Stuff --- A cluttered life

[FBeyer]

brute likes the general gist of that "Magic of Tidying up" book, even if it seems to be written for soccer moms. the gist being "why would brute own something he doesn't love owning". this is what brute has unconsciously doing for years, hence minimalism. there's only so much love to go around.

I've come to terms with the 'talking-with-my-socks' thing Kondo's got going.
I now realize, after reading up on Stoicism, that what she is practising a form of gratitude and negative visualization. The mysticism is nothing more than weaning yourself from hedonic adaptation. I now 'talk' to my favorite matte black coffee cup every morning...

The life-changing magic of tidying up does clash a bit with ERE in my opinion. There are things in my home that I believe take up space and irritate me on a daily basis, even though I know I might need them for one day where I need to save money not getting thing-X again(*).

I'm moving more towards William Morris's take on this:

If you want a golden rule that will fit everybody, this is it: Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful.

Also

Simplicity of life, even the barest, is not a misery, but the very foundation of refinement: a sanded floor and whitewashed walls, and the green trees, and flowery meads, and living waters outside; or a grimy palace amid the smoke with a regiment of housemaids always working to smear the dirt together so that it may be unnoticed; which, think you, is the most refined, the most fit for a gentleman of those two dwellings?

The useful stuff is mostly hidden away. I freakin' despise cleaning.

(*) The solution is to find someone I can borrow this from in the future.

[7Wannabe5]

The William Morris rule is also pretty good for choosing a SO. Of course, if you intend to be monogamous, you should probably substitute "and" for "or."

Of course, I also like Cicero's "If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need." But, if you give a mouse a garden, then she will also likely need some loppers, and then once she starts to lopping, she may also want a barrow, and once she has a barrow, she may need a shed in which to store it, and wouldn't both a hedge of American Plum and a hedge of Blueberry and a mixed patch of cabbage, bush beans and nasturtiums be beautiful and useful?...etc, etc, etc, (sigh, decisions, decisions..) I can also confirm through personal experience, the general rule of thumb that states that 5000 volumes is the maximum number of beautiful and useful books that can be stored in a moderately sized domicile without falling over the edge into "dirty hoarder" status is true. And we have as yet to give any consideration to musical instruments, balls of wool, colored pencils, the cat, the chickens and the wormery, toy box, tree house, the pitcher for the lemonade, the copper teapot, hand grinder, string of pearls, perfume decanter, ribbons...

[jennypenny]

Rich Roll's latest podcast is with Joshua Shields Millburn who has a new documentary on minimalism out. They touched on a lot of ERE-related topics. They even mentioned Fight Club, Stoics, and Thoreau.

I thought there was so much that was worthwhile I listened to it twice. Maybe it was just a case of the right message at the right time. It helped uncover some hidden issues of mine.

[CS]

For instance, it might even be the case that in the moment of adding "change furnace filters" as bi-yearly pop-up on your calendar, you will discover that you no longer wish to be a home-owner.

Ugh! Got me there. Ultimately, I suppose it comes down to whether one enjoys such activities. For example, I loathe the weekly summer reminder to mow the lawn (so I'm slowly replacing the lawn with vegetables), as well as the winter reminder the shovel the sidewalks. I even find myself entertaining sacrilegious thoughts like "maybe we should buy a condo instead" . Then there's the issue of "shit breaking all the time" which adds to it.

THAT is why I don't own a house. (I've had two in the past)

brute likes the general gist of that "Magic of Tidying up" book, even if it seems to be written for soccer moms. the gist being "why would brute own something he doesn't love owning". this is what brute has unconsciously doing for years, hence minimalism. there's only so much love to go around.

I've come to terms with the 'talking-with-my-socks' thing Kondo's got going.
I now realize, after reading up on Stoicism, that what she is practising a form of gratitude and negative visualization. The mysticism is nothing more than weaning yourself from hedonic adaptation. I now 'talk' to my favorite matte black coffee cup every morning...

