Are there any oldsters here?
I'm "on the wrong side of fifty" and it seems to me that most the people on this list are younger - much younger than that. I'll say forthrightly that I don't think they will be able to retire any time soon, let alone retire "early".
Aside from my wondering whether they have a realistic idea of what retirement is, I often have a hard time with the way in which they express themselves, and the extent of their life experience.
BTW, I notice that the description of the list is "for those on the fast track to financial independence". I must point out that "early retirement" and "financial independence" can coincide but they are not the same thing.
Are you over 50?
You didn't offer a definition of "realistic retirement", but I doubt there are many people on this forum that will agree with your definitions of what constitutes "retirement" (early or otherwise) or "financial independence". Jacob has written on this: http://earlyretirementextreme.com/the-d ... ement.html
I suspect your problem (with how the youngsters express themselves on this board) is not due to a difference in age, but more due to a rift in mindset.
[Edited for clarity]
I suspect your problem (with how the youngsters express themselves on this board) is not due to a difference in age, but more due to a rift in mindset.
[Edited for clarity]
Uh, ok.. Well I'm retiring later this year. Will my retirement be the ridiculous carrot paraded in "Money" magazine? Probably not... but works for me!
re·tire·ment (r-trmnt), n.
1. The act of retiring.
2. The state of being retired.
3. Withdrawal from one's occupation, business, or office.
4. Withdrawal into privacy or seclusion.
5. A place of privacy or seclusion; a retreat. See Synonyms at solitude.
My retirement meets all those qualifications. Therefore, I will be retired.
I'm trying to understand the motivation for this post. Do you regret the choices you made? Are you envious that some people here, some as young as 15(!), reached our common conclusion so early?
re·tire·ment (r-trmnt), n.
1. The act of retiring.
2. The state of being retired.
3. Withdrawal from one's occupation, business, or office.
4. Withdrawal into privacy or seclusion.
5. A place of privacy or seclusion; a retreat. See Synonyms at solitude.
My retirement meets all those qualifications. Therefore, I will be retired.
I'm trying to understand the motivation for this post. Do you regret the choices you made? Are you envious that some people here, some as young as 15(!), reached our common conclusion so early?
I am over 50 (53 now, and very soon, God willing if I live, I will be 54). I mostly read rather than post here, but I keep reading in part because I find the people here to be much more intelligent, competent and motivated (in a different drum sort of way) than their respective ages would ordinarily suggest; and even more than most (other) oldsters busy looking for traditional retirement. As for a lack of life experience, well, why rush it? It will come soon enough. And I can’t assume that life experience always helps, especially where changes in the world occur at an accelerated rate. When I was young, I accepted a fair number of things that I couldn’t quite make sense of because the people saying them were older and much more experienced, i.e., I suspected they knew something that I didn’t. Now that I am at the age and experience level they were at the time, I sometimes find that they didn’t know much of anything; they were just wrong, even irrational.
Yes, some ideas about retirement and/or financial independence voiced here are immature; probably won’t happen and won’t go well if they do, or at least not as planned (as if my ideas have gone or will go well or according to plan). But the independence here tells me that these are people who can think, plan, adapt, adjust course, and keep going. About the best one can expect and often more valuable than merely adding more money to a portfolio.
So, I like reading comments from younger people here, but also very much from people on the wrong side of 50
Yes, some ideas about retirement and/or financial independence voiced here are immature; probably won’t happen and won’t go well if they do, or at least not as planned (as if my ideas have gone or will go well or according to plan). But the independence here tells me that these are people who can think, plan, adapt, adjust course, and keep going. About the best one can expect and often more valuable than merely adding more money to a portfolio.
So, I like reading comments from younger people here, but also very much from people on the wrong side of 50
@rufousdog Why do you think most of the people on the forum won't be able to retire extremely early? The math is pretty straightforward as to how this would be possible. Are you concerned most posters won't be able to decrease their expenses low enough? Will we give up due to peer pressure? Get sidetracked by expensive things like kids, houses, cars, etc? I'm curious what your concern is since it seems extremely early retirement is attainable for those willing to embrace a certain lifestyle. If this lifestyle doesn't appeal to you, there's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean this isn't a valid way for others to live and attain their goals though.
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George the original one
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@B: I read Jacob's article and found it helpful to this discussion. However, after acknowledging the strict definitions of retirement and financial independence he concludes by blurring them together. That negates the value of providing definition.
I grew up in a different generation and yes there is a great difference in mindset or how I was taught to think. To me, words have specific meaning according to standard (dictionary) definition; we now live in times where words are casually redefined, for various purposes. That leads to obfuscation, not clarity in communication.
@JohnnyH: The motivation of the post is that I doubt that most younger people have any idea of what actual retirement is like; thus it seems desirable, if ill-defined. Maybe the real issue is an underlying desire of "gee, I wish I didn't have to work."
No, I certainly do not regret the choices that I made. FYI I have been financially independent since age 30 (that should dispel any presumption of enviousness). Also, regarding my unusual mindset, that itself may have had something to do with having achieved financial security in life as early as I did. I have always been self-employed and in the past few years my business has declined to point where I am virtually retired in terms of work done and money earned.
To me the goal of financial independence is a worthwhile one, possible at any age of adulthood. But that is one aspect, and I think it is what this list is primarily concerned with, as opposed to what the list is actually named. Retirement (defined as no longer having an occupation) is a horse of a different color.
