DIY Electrical Work?

[Spartan_Warrior]

Say, adding a circuit to a breaker panel and installing new outlets off of it in order to power an unfinished basement. How risky is this endeavor, really? Should I believe the hype? It honestly doesn't seem very technically complex, from what I can tell. About a step up from changing a car battery. DIYing it would save on the cost of the electrician as well as any permitting, etc., involved. The only real risks I see are from an insurance standpoint--if the house burns down and they find out you did home electric work, no coverage--or when it goes to sell, if a home inspector or someone raises a red flag; but both of these issues beg the question of how anyone would know that I added a circuit in the first place. It would be more or less indistinguishable from the existing installation. Does someone keep track of how many circuits are in the panel?

Meh. I dunno. Any thoughts on DIY electrical work? What tasks would you DIY versus hiring a pro?

[George the original one]

Biggest hazard is electrocuting yourself while the panel is open.

Otherwise, as ffj says, it's straight forward and there are plenty of books/videos to show you the correct way to do it.

[SimpleLife]

I would never do electrical, major plumbing or roofing work on my house myself. The risk of no coverage by insurance if something does happen is just not worth it. Part of the price you pay when outsourcing these things is to transfer the risk/liability to someone else. I liken this to being penny wise but pound foolish.

[Sclass]

silly question, when you wire a new circuit breaker box in, how do you turn the power off on the input side? The last time I looked at home electricals, the inputs went to two phases on a cable that went to the pole...so it was unclear how to turn it off while I connected to the utility wires.

This is where I get scared and start backing up. I know exactly how to wire it but if you cannot shut it off before connecting to the live wires it sounds dangerous.

Wait, there must be a switch at the meter right? I wasn't paying enough attention.

Be careful whatever you decide to do.

[Ydobon]

I would leave it to a professional. The posters advocating just going for it won't hear about it if you end up electrocuting yourself

In the UK, this is the sort of work that you would be obliged to have a qualified electrician complete.

[Slevin]

It is technically possible and very feasible. Depending on where you are, if you are a homeowner you can get a homeowners permit for building in your house that includes electrical, plumbing, etc. This allows you to do the work yourself. At the end, you will need to have an inspector come by and verify that you have done the work correctly, or they will tell you what you have messed up and you will have to redo it and then schedule a second appointment.

This way you get to do the work yourself, but still be covered in the event of a fire, etc.

As far as electrocuting yourself, yeah it hurts pretty bad but you will generally not do any permanent damage, as the current will generally be out of the most lethal range at 120, 240 (lethal current is generally between 0.1A and 0.2A, higher is much less likely to kill you). Most electricians shock themselves every once in a while.

[Riggerjack]

I second ffj and slevin. DIY, and pull a permit. Most inspectors are good at their jobs, and happy to work with homeowners. If the work is permitted and inspected, your insurance will cover it.
Safe work practices mean very minimal risk. Disconnect the main circuit breaker before opening the panel. At this point, the only hot items are the largest main cable connectors coming in from the meter, to your main circuit breaker. Don't touch those.
As to changing the full panel, contact your local utility to pull the meter. Now you can change your panel without danger. Get inspected, and call to have the meter placed.
None of this is difficult or complicated, just know what you want to do and how to do it before going in. YouTube will show you.

If it goes horribly wrong, you get shocked. 110 ain't so bad, and getting bit by 220, is really only 110, unless you manage to get both hots at the same time, a very difficult feat.

Do not piss off your inspector, or talk about religion or politics. A good indication that you have broken that rule would be if he spends 45 minutes digging through the code book, trying to find the rule you broke, and has to call 4 other inspectors, who also don't know. Yes, I'm speaking from experience.

[cmonkey]

silly question, when you wire a new circuit breaker box in, how do you turn the power off on the input side? The last time I looked at home electricals, the inputs went to two phases on a cable that went to the pole...so it was unclear how to turn it off while I connected to the utility wires.

This is where I get scared and start backing up. I know exactly how to wire it but if you cannot shut it off before connecting to the live wires it sounds dangerous.

Every main panel has a main circuit breaker that will kill power to the panel itself. The only points that will be live and cannot be turned off are the two lugs coming from outside your home. Put some electrical tape over them if you can safely do it, it makes it safer to work in the panel.

Otherwise I would recommend a non-contact voltage sensor for quick checks if something is live.

Agreed with the others, its something that can be done DIY it just depends on the risks you want to introduce.

Most risky - DIY, no permits/inspectors, no research done
Safest - Hired worked that is permitted, lots of research done

The variable here is doing the research IMO. The more you do the safer you will be. There is lots non-permitted, non-inspected work out there that is perfectly safe. Fires are the exception, not the rule.

I spent the better part of 2 months researching how to install a 100 amp subpanel and then went ahead and did it, putting it in an outdoor rated box on a fire-proof wall with smoke detectors near by. The riskiest part of the entire thing is the connection points due to oxidation. Other than that its just matching wire to breaker and you're good.


Also, once you've done even a little bit of electrical, your confidence will go up. Experience is the best teacher.