Good to know. I treasure that book. It has given me permission to let a lot of stuff go. Nothing fries my brain faster than the thought of having to BUY something because I can't find it's current counterpart in some pile.

I'm also finding that I'm getting a lot more done. Treating the cutting board and utensils? Done, in less than five minutes. Less stuff is just less drain on the brain... that includes items, chores, commitments, everything.

Rich Roll's latest podcast is with Joshua Shields Millburn who has a new documentary on minimalism out. They touched on a lot of ERE-related topics. They even mentioned Fight Club, Stoics, and Thoreau.

I thought there was so much that was worthwhile I listened to it twice. Maybe it was just a case of the right message at the right time. It helped uncover some hidden issues of mine.

Wish they would do more writing than podcasts... I can sneak reading in at work. Podcasts not so much.

[TopHatFox]

I really like the ultra-light backpacking community and van dwellers on minimalism; they really know/learn how to get the most bang for the buck in what to own and what not to own.

[FBeyer]

Wouldn't ocean going sail boating be the epitome of minimalism? You HAVE to have everything you need right there, because there are no shops around to refill your stock, you also cannot have more than you need because there simply isn't room for it.

[wood]

I really like the ultra-light backpacking community and van dwellers on minimalism; they really know/learn how to get the most bang for the buck in what to own and what not to own.

Would you like to share a summary?

[jennypenny]

So far, 3 of you have told me the podcast is boring. You people are so jaded.

so listen to it at your own risk

[Ego]

So far, 3 of you have told me the podcast is boring. You people are so jaded.

so listen to it at your own risk

I thought it was good. We had a similar experiences while going through my parents house after they died. Those moments can make you look around and rethink why you are doing what you are doing. I think that question they ask at the end is at the heart of what is going on here .... What if everything you ever wanted isn't what you actually want? It is so easy to get caught up in just doing it because everyone is doing it that you assume it is what you want. It takes someone like jacob or sclass, or 7wanna, or c40 or olaz to show us that we can dismantle the way things are usually done and reconfigure and repurpose them in unusual ways that work for us.

[BRUTE]

I really like the ultra-light backpacking community and van dwellers on minimalism; they really know/learn how to get the most bang for the buck in what to own and what not to own.

brute finds that ultra backpackers have such different use cases that their tips/products are usually not very applicable to anything outside of hiking (i.e. living day to day).

van dwellers, on the other hand, are very focused on the day to day, to the point of making decisions that seem ludicrous at first, but then make sense considering they use their space very differently than most humans use those same spaces. more focused on routine, like making a cup of coffee in the morning, or packing things conveniently instead of efficiently.

[vexed87]

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... ty/504428/ - skip to the first mention of Diogenes.

He discarded his cup in favour of sipping from 'cupped' hands. Clearly he was the pinnacle of simple living.

Edit: Beware, having read the full article, it goes on to become quite complainypants.

[jennypenny]

Did you read the comments? It's The Atlantic, so very high brow and well-written ... and yet just as dopey as Yahoo comments.

I didn't completely agree with the article's author or the thrust of the book, but this comment included at the end was interesting ... "Now, Westacott writes, because “not working is in itself no longer a badge of honor,” what the economist Thorstein Veblen in 1899 called “conspicuous leisure” is being displaced by conspicuous recreation. To describe the behavior of those who tire of this arms race, perhaps there needs to be yet a new term: conspicuous frugality."

[BRUTE]

Diogenes. He discarded his cup in favour of sipping from 'cupped' hands. Clearly he was the pinnacle of simple living.

that's why brute doesn't get when humans are into stoics - stoics were to cynics (like Diogenes) what hot dogs are to fine Italian horse salami, or the North Korean space program compared to NASA.

[vexed87]

Gotta start somewhere brute!

[BRUTE]

compromisers

[Dragline]

Altucher again! Where can I spit or take a shower after uttering that foul name!

Did you read the comments? It's The Atlantic, so very high brow and well-written ... and yet just as dopey as Yahoo comments.

