrees with the Open University! Studying Computing would be more instrumental, I don't have a strong inherent interest. Studying Maths would be fun I think! Never had to put any effort into Maths and mostly found it very entertaining. Particularly I was looking at Mathematics and Statistics (did some stats in the past, like it) or Mathematics and its learning (with the prospect of being a teacher once).

What module was dissatisfying?

[tonyedgecombe]

What module was dissatisfying?

MS325 Computer algebra, chaos and simulations. I think it was the first year it was run and my tutor was somewhat absent.