What I would do if I was 18 again (advice for younger people)

[James_0011]

I copied this article from a man named "Josh Kaufman", it basically outlines how to get a college degree for the fraction of the price and in 1 years time. I think the degree available through this method are computer science, business, accounting, and psychology. I really wish I would have seen something like this when I was 18, it would have saved a ton of money and time.

Basically, the idea is you can take CLEP tests to transfer to an online college that is accredited and not have to take a single class in person.

I doubt most hiring managers would discriminate against this approach, as they simply would have no idea how you got your degree, but rather that you have one. Moreover, you would look like a prodigy to most employers with a BA/BS at age 19.

If anyone sees any problems with this approach feel free to comment.

"The College-Level Examination Program (CLEP) is a series of examinations created by the College Board , the same organization that administers the SAT college entrance examinations. There are 34 different CLEP examinations offered, each of which is the equivalent of 3 to 12 college credits. Most accredited universities fully recognize passing scores on CLEP tests as full credit in their program. To graduate with an undergraduate degree, you’ll need to accumulate a minimum of 120 credits.

Official CLEP examination study guides are available for about $20, which includes the material you need to know and sample tests to judge your proficiency before you take the real test. To save money, you can borrow these texts from most public libraries. Each exam is approximately 90 minutes long, and costs $72 dollars to take. If you pass, you get full credit for the equivalent college requirements. If you don’t pass, you can take the exam again - there’s no limit on how many times you can take any given test.

CLEP itself does not offer degrees - once you get to 120 credits, you’ll have to transfer them to an accredited college or university to be awarded a degree. Excelsior College is an accredited institution that does not have a residency requirement, which means that 100% of your credits can be taken via CLEP examination. In order to graduate, you’ll have to pay ~$1,500 to become an Excelsior student and have your credits transferred. Once the transfer is complete, you’ll be awarded an accredited undergraduate degree.

Evaluating the CLEP Approach

The total cost of pursing an undergraduate degree in this fashion is~$4,000. The cost of examinations is approximately $2,500 for 120 credits, plus the $1,500 for transfer to Excelsior. Even if you plan to purchase the CLEP exam books and add some padding if you need to re-take a test, you should spend no more than $5,000 total.

It’s possible to complete this process in less than a year. Assuming you studied full-time, it’s possible to study for and pass a CLEP examination once every two weeks. If you focus on tests that award higher amounts of credit (6/12 vs. 3), you can accumulate 120 credits in less than a year.

Bureaucracy and barriers to entry are extremely low. You don’t have to worry about an admissions process, student affairs offices, course offering schedules, or other bureaucratic issues. All you need to do to get started is to pick up a CLEP prep book at the library, start studying, and schedule the test.

Getting your degree in this way will almost certainly impress most hiring managers. Completing your undergraduate studies in less than a year for $4,000 is a very real achievement that proves your intelligence, ingenuity, drive, and persistence. I don’t know about you, but I would much rather hire a person who got their degree this way than someone who spent a lot of money and time attending a traditional college program, assuming both candidates had the skills to do the job. Graduating in this way also gives you more time to develop economically valuable skills outside of college, giving you a huge edge.

If you’re considering getting an undergraduate degree, it appears that the CLEP option is well worth considering. If you already have an undergraduate degree, this is an excellent case study in the value of doing things differently: there’s always better way, and it pays to find it."

[jacob]

That rings a bell. A few years ago someone became famous for figuring out a way to pass degree/certificates by figuring out how study only for the tests. He posted some of his test answers in physics. I wasn't overly impressed

Insofar that the job requires actual knowledge associated with the degree, I think this approach can come back to bite one with a vengeance. A degree is not really the piece of paper that was awarded at the end for taking a test. The most important aspect of an education is the framework that shapes the knowledge one learns. This doesn't come about from memorizing the Cliffs Notes. (This is why people who self-study or lack the experience/width to home-school properly often end with with a rather idiosyncratic knowledge base.) The most important lesson learned is getting a very good idea of what one doesn't know---but where it could potentially be found. The second most important factor is the experience gained from doing various exercises.

I would certainly prefer to hire the person who did the test-only method in one year if they actually had the same skill as someone who "did the time", but on the other hand, I would seriously doubt that they did indeed have the same skill and most likely I would give the "hacker" a pass.

[Tyler9000]

The fact that this is possible at all simply demonstrates how devalued college education has become these days. Honestly, I'd prefer a smart candidate with demonstrable skills applicable to the job who bypassed college altogether to one who took a shortcut through a weak system and thinks that makes him qualified.

