I need help to avoid becoming one of the collective. Here's the situation:
- I am a tech/IT guy with relatively good experience and skills working for large corporations in several countries.
- my employer recently offered a nice severance package to all who were willing to leave (they wanted to reduce costs). Of course, I jumped at this opportunity to put away some for ER, knowing my best bet at saving as much as possible would be to land a new job asap.
- I now have two job offers, the more attractive of which will mean a 4-hour daily commute via public transportation (500m/1600ft walk - 20 mins in bus - 500m/1600ft walk - 45 mins in train - 2.2km/1.4mile walk). So 4 hours in public transport to accomplish 8 hours of work. :-/
- I could cut this commute by half, if I purchased a car or leased one via my new employer. Cost of doing this would be roughly €600/$830 per month (largely due to high taxation, prices & gasoline costs here). Cost of commuting via public transport would be about 1/3rd that.
- the collective (i.e. pretty much everyone around me) thinks I ought to get a car. I've managed without one for years and resent the idea of having to get one just to get to/from work.
- riding my bicycle is not an option thanks to distance and approaching winter.
- relocating somewhere close to the workplace is unfortunately not an option either.
- I consider this job a stop-gap, 6-12 month option that will keep me going while I look for a better one elsewhere in Europe.
- the job itself will look good on my resume (I am still far far away from ER.. so I still need to care how my CV will look). I believe I will enjoy and learn much from the 8 hours a day I'll spend at work. Telecommuting some days of the week is an option, but the nature of this role is such that I'd learn most by being there in person.
- the other job I got will likely be much more stressful, working as yet-another-consultant in one of the big consulting shops. Also I don't think I'd learn as much nor find the work very interesting.
Questions:
- what would you do if you were in my place?
- how might I best use those 4 hours spent on public transport?
I'm over-educated already, so getting another degree is not that useful. However, learning a new language or gaining a new skill would be attractive.
Resisting the Borg
I have been enjoying books during my transit commutes ( 2+ hours/day).
Going to the public library & loading up on unusual reads has been refreshing (Treehouses of the world, multimedia art books and The Visual Miscellaneum have been a few that I've found).
Not focused study by any means, but creatively inspiring.
I've even met a few people on the bus since they are intrigued by the pictures or the fact that I am laughing out loud...
I'll either move closer to work soon or might pick up a IPOD with rewards points so that I can continue studying languages. I think this is a fantastic use of commuting time.
http://www.byki.com/
Going to the public library & loading up on unusual reads has been refreshing (Treehouses of the world, multimedia art books and The Visual Miscellaneum have been a few that I've found).
Not focused study by any means, but creatively inspiring.
I've even met a few people on the bus since they are intrigued by the pictures or the fact that I am laughing out loud...
I'll either move closer to work soon or might pick up a IPOD with rewards points so that I can continue studying languages. I think this is a fantastic use of commuting time.
http://www.byki.com/
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AlexOliver
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:25 pm
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RightClawSouth
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:15 am
Thanks, all, for the great suggestions!
@jacob: I don't see the reading link. Is it my browser or did you miss the URL?
@a.e.k: Byki sounds great. I'll definitely check it out. Here in Europe getting a foothold in German, French or Spanish would be very useful from both personal and career point of view.
@Cashflow: do I need an iPod to play iTunesU format? I've been doing fine so far playing MP3 files off my mobile phone. Unusual reads.. hmm. I like that.
@AlexOliver: salary negotiations are on, so I'll know for sure next week. But it should be at least as much as my previous job. I'm hoping they'll compensate for extra transportation costs. If they do, then my savings rate (currently 58%) remains the same. If they compensate me for a car, I could use public transportation to increase this rate.
May I ask why you despise your long commutes? IMHO, one major difference between here and USA is that public transport here is more expensive, but clean, used by all sections of society, and runs on time. The collective is UNANIMOUS in their opinion that I should get a decent-sized/comfortable car.
@RightClawSouth: this is how I am leaning too, but a friend rightly pointed out that I could get a used car, use it for 6-12 months, and then resell it. But oh the hassle of it all!
