Hello, everyone- I am bluecollarmusician.
How it took me this long to create an account here, I will never know.
I found the ERE site through a random google search in the last quarter of 2012, and immediately recognized Jacob's name from an article on yahoo finance a couple of years prior (maybe winter 2010?) The article made an impression- not because of the early retirement, but because of all the fuss over him living on 7k a year. The comments on the article left me feeling detached from reality. No one seemed to believe it was possible to live on so little, while was actually a little let down when I realized that the 7k was only his half of the living expenses. Of course, he was doing it in a HCOLA, but I couldn't understand how seemingly NO ONE on the internet believed that it was possible and that this MUST be made when he was doing nothing that sounded to crazy to me.
I dug no deeper at the time, but was thrilled to find his website at random a couple of years later- and I really loved the site! There is a warm glow that comes with finding people who say things that make sense to you, and who also present new ideas you hadn't considered. There is magic in that discovery. When I started out in music, I never had any thoughts of conventional retirement- it wasn't on my radar. I had followed the adage about doing something you love (and never working a day in your life.). I did have some fuzzy notion that "some day" I would have enough investments to not have to worry about money- but seeing the systems way of thinking really helped galvanize what I knew intuitively from my humble upbringing on the farm.
At that time, I had no history of being involved in online forums- frankly, outside of google searches and email I didn't use the web all that much. I loved the blog, but quickly figured out that it was not active, and found myself over on MMM. At first I was a little cold over there- different tone, different vibe, but eventually I chuckled at a few things and felt more or less at home. After some time passed (and I spent a little more time online) I found my way into the forums over there, and even started a journal over there- posting occasionally- but pretty infrequently these days. The culture over there has changed over time- which is of course fine, but I just don't relate as well as I did.
Somehow (I blame you @2birds!) I came back over here, and this time ventured into the forums. What can I say, other than I have been knocked out by the thoughtful, insightful posting here... and I just felt at home. Not sure that I will be a frequent poster- but I just realized it was time to be a part of this community.
@jacob- I am one of your legion of fans! Thank you very much for the time, effort, and energy you have put into your site and your book- I am just another *one* who was inspired by your thoughtful, methodical, and scientific approach to this part of life, and the way it interacts with all our well being. Mostly I joined to say thanks, and (maybe) chime in from time to time if I have something to offer.
My People...
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horsewoman
- Posts: 659
- Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:11 am
Re: My People...
Welcome to the forum! Fellow musician here :)
Very few of my wide acquaintance of musicians have a "renaissance man" mindset. Most of them, with exceptions, are great at music but bad at business. To be a really good musician (which I'm not) you have to put most of your time and effort in, leaving very little time and energy for other pursuits. This kind of thinking is however vital - in my opinion at least - for living a low-expenses ERE lifestyle like Jacob, while making a modest income. I know a few people who make their living as musicians and I would not like to trade places with them. They do make a living, but I'd be amazed if anyone of them has money to spare for investments. No one besides Rhianna and Beyoncé gets rich with music these days, I suppose. Like myself, most gigging musicians I know have a spouse who makes money "the regular way" or a part-time job to keep things afloat.
@bluecollarmusician - you did not write whether you are making all of your money with music. If you are comfortable with sharing, I'd like to learn more!
Something from nothing? I don't know about that. It took me lots of gigs just to earn back the amount of money my instrument initially cost. Say nothing of lessons, singing lessons and time for practising...HalfCent wrote: ↑Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:52 amI know the contrast between this forum and the other one! IMHO musicians, once they discard the societal "starving artist" and "don't be a sellout" and "why aren't you a superstar yet?" programming, have the potential to be the greatest financial achievers, simply because they create something from nothing (vibrations!) and make people feel their feelings/dance/party/make love for a living!
Very few of my wide acquaintance of musicians have a "renaissance man" mindset. Most of them, with exceptions, are great at music but bad at business. To be a really good musician (which I'm not) you have to put most of your time and effort in, leaving very little time and energy for other pursuits. This kind of thinking is however vital - in my opinion at least - for living a low-expenses ERE lifestyle like Jacob, while making a modest income. I know a few people who make their living as musicians and I would not like to trade places with them. They do make a living, but I'd be amazed if anyone of them has money to spare for investments. No one besides Rhianna and Beyoncé gets rich with music these days, I suppose. Like myself, most gigging musicians I know have a spouse who makes money "the regular way" or a part-time job to keep things afloat.
@bluecollarmusician - you did not write whether you are making all of your money with music. If you are comfortable with sharing, I'd like to learn more!