[Dragline]

Getting your degree in this way will almost certainly impress most hiring managers. Completing your undergraduate studies in less than a year for $4,000 is a very real achievement that proves your intelligence, ingenuity, drive, and persistence. I don’t know about you, but I would much rather hire a person who got their degree this way than someone who spent a lot of money and time attending a traditional college program, assuming both candidates had the skills to do the job. Graduating in this way also gives you more time to develop economically valuable skills outside of college, giving you a huge edge.

I think you are probably incorrect to think that you would impress most hiring managers with this course of action, at least the ones who work for large companies and essentially "hire in bulk". No person in that position would want to take a chance or go through detailed process of vetting an unconventionally degreed applicant. It is much easier and safer for them to follow an established protocol that usually has them looking to specific feeder schools or programs where they have found good employees in the past. They would see your resume and take a pass.

You might have better luck with a small operation or start-up, but expect to be paid less in the short term. They will also prefer to hire from "where the big boys hire." Thus, I would only consider doing this if I planned to start small or in an occupation like sales where the degree is pretty irrelevant anyway.

That being said, you are much better off financially doing this than going into debt and getting a unmarketable degree at an expensive school. But that's only because of the money and time you saved -- not because this would give you a leg up over a traditional applicant for the same position. The hiring world does not reward educational ingenuity.

[ether]

I'm not sure why everyone is bashing this method, it's pretty similar to what I did.

I started studying for AP exams (It's the same thing as CLEP except free & only for high school students) when I was 16.
My school was average, so half the time there wasn't an actual class for the subject, but some subjects were easy enough to self study.
Finished high school with 60 credit hours and went to a state university and enrolled in a generic interdisciplinary degree. Got a part-time job with the university to get job experience while I finished out my last two years. I'm 20 and just applied to graduate in a month.

No one ever questioned my academic background. Never a question about my GPA and only one quick question on what my major is. Then it's always what is your job experience.

[bryan]

Insofar that the job requires actual knowledge associated with the degree, I think this approach can come back to bite one with a vengeance.

To be fair, many jobs requiring (err, I mean requirement to be hired...) some specific degrees do not actually require the full set of knowledge associated with the degree. I am especially referring to tech jobs that require CS/EE/ECE (or similar) degrees. My first software engineering job was at a legit big engineering corp, yet I would have been fine if I had skipped most of my degree and only focused on a few courses, skills.

(Perhaps this just speaks to the current demand/supply condition of some jobs in the USA.)

So if the goal is to maximize job salary and minimize schooling costs.. OP seems to be a correct extension of the advice to take AP classes in high school or go to junior college to get credit for less-important or 101, 102 courses. Just be sure you know exactly which course of study is important and that you have the proper fundamentals (e.g. mathematics) in place.

I would put high school as generally more important than university.. where you are supposed to be getting the widest base of basic human knowledge. This is pretty great complimented with a long reading list. University these days seems more like job-preparedness (perhaps what @Tyler9000 is criticizing).

Which brings me to common wisdom I've heard repeated, that "university is what you make of it". There is still some good in it but you have to be more pro-active than back when there were fewer university graduates [pdf].

I remember promising myself after my third year of university (the hardest) that I would never go back to get a masters or doctorate (at least not in the same, serious field) because this shit is tough. Contrariwise, so far high-paying jobs that I am qualified for are relative cake-walks to a semester or two at university. Perhaps I was mistaken on this point considering you can study a more narrow subject for your PhD (and avoid that (subjective) hard shit).

All of this does smell like "salaryman/gamesman" thinking.

Hopefully my own observations and preferences aren't speaking to a general race to the bottom.. I at least tell myself that I do have some good ideas or skills that can push society forward, if I can will it. More akin to the "craftsman". I am a bit anxious that life has been mostly a cake-walk and my intellect hasn't been challenged like it was back in university.

[James_0011]

I'm not sure why everyone is bashing this method, it's pretty similar to what I did.

I started studying for AP exams (It's the same thing as CLEP except free & only for high school students) when I was 16.
My school was average, so half the time there wasn't an actual class for the subject, but some subjects were easy enough to self study.
Finished high school with 60 credit hours and went to a state university and enrolled in a generic interdisciplinary degree. Got a part-time job with the university to get job experience while I finished out my last two years. I'm 20 and just applied to graduate in a month.

No one ever questioned my academic background. Never a question about my GPA and only one quick question on what my major is. Then it's always what is your job experience.

Congrats, your lucky to have found out about early retirement so young. I agree that no one has ever asked me about anything academic in my job search so far. It seems like they only care that you have a degree, and then its all about your work/internship experience. Although most of the jobs I am looking at don't require a specific skill set, only that one has analytical ability (aka a stem degree) and/or the ability to learn.

[James_0011]

Alternatively, there is an accredited four year university online called "the university of the people". It's partnered with UC Berkeley I think, and the cost is 100% free.

