Navigating

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reepicheep
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:45 am

Navigating

Post by reepicheep »

I need to get from here (specific location in Europe all the military people on here people have already figured out) to a specific location in the Netherlands by bike.

I am not very skillful at navigating. Partially it's practice, partially it's over-reliance on GPS, partially it's being a woman. :lol:

Trying to decide between the following options:

Assume that I 100% must have reliable phone access in case the shit hits the fan and I need to be at work immediately.

1. Bring phone + compass. Buy international SIM card; hope that the data charges for occasionally using google maps aren't crazy. Probably the cheapest option.
2. Bring phone + compass, use current SIM card. When I was in the Netherlands before I was able to spend 3 euro to get a few mb of data for 24 hours...I'm not entirely sure how I did it, because it all happened in Dutch. I don't know if I can repeat this in Belgium or France. Given the length of the trip this may be acceptable, but it's unreliable because I don't know whether I can buy data in places other than the Netherlands. Additionally, the ability of my phone to find bike paths/roads using Navmii (a data-lite navigation app) is approx. zero. Though I can find highways! And I can look at a detailed road map without data/wi-fi, as long as I've already downloaded the whole country previously.
2.5. Bring phone + compass...ask for directions and hope for the best.
3. Buy/borrow/steal some kind of GPS bike computer that has actual maps. I'm NOT happy about how much these cost.
4. Buy/borrow/steal some kind of hiking GPS. These cost more or less the same as the bike computer, but may be more versatile and less battery demanding. And the maps to download for them are sometimes as expensive as the GPS itself. And also not bike-friendly, necessarily.
5. Bring paper maps. Most low-tech option. Not necessarily the cheapest. The weight for multiple countries is probably not ideal.
6. Buy/borrow/steal a car GPS. Hope I can charge it with a camping solar panel or a hub dynamo. I don't currently own a hub dynamo. The weight's not ideal. The battery is not ideal. The non-bike specific maps are not ideal. The price is pretty good.

If I had more time, I'd care less about getting to my destination and navigation wouldn't be as big a deal...but I pretty much need to know exactly where I am throughout the duration of this trip.

Anybody have any additional suggestions or commentary on the options above? Anybody willing to sell me an old Garmin bike computer with maps?

McTrex
Posts: 180
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Location: NL

Re: Navigating

Post by McTrex »

Hi reepicheep,

I had a similar problem last year. I brought printouts of route sections from Google Maps, but these ended up hard to read and not detailed enough at times.

What I ended up doing halfway through, and will probably also do next time, is writing down an exhaustive list of all the towns and villages you'll pass along the way, in order.

Road signage, also for cyclists, is pretty good in Germany. You can look at the signs, find the farthest town on your list that's mentioned there and go in that direction. I think that will cover 90-95% of the trip.

When I did get lost in some stretches due to bad signage, I quickly checked the general direction using Google Maps on my phone. That would bring me back on the route.

Hope this helps!

sky
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Re: Navigating

Post by sky »


rube
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Location: Europe (NL)

Re: Navigating

Post by rube »

If you have a smartphone with GPS use freeware of line navigation.
Or buy navigation app for off line navigation.
Sygic.com Western Europe cost 25 euro now, world is 60 euro (it is sometimes cheaper, but you might be also paying more if you can't wait for it).
It is not for biking but for cars and walking. Probably good enough for orientation without worrying about data cost.

Quadalupe
Posts: 268
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:56 am
Location: the Netherlands

Re: Navigating

Post by Quadalupe »

The link that sky posted is very helpful I think, it is basically google maps in offline mode. That means that you can also use route planning for bikes! Also, in Netherlands the biking routes are often well marked, see this for a general introduction, this for more detail about the long distance cycle routes in the Netherlands and this for a route planner using those markings and routes.

In general, it should be fairly easy to cycle to a large city near the randstad (The Hague, Amsterdam, Utrecht, Rotterdam), because I suspect they will be listed on the bike signs quite early on. Once you are in your destined city, you can use Osmand or just a google maps printout of the city to navigate with more detail to your specific destination. If you want to go to a small village, it can become a bit more difficult.

llorona
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Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Navigating

Post by llorona »

Maybe you could buy a used bike GPS on eBay and then sell it after the trip?

Kriegsspiel
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:05 pm

Re: Navigating

Post by Kriegsspiel »

Most cafe's and restaurants have WiFi, so if you get lost, you can stop in for a bite/drink, and ask them for their password.

henrik
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Location: EE

Re: Navigating

Post by henrik »

McTrex wrote:What I ended up doing halfway through, and will probably also do next time, is writing down an exhaustive list of all the towns and villages you'll pass along the way, in order.
Road signage, also for cyclists, is pretty good in Germany. You can look at the signs, find the farthest town on your list that's mentioned there and go in that direction. I think that will cover 90-95% of the trip.
A combination of this and asking people when you're not sure will do the trick!