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horsewoman
- Posts: 659
- Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:11 am
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bluecollarmusician
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:02 pm
Re: My People...
@horsewoman - music has always been my main "vocation..."
I have made it my job, and for the last 20 odd years have derived my living income from cruise ships, theme parks, touring bands, shows, military bands, orchestras, wedding bands, studio work... you name it... if you have ever seen a kind of gig that had a trumpet player in it- I've probably done that kind of a job.
I knew early on that I was not likely to have any kind of pension plan and did not expect a large salary, so I took it upon myself to educate myself on finance (it's an ongoing process) in my early 20's and began investing in stocks and RE. It's been a long and winding road. I am a saver by nature- (maybe a natural conservationist?) The end result is that we are FI by most reasonable standards- SWR on current NW would be 2-3% depending on the day... but since I continue to play gigs money is basically a non-issue, just a way to keep track. When I determined that I wanted to be a musician, I don't think I ever considered that I might not want to do it at some point. (Although, I do now sometimes consider stepping back from the grind- it's the paradox of being a working musician, you either have all the gigs or none of the gigs.) As it stands, we are able to fund our lifestyle purely from my gig income at the moment. Most musicians also teach to fill the gap, but that's not really my bag, although I do it from time to time- mostly out of a sense of obligation to those who helped me along the way. That is to say- I don't hate teaching, but I don't teach for income. I teach to help those who are ready and serious to learn.
There is considerably more to my financial story, but we have been very fortunate with our investments and I have been grateful to get to do something that I would (mostly) do for free- and still get paid for it. I've been married for 12 years (together for 18!) and while our expenses have fluctuated a lot our biggest advantage in finance and lifestyle is that we are both pretty contrarian. I like to learn and I have eclectic interests. I have found you can make money at almost anything if you become knowledgeable. This has been especially true in investing and in RE.
@halfcent I absolutely agree you cannot accept any common (mis)conceptions about being a musician or what the music business is. Deal with the world as it is. While I still have some goals I am working on, I am content with my niche. If I was money motivated (or if money was my goal) I know several ways where I could reliably make a lot of it (but not in music.) Not really interested. I don't hate money, but it's only one kind of currency, and it is not accepted at some of the locations I frequent.
I also have thought about a Wheaton music scale- Perhaps the wheatonian mode?
maybe I will put together one eventually.
I have made it my job, and for the last 20 odd years have derived my living income from cruise ships, theme parks, touring bands, shows, military bands, orchestras, wedding bands, studio work... you name it... if you have ever seen a kind of gig that had a trumpet player in it- I've probably done that kind of a job.
I knew early on that I was not likely to have any kind of pension plan and did not expect a large salary, so I took it upon myself to educate myself on finance (it's an ongoing process) in my early 20's and began investing in stocks and RE. It's been a long and winding road. I am a saver by nature- (maybe a natural conservationist?) The end result is that we are FI by most reasonable standards- SWR on current NW would be 2-3% depending on the day... but since I continue to play gigs money is basically a non-issue, just a way to keep track. When I determined that I wanted to be a musician, I don't think I ever considered that I might not want to do it at some point. (Although, I do now sometimes consider stepping back from the grind- it's the paradox of being a working musician, you either have all the gigs or none of the gigs.) As it stands, we are able to fund our lifestyle purely from my gig income at the moment. Most musicians also teach to fill the gap, but that's not really my bag, although I do it from time to time- mostly out of a sense of obligation to those who helped me along the way. That is to say- I don't hate teaching, but I don't teach for income. I teach to help those who are ready and serious to learn.
There is considerably more to my financial story, but we have been very fortunate with our investments and I have been grateful to get to do something that I would (mostly) do for free- and still get paid for it. I've been married for 12 years (together for 18!) and while our expenses have fluctuated a lot our biggest advantage in finance and lifestyle is that we are both pretty contrarian. I like to learn and I have eclectic interests. I have found you can make money at almost anything if you become knowledgeable. This has been especially true in investing and in RE.
@halfcent I absolutely agree you cannot accept any common (mis)conceptions about being a musician or what the music business is. Deal with the world as it is. While I still have some goals I am working on, I am content with my niche. If I was money motivated (or if money was my goal) I know several ways where I could reliably make a lot of it (but not in music.) Not really interested. I don't hate money, but it's only one kind of currency, and it is not accepted at some of the locations I frequent.
I also have thought about a Wheaton music scale- Perhaps the wheatonian mode?
maybe I will put together one eventually.
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bluecollarmusician
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:02 pm
Re: My People...
I guess you could say in my favorite venues, you can pay to watch- but there is no such thing as pay to play. And I came to play