[Dragline]

I'm not sure why everyone is bashing this method, it's pretty similar to what I did.

I started studying for AP exams (It's the same thing as CLEP except free & only for high school students) when I was 16.
My school was average, so half the time there wasn't an actual class for the subject, but some subjects were easy enough to self study.
Finished high school with 60 credit hours and went to a state university and enrolled in a generic interdisciplinary degree. Got a part-time job with the university to get job experience while I finished out my last two years. I'm 20 and just applied to graduate in a month.

No one ever questioned my academic background. Never a question about my GPA and only one quick question on what my major is. Then it's always what is your job experience.

You didn't catch the difference. The proposal was to use CLEP and get an online degree, not a state university. Those are two very different profiles from an employer's perspective.

[oldbeyond]

That rings a bell. A few years ago someone became famous for figuring out a way to pass degree/certificates by figuring out how study only for the tests. He posted some of his test answers in physics. I wasn't overly impressed

Insofar that the job requires actual knowledge associated with the degree, I think this approach can come back to bite one with a vengeance. A degree is not really the piece of paper that was awarded at the end for taking a test. The most important aspect of an education is the framework that shapes the knowledge one learns. This doesn't come about from memorizing the Cliffs Notes. (This is why people who self-study or lack the experience/width to home-school properly often end with with a rather idiosyncratic knowledge base.) The most important lesson learned is getting a very good idea of what one doesn't know---but where it could potentially be found. The second most important factor is the experience gained from doing various exercises.

I would certainly prefer to hire the person who did the test-only method in one year if they actually had the same skill as someone who "did the time", but on the other hand, I would seriously doubt that they did indeed have the same skill and most likely I would give the "hacker" a pass.

Perhaps you're referring to scotthyoung and his MIT challenge? https://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/myproj ... allenge-2/ Obviously his rushed pace was set with page views and ebook sales in mind, not deep learning.

This strategy is basically a way to beat a system that is perceived to be rigged, we're you need to jump through useless hoops to get $DEGREE, and you need $DEGREE to get $CUBICLEJOB. Unfortunately, that's a pretty fair decription of a sizeable part of the labour market, in my experience. But I'd also say that there are subjects we're you actually get to learn, both for work and for life(remember the web of goals?), and where you're not simply paying a diploma mill milking their accreditation privileges, neofeudal style.

But I'll save three years of my life! We'll, are you sure you can do it in one year? Seems like a stretch to me, but then I was never the diligent one. Still, doing it in one or two years will have you working sooner and in less debt/with more savings left. What you'll give up is some amount of knowledge, and some thinking prowess. How much will likely vary quite a bit from person to person, but I'd say it'd be significant.

[James_0011]

Perhaps you're referring to scotthyoung and his MIT challenge? https://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/myproj ... allenge-2/ Obviously his rushed pace was set with page views and ebook sales in mind, not deep learning.

This strategy is basically a way to beat a system that is perceived to be rigged, we're you need to jump through useless hoops to get $DEGREE, and you need $DEGREE to get $CUBICLEJOB. Unfortunately, that's a pretty fair decription of a sizeable part of the labour market, in my experience. But I'd also say that there are subjects we're you actually get to learn, both for work and for life(remember the web of goals?), and where you're not simply paying a diploma mill milking their accreditation privileges, neofeudal style.

But I'll save three years of my life! We'll, are you sure you can do it in one year? Seems like a stretch to me, but then I was never the diligent one. Still, doing it in one or two years will have you working sooner and in less debt/with more savings left. What you'll give up is some amount of knowledge, and some thinking prowess. How much will likely vary quite a bit from person to person, but I'd say it'd be significant.

I'm studying math at university and 90% of the work is memorizing theorems and spitting them back out on quizzes and tests. Not much actual learning going on. Seems like a huge waste of time to me if someone actually is interested in learning.

I understand what you're saying about the journey being important. I posted this in the context of sometime whose primary goal is to reach FI as soon as possible. If you have a different primary goal, this path would not be the best to take.

[Riggerjack]

You are bound to have gaps in your knowledge base with this method. But, then you have to ask yourself how much having to Google a Gordian knot is going to impact your life.

I wouldn't recommend it for engineering or law, but if you are just going to claw your way into middle management, this is fine. Most corporate HR is interested in making sure all the boxes are checked. BA, check. 2 years related work experience, check. Forward to the hiring manager and update the demographics file.

As a life hack to EER, I could see it as very effective. You can always go to college in retirement.

[Fish]

Related thread: Create the PERFECT ERE Life...

Pretend you are 18 years old and you know everything that we talk about here that pertains to ERE. What would you do?