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Ego
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Re: Navigating

Post by Ego »

I like paper maps for bike touring for so many reasons. I don't like the fact that digital maps place me at the center of the universe. Subtly they create a feeling that the world revolves around me rather than me being one small piece of the larger world.

Creating mental maps and exercising spatial memory are extremely valuable endeavors. I've slowly come to believe that using a gps map on a bike trip (or any trip for that matter) is the cognitive equivalent of strapping a motor onto your bicycle.

See also John Huth's, The Lost Art of Finding Our Way.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Lost-Art-Find ... 0674072820

reepicheep
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Re: Navigating

Post by reepicheep »

@Ego, where do you get your maps?

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Ego
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Re: Navigating

Post by Ego »

We haven't pedaled Europe. I like michelin maps and have used them in Asia and Africa.

http://www.eurovelo.org/routes/ is a good planning guide. Once you figure out your route, you can buy the requisite maps. Also, Adventure Cycling has an excellent online guide for europe including map recommendations. http://www.adventurecycling.org/adventu ... in-europe/

reepicheep
Posts: 383
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Re: Navigating

Post by reepicheep »

Do you think I could get away with 1:500,000 scale for a country-wide map (rather than a route specific)? I feel like a country map would give me more flexibility both now and for future trips.

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Ego
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Re: Navigating

Post by Ego »

That scale would work for countries with few roads and no highways. In Europe I think it might be a little difficult to find your way through a city on secondary roads at that scale unless you were following a signed route. I have to admit, I don't remember the scale of the maps we used but I do remember buying a more detailed map book in Thailand because it better marked the distances between towns.

simplex
Posts: 212
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Location: NL

Re: Navigating

Post by simplex »

I'd recommend to go with paper maps, probably additionally the osmand app mentioned earlier.
In NL there's a cycle network called "knooppunten". This gives you scenic routes, but not direct through routes. There's an app for this.

When you buy paper maps, 1:500,000 is absolutely not sufficient, esp. in Belgium, N.France etc.
In England I mostly used 1:250,000, and that's the upper limit I would say. The German cycle maps from the ADFC are 1:150:000. The advantage of cycle maps is that they show cycle only paths, e.g. along canals where no cars are. These routes are often much nicer than just following a main road.

There are so many roads not on these maps that you'll get lost or you have to use main roads, which is not nice on a bike. Try ADFC maps, and ask them for other maps. Most of Germany and NL is covered by cycle maps, and you can get the Dutch ones at least at the ANWB (see anwb.nl) and local bookshops, once you enter NL.

reepicheep
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Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:45 am

Re: Navigating

Post by reepicheep »

Le sigh.

So I am very romantically attached to the idea of using maps. I like maps; I pick up the free tourist ones whenever I go to a new place and then I put them on my wall, I navigated through my Moroccan hitchhiking adventure with a map. I like how they don't need batteries and how you can draw on them and how you can keep them later and remember your trip.

But looking at the map prices vs. the GPS prices, it just doesn't make sense. I'd spend as much or more on maps for just a few small sections of Europe. What about when I want to go other places later? Or bike in the U.S.?

I told Jacob I probably wouldn't buy maps and I probably wouldn't buy a GPS and that I'd probably regret that decision later...so I decided not to go into the trip anticipating regretting something. Of course travel is supposed to be challenging and sometimes uncomfortable and that's how you grow, but there's an upper limit to that and I think jeopardizing my situational awareness by not being fully prepared to keep track of where I am is probably on the verge of stupid.

I'm also downloading free offline maps on my phone. I have three offline map apps now and I'm not real happy with any of them--they each have their little wonky quirks. I may be so used to the ease of google maps that I just can't be pleased. I'm worried about the battery life, also, so I think I need to plan to use my phone sparingly. There are no electrical outlets in the forest.

I think with a combo of my phone, sparingly used if necessary, and a GPS, and directions/signs, I'll be OK.

reepicheep
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Re: Navigating

Post by reepicheep »

Explorist 400 came today.

With no battery.

I'm grumpy.

jacob
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Re: Navigating

Post by jacob »

Paper maps don't need batteries. Just sayin' ;-)

PS: A good rule of thumb is only to get electronics powered by AA(preferred) or AAA(sufficient). Too late now, but ...

reepicheep
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Re: Navigating

Post by reepicheep »

Yeah. I know. We'll see. Getting pretty close to my departure date, here, not sure I can order maps at this late date. I may be able to buy some locally.

I did order a battery. We'll see if I can find someone to ship to me--there's hoops and stuff to jump when shipping lithium ion batteries internationally, but I know that it's *possible* because of all my phone-related-adventures earlier this year. One company told me they didn't ship here and offered an immediate refund; the other company appears to have accepted my order. Fingers crossed.

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Ego
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Re: Navigating

Post by Ego »

I was reminded of this thread today.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/14/opini ... -road.html

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