Early Retirement Extreme Forums

enigma is the god of tractors and pickup trucks.

"You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. - Jim Rohn"

I've always had a suspicion this is just a causation fallacy.

care to elaborate?

I'll guess: he means is it a cause or an effect?

I firmly believe that I don't know.

UrbanHermit wrote:"You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. - Jim Rohn"

I've always had a suspicion this is just a causation fallacy.

Well, there is certainly a lot of evidence that things like moods are contagious.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sc ... al-mimicry

As well as eating habits, drinking habits, sleep schedules, menstrual cycles, television watching, work habits, ...... Mirror neurons and hormones are powerful.

So I am pretty sure the causation fallacy is not at play... but who knows...

Right. Women are on average more happy than men, so that is why on average men gain more happiness from marriage than women. I am naturally even more cheerful than most women, so I have to kind of like run in quick and grab some sex, and maybe a cuddle, and then hurry up and get back home before one of them starts complaining to me about his work, or telling me the proper way to load a dishwasher, or yelling at traffic...etc. etc. etc.

7Wannabe5 wrote:Right. Women are on average more happy than men, so ......

Hum. How does that jive with the fact that 1 in 4 women but only 1 in 7 men are taking an antidepressant? Or maybe that's the reason women report being happier...


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/01/opini ... .html?_r=0

Well, that article was obviously written by a woman with depressive tendencies because she assumes that the opposite of sad/anxious is "dulled of all feeling", rather than something like joyful/enthusiastic. OTOH, I have learned that it is generally considered to be more lady-like to use your feeling words rather than your action words. So, when I am trying to be more lady-like, I try to remember to express my positive feelings, even though like most people in our culture, I have been trained to either not express my feelings or to only express my negative feelings. For example, if you are in a really good mood and you say "Let's go climb Mt. Everest!! " then that is generally seen as a signal of dominance, but if you just say "I am soooo excited!!" or "I feel warm and cozy." or "I like ice cream. Yum. Thank you : )" then you will not be signaling dominance even if you have naturally fairly high serotonin levels or the spirit animal of the bunny in your juvenile feminine quadrant and the spirit animal of the monkey (naturally high dopamine levels) in your juvenile masculine quadrant.

Ego wrote:

7Wannabe5 wrote:Right. Women are on average more happy than men, so ......

Hum. How does that jive with the fact that 1 in 4 women but only 1 in 7 men are taking an antidepressant? Or maybe that's the reason women report being happier...


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/01/opini ... .html?_r=0

"Medical chart reviews consistently show that doctors are more likely to give women psychiatric medications than men, especially women between the ages of 35 and 64."

That quote explains it. Women are given anti-depressants instead of hormone replacement therapy now that doctors no longer recommend it for most women.

Well, you'd probably also have to consider and factor in which gender tends to self-medicate more and which one is more likely to ask for directions.

jennypenny wrote:Women are given anti-depressants instead of hormone replacement therapy now that doctors no longer recommend it for most women.

How does it jive with 7w's point that women are happier than men? Are they giving antidepressants to happy menopausal women because.... they've got to prescribe something and can't give 'em hrt? That's crazy.

I think because most women become more emotional as they approach menopause and as she said, society presumes more emotional = less happy. Women make the same assumption and request the meds so they can feel like their old selves again. (which I personally think is a mistake--I think you're supposed to feel differently after menopause)

Well, it is also natural to eventually die, so age at menopause appears to be a significant factor in longevity.


lhttp://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/25/us/he ... evity.html


One clear physiological symptom shared frequently by people suffering from depression and sometimes by women going through menopause is the early-wake-up form of insomnia. I think the first things a doctor should be prescribing would be regular exercise, frequent sex and less alcohol (if taken in excess.) and not being too fat or too skinny. Because I believe in keeping things on the up and up, I have informed both