I didn't completely agree with the article's author or the thrust of the book, but this comment included at the end was interesting ... "Now, Westacott writes, because “not working is in itself no longer a badge of honor,” what the economist Thorstein Veblen in 1899 called “conspicuous leisure” is being displaced by conspicuous recreation. To describe the behavior of those who tire of this arms race, perhaps there needs to be yet a new term: conspicuous frugality."

Yeah, its that Mimetic thing working again.

"Let's now look at it through the Mimetic Lens. Most of the adherents of the frugality counterculture make it a point to try not to desire the objects of desire of others. Yet many often reveal that this is sometimes difficult. A number of the posts in the social groups are queries to the group as to how to avoid desires and how to balance them with other goals of financial independence, travel or other future plans. The counter-culture rallies around stories of self-discipline and realization of goals.

True, it is the case that some frugality adherents engage in competitive one-upsmanship, as in any groups of like-minded individuals, and they do copy each other willingly and swap tricks of the trade freely and often. But mostly they discuss successes and failures in dealing with friends and relatives who subscribe to the dominant consumerist culture."

http://www.prospectingmimeticfractals.c ... -frugality

[jacob]

The overall direction I see in the 2010s is that the older concept (1990-2000s) of simple living expresses itself as minimalism because we increasingly express(*) and define who we are and what we do by our stuff. Minimalism is thus an exercise in building one's identity by what we choose to own and what we choose not to own. In that sense, some forms of modern minimalism are extremely materialist/consumerist. Simple living also included removing responsibilities, relations, etc. to leave more time to focus; whereas modern minimalism almost seems to maximize the work hard/play hard lifestyle trying to emit as much CO2 as possible by consuming exotic travel, fancy food, frivolous(**) techmology... and other experiences to the max and curating the "bestest" 35 things money can buy.

(*) Or maybe that's just what bloggers do for those juicy affiliate links. The real world might be different from those of us who live in an online bubble.
(**) If it charges via USB, it's a good indicator that it's probably an overpriced solution to a problem that didn't exist 10 years ago.

Closely related is the parallel of how it shows status to be fat in a food-scarce environment, whereas where food is abundant, it shows status to be lean because it demonstrates control. (Similar dynamics for being tanned or even fit/muscular changes status according to how rare it is and who has the surplus to waste demonstrating the signal value.)

[sky]

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... ty/504428/ - skip to the first mention of Diogenes.

He discarded his cup in favour of sipping from 'cupped' hands. Clearly he was the pinnacle of simple living.

A cup is no great burden and makes drinking much easier. What's the point of making life more difficult than it needs to be just to prove a point? Cynics are forced into a place of repression of desire.

[7Wannabe5]

jacob said: whereas modern minimalism almost seems to maximize the work hard/play hard lifestyle trying to emit as much CO2 as possible by consuming exotic travel, fancy food, frivolous(**) techmology...

I don't disagree with you, but I think it would still be necessary to actually do the math to determine whether one individual attempting a "simple life" aesthetic is emitting more or less CO2 than another individual attempting a "minimalist" aesthetic. For instance, choosing to dwell in a micro-pod-apartment in a sleek new cluster of very low maintenance structures which share centralized geo-thermal system and flying to exotic locale once a year vs.living in cabin in the woods burning some wood in the stove and driving 50 miles into town for supplies once a month?

I read that if you could plug a human being into the grid, he would be around a 100 watt appliance. You can buy 100 watts of solar panels for less than $100. Petroleum is running around $44 barrel. Potatoes are around 1/100 as efficient as solar panels in conversion of solar energy. USB powered extremely frivolous novelty item sometimes used as minimalist substitute for primitive man-power available for less than $20. So, obviously, in this example, the minimalist solution would emit less CO2 than the primitive/simple solution, but would otherwise be non-preferred.

[BRUTE]

A cup is no great burden and makes drinking much easier.

for drinking water, presumably from streams and public wells, in a mediterranean climate? hands probably work 98% as well. not having to carry around a fragile item? priceless.