One other note - One thing I was always concerned with when learning about electrical work and adding circuits was overloading the main panel. We have a 200 amp main panel, yet the breakers on both sides add up to MUCH more than 200 amps. Something like 300 amps I think. What you need to remember is that you will NOT be using 100% of the main breaker's load at any given time (or even 100% of your breakers for that matter). Its an eb and flow thing and when you add a new circuit, you just increase the range of the eb and flow. IOW, when you are in the kitchen there should be minimal load on your bedroom and bathroom circuits and vice versa.

Same is true with individual lines. You could technically put 100 outlets on a 20 amp line and have no issues until you started using those outlets! In fact I don't think there is a code for this. Its just a matter of inconvenience because (if you sized your line to your breaker correctly) you'd just be tripping the breaker all the time. IOW, the number of outlets on a single line comes down to good design more so than safety.

[George the original one]

Now if you want to talk about electrical fire hazards, read up on aluminum wiring :-O

[OldPro]

There is a simple rule of thumb that you could follow. 'Don't do anything illegal or that will void your insurance.' Of course complying with that rule of thumb may not be simple at all. The other question is do you really want to do the job yourself?

A simple, 'go for it' without knowing what can be done legally and without voiding your insurance is easy for someone to write here, they aren't going to give you the money IF you do burn the house down or provide your widow with an income IF you kill yourself. And oh yeah, don't believe any idiot who tells you 110 volts can't kill you.
http://www.lni.wa.gov/safety/research/f ... cution.pdf

You can possibly teach yourself how to do something as well as a licensed electrician can. IF you can legally do the job where you live, then you should be able to do so without voiding your insurance. But It isn't just a question of can you, it is also a question of do you really want to. While changing a simple light bulb is something most people would not call a licensed electrician for, as the example shows, even that involves risk.

As SimpleLife wrote, part of what you pay a professional for is the transferring of liability/risk. That transfer is not just about legal liability/risk. It also pays for the transfer of the risk to life and limb. So for me, while I would change a normal light bulb myself, I wouldn't even think about touching my main electrical panel.

A comprise could be to do the wiring to the outlets/switches yourself and then hire an electrician to come in and connect it all to the panel. If you got anything wrong in regards to meeting the building code etc, he won't connect it until it is to code. When he does, ALL liability/risk will be on him.

[Sclass]

Ok that makes sense. I reread the OP and see he wanted to add another breaker to an existing panel. I was visualizing a new panel.

At my moms, the furnace guy actually added a new box with a breaker in it to the existing house wiring. I'm not sure (I cannot just look at it) if he wired to the wires coming from the meter or if he just connected downstream of our panel. I take it there is a switch someplace.

I recall the utility company can disconnect things inside the meter if there is no access outside.

[cmonkey]

Now if you want to talk about electrical fire hazards, read up on aluminum wiring :-O

Agreed, however, this is more to do with old wiring methods (and old methods of creating aluminum wire) in homes built during the 60's and 70's where you had combinations of copper/aluminum. The problems comes from how aluminum oxidizes and creates resistance to electrical current, thus creating heat/fire.

The main lines going to your home (and everyone else) are aluminum and are perfectly safe. Same with my sub-panel.

[jacob]

This thread makes a good study of how Wheaton levels relates to points of views wrt technicalities, diy vs professionals, and legalities (insurance, permitting, inspection). As usual, anything two levels removed is considered crazy.

I think the most important lesson I've learned wrt home ownership is the importance of relationships. Specifically, if you have a good relationship with a professional, he won't screw you over, you'll get priority in the queue, he may let you do some work yourself and just approve it as long is it's up to his standards (which may even be lower than yours). Also important is whether the professional has a good relationship with the city inspectors. Good relations here means no waiting weeks for the permit and sometimes not even standing in line with the rest of the peons at the building department. It can be the difference between signing off or getting railroaded with the code book. Inspectors pretty much assume the role of judge, jury, and executioner.

I think the same holds if you assume the role of the professional yourself.

FWIW, the building department where I live maintains a list of what the homeowner is allowed to DIY. Some of the entries are surprising (to me) by being on the list and some are surprising by not being on it. The list changes yearly (for example, last year we weren't allowed to DIY change an outside door, now we are). Also, the city gives out a free homeowners building permit each year up to $600 worth of materials. If you have a similar 'freebie' and you're allowed to do your own work, you can get quite far with DIY electric work in that case. If you have to hire someone, $600 would just get you a few new outlets (afair the pricing).

[OldPro]

I agree it isn't magic ffj and if you get the proper learning done, you could do anything a licenced professional can do. I don't think that is in question here.

As for your rant about being held hostage, well that's just a rant. You live in the world you live in and if that includes building codes and insurance requirements, then it is what it is. Ranting about it changes nothing.

There is a difference between being prudent and being taken advantage of. If Spartan_Warrior wants to try and save some money by doing some work himself on the electrical work for his basement, then I think there is a pretty simple middle path that can be followed. As I suggested, do the wiring up TO the panel and then have a licensed electrician make the connection.

It isn't about can you make the connection, it is about do you want to make the connection and assume the risk/liabilities involved if you do. As far as I am concerned, it isn't about being 'scared' ffj, it is about being 'stupid' enough to assume risk/liability to save a few bucks.

[cmonkey]

As far as liability, "legally" working on my own home, voiding insurance, etc, I am personally sick of being held hostage by the threat of lawsuits or other nefarious claims for simply fixing a problem easily within my capabilities. Most of the fear-mongering is simply a money grab anyway.

Hear hear!