@jacob: I don't see the reading link. Is it my browser or did you miss the URL?
@a.e.k: Byki sounds great. I'll definitely check it out. Here in Europe getting a foothold in German, French or Spanish would be very useful from both personal and career point of view.
@Cashflow: do I need an iPod to play iTunesU format? I've been doing fine so far playing MP3 files off my mobile phone. Unusual reads.. hmm. I like that.
@AlexOliver: salary negotiations are on, so I'll know for sure next week. But it should be at least as much as my previous job. I'm hoping they'll compensate for extra transportation costs. If they do, then my savings rate (currently 58%) remains the same. If they compensate me for a car, I could use public transportation to increase this rate.
May I ask why you despise your long commutes? IMHO, one major difference between here and USA is that public transport here is more expensive, but clean, used by all sections of society, and runs on time. The collective is UNANIMOUS in their opinion that I should get a decent-sized/comfortable car.
@RightClawSouth: this is how I am leaning too, but a friend rightly pointed out that I could get a used car, use it for 6-12 months, and then resell it. But oh the hassle of it all!
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AlexOliver
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:25 pm
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George the original one
- Posts: 5406
- Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
- Location: Wettest corner of Orygun
@George: I just moved this summer and my SO lives nearby. I guess I could reconsider after I have tried the new job a bit.. but then Plan A is to move out of the country itself 6-12 months from now.
If I can find a cheap room/bed for M-F that would be ideal. But chances of finding something like that is low as this company is located in an industrial area with little housing nearby. Also, only students tend to want roommates here. And the nearest college town is well.. about 2 hours away.
If I can find a cheap room/bed for M-F that would be ideal. But chances of finding something like that is low as this company is located in an industrial area with little housing nearby. Also, only students tend to want roommates here. And the nearest college town is well.. about 2 hours away.
I used to live in a place where I had to commute about 4 hours daily in public transit. Walk, Bus, Metro, Metro, Bus. Most every weekday for a year. It is somewhat challenging to find something constructive to do while being jostled about so much.
The easiest single activity I was able to carry on during the whole commute was listening to podcasts and audiobooks. As for actual reading, I found lighter reads better suited than anything technical or "difficult".
The easiest single activity I was able to carry on during the whole commute was listening to podcasts and audiobooks. As for actual reading, I found lighter reads better suited than anything technical or "difficult".
Since everyone is going the "no car" route with their advice, I will do the opposite.
It is also possible to buy a cheap reliable used car that only has a few years of life left on it. You don't have to spend $20k. If you are willing to drive an unpopular vehicle (Chrysler/Dodge in the U.S.) and take a slight risk of breaking down, you could get the price down rather low. You could then sell it after a year and recoup some of your cost. Obviously, this would still be more expensive, but some times you have to spend money for your sanity.
Concerning the lease option, if you can't break the lease without penalty in a year or so, it probably isn't worth it.
Now after going pro-car I will make one point I don't think anyone has brought up yet. If you are not used to driving a car in what sounds like rush hour traffic in a rather major metro area you could be in for a shock. It sucks. Being jostled around on public transit is a pleasure when compared to 30-60 minutes of stop and go traffic. Trust me. I live in one of the top 5 worst traffic cities in the U.S.
It is also possible to buy a cheap reliable used car that only has a few years of life left on it. You don't have to spend $20k. If you are willing to drive an unpopular vehicle (Chrysler/Dodge in the U.S.) and take a slight risk of breaking down, you could get the price down rather low. You could then sell it after a year and recoup some of your cost. Obviously, this would still be more expensive, but some times you have to spend money for your sanity.
Concerning the lease option, if you can't break the lease without penalty in a year or so, it probably isn't worth it.
Now after going pro-car I will make one point I don't think anyone has brought up yet. If you are not used to driving a car in what sounds like rush hour traffic in a rather major metro area you could be in for a shock. It sucks. Being jostled around on public transit is a pleasure when compared to 30-60 minutes of stop and go traffic. Trust me. I live in one of the top 5 worst traffic cities in the U.S.