I grew up in a different generation and yes there is a great difference in mindset or how I was taught to think. To me, words have specific meaning according to standard (dictionary) definition; we now live in times where words are casually redefined, for various purposes. That leads to obfuscation, not clarity in communication.
@JohnnyH: The motivation of the post is that I doubt that most younger people have any idea of what actual retirement is like; thus it seems desirable, if ill-defined. Maybe the real issue is an underlying desire of "gee, I wish I didn't have to work."
No, I certainly do not regret the choices that I made. FYI I have been financially independent since age 30 (that should dispel any presumption of enviousness). Also, regarding my unusual mindset, that itself may have had something to do with having achieved financial security in life as early as I did. I have always been self-employed and in the past few years my business has declined to point where I am virtually retired in terms of work done and money earned.
To me the goal of financial independence is a worthwhile one, possible at any age of adulthood. But that is one aspect, and I think it is what this list is primarily concerned with, as opposed to what the list is actually named. Retirement (defined as no longer having an occupation) is a horse of a different color.
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AlexOliver
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"I'll say forthrightly that I don't think they will be able to retire any time soon, let alone retire "early"."
"Early" is anything from 25 to 55. Personally, I don't have an age where I think I'll retire (I'm guessing late twenties though?) but *of course* I'll be able to retire before age 55.
You seem to have misunderstandings as to what this forum/idea is. I would suggest reading the early blog posts of earlyretirementextreme.com to get a handle on where we (all of us, not just the young ones) are coming from.
"Early" is anything from 25 to 55. Personally, I don't have an age where I think I'll retire (I'm guessing late twenties though?) but *of course* I'll be able to retire before age 55.
You seem to have misunderstandings as to what this forum/idea is. I would suggest reading the early blog posts of earlyretirementextreme.com to get a handle on where we (all of us, not just the young ones) are coming from.
rufousdog: Yes, thank you. I understand now... I do not have any idea what it will be like to not have to do anything, should I not want to.
I'll probably spend about 6 months getting intoxicated, reading and playing video games! ;0
I've never been a person short of interests, which seems to be common here... I've always relished my free time. I'm never bored, even when I have nothing but my thoughts.
I'll probably spend about 6 months getting intoxicated, reading and playing video games! ;0
I've never been a person short of interests, which seems to be common here... I've always relished my free time. I'm never bored, even when I have nothing but my thoughts.
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AlexOliver
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:25 pm
You're right, it seems we were writing our posts at the same time.
"The motivation of the post is that I doubt that most younger people have any idea of what actual retirement is like; thus it seems desirable, if ill-defined. Maybe the real issue is an underlying desire of "gee, I wish I didn't have to work.""
Could you expand on this? What do you think retirement is actually like? Why do you think retirement is undesirable, or will be to the younger generation?
I should state first that I don't think retirement is never doing anything for money again. I'm not ruling that out for the future, I just want the option not to.
"The motivation of the post is that I doubt that most younger people have any idea of what actual retirement is like; thus it seems desirable, if ill-defined. Maybe the real issue is an underlying desire of "gee, I wish I didn't have to work.""
Could you expand on this? What do you think retirement is actually like? Why do you think retirement is undesirable, or will be to the younger generation?
I should state first that I don't think retirement is never doing anything for money again. I'm not ruling that out for the future, I just want the option not to.
@ KevinM: I detect a hint of sarcasm in your request. Retirement is a cessation (or vast reduction) of practicing your trade, or profession or occupation.
It's a free world and you are free to have little or no desire to work. You are free to choose, and I will not denounce anyone for it. But if that's what the underlying motive is, let's admit it and call it that.
It's a free world and you are free to have little or no desire to work. You are free to choose, and I will not denounce anyone for it. But if that's what the underlying motive is, let's admit it and call it that.
I'm not even halfway to 50 and my plans for early retirement are basically to have a graceful and controlled exit from my career to enter a state of idleness. This idleness will not be doing *nothing,* but instead pursuing things that interest me without respect to compensation. Put another way, the corporate life I am currently involved in has a hard time keeping me busy and interested, so I want to find a way to keep myself busy without having to mind a career at the same time. I have already spent too much of my life jumping through other peoples' hoops and I'd like to jump through a few of my own. Most of the goals I will set for myself are not particularly compatible with the careerist corporate values that I have spent most of my life around, so I'm going to retire...
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Robert Muir
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rufousdog, I'm over 50 (barely) and I don't understand your statements. The definition of retirement (that Jacob has addressed several times) on this blog is the ability to do anything you want within reason without having to find a job.
That would include hobbies, charities, occasional tasks that might bring in a few bucks, etc.
The extreme part of it is what brings in the under 40 crowd. To reduce expenses while at the same time build a capital base to pay for those expenses is what it's all about.
I certainly think it's doable, especially for those younger folks who haven't settled into their cushy ways like us older guys/gals have.
That would include hobbies, charities, occasional tasks that might bring in a few bucks, etc.
The extreme part of it is what brings in the under 40 crowd. To reduce expenses while at the same time build a capital base to pay for those expenses is what it's all about.
I certainly think it's doable, especially for those younger folks who haven't settled into their cushy ways like us older guys/gals have.