Hi All.
Thanks a bunch for the great replies and pointers. I've been at the new job nearly 3 months now and want to share what I ended up doing.
First 2 months, I tried public transport. But the harsh winter (too much white stuff) led to trains getting delayed and some days taking 2 1/2 to 3 hours just trying to get to work. As frustrating as it was, I also noticed that digging the car out of snow and getting the windshield clean every morning is a time hog in itself. But public transport prices here have been going up with gas prices (now approaching €1.5/liter or US$8/gallon). So my tickets were costing me about €270/US$365 per month.
I did my best to spread the word at work that I was looking for others driving from my area (turns out the company had no forums or notice boards - so I took to dropping the word during introductions). Apparently car hogs enjoy the flexibility of being able to arrive and leave work when they wish - so the couple of people I found that were driving from my neighborhood weren't interested even if it would halve their gas bill.
Colleagues were beginning to shake their heads in amazement at my not having given in yet and I was beginning to question my Green+ER values.
I did not have much luck finding a place close to work that offered a bed. Rentals in the nearby town are ridiculously high for a town out in the boondocks.
On the positive side, I was able to get a head-start by working on the train. The best part was the 20 min walk from train station to office and back. I took the short-cut through the forest that few seemed to take. Fresh powder snow, peace, quiet, fresh air, darkness.. bliss (experiencing nature) and despair (questioning the purpose of life).
And then a stroke of luck. I got an email from a bunch of fresh R&D engineers who were car-pooling from a bus-stop that's 20 mins away from me. I joined right away and have enjoyed it since. Commute times are down to 75 mins one-way - still too long but then Plan A remains to get out of this country. Cost is less than half compared to public transport (4, sometimes 5, in a car). I can't work during the commute anymore but at least the company is nice and I get to hear all about life in the R&D labs.
Interestingly, young people - for lack of money or a greater sense of where this planet is headed - seem to be greenest and thus most likely to carpool, ride the bike, etc. So if you are out looking for a carpool, they are the ones to ask first.
Thanks a bunch for the great replies and pointers. I've been at the new job nearly 3 months now and want to share what I ended up doing.
First 2 months, I tried public transport. But the harsh winter (too much white stuff) led to trains getting delayed and some days taking 2 1/2 to 3 hours just trying to get to work. As frustrating as it was, I also noticed that digging the car out of snow and getting the windshield clean every morning is a time hog in itself. But public transport prices here have been going up with gas prices (now approaching €1.5/liter or US$8/gallon). So my tickets were costing me about €270/US$365 per month.
I did my best to spread the word at work that I was looking for others driving from my area (turns out the company had no forums or notice boards - so I took to dropping the word during introductions). Apparently car hogs enjoy the flexibility of being able to arrive and leave work when they wish - so the couple of people I found that were driving from my neighborhood weren't interested even if it would halve their gas bill.
Colleagues were beginning to shake their heads in amazement at my not having given in yet and I was beginning to question my Green+ER values.
I did not have much luck finding a place close to work that offered a bed. Rentals in the nearby town are ridiculously high for a town out in the boondocks.
On the positive side, I was able to get a head-start by working on the train. The best part was the 20 min walk from train station to office and back. I took the short-cut through the forest that few seemed to take. Fresh powder snow, peace, quiet, fresh air, darkness.. bliss (experiencing nature) and despair (questioning the purpose of life).
And then a stroke of luck. I got an email from a bunch of fresh R&D engineers who were car-pooling from a bus-stop that's 20 mins away from me. I joined right away and have enjoyed it since. Commute times are down to 75 mins one-way - still too long but then Plan A remains to get out of this country. Cost is less than half compared to public transport (4, sometimes 5, in a car). I can't work during the commute anymore but at least the company is nice and I get to hear all about life in the R&D labs.
Interestingly, young people - for lack of money or a greater sense of where this planet is headed - seem to be greenest and thus most likely to carpool, ride the bike, etc. So if you are out looking for a carpool, they are the ones to ask first.
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ElysianFields
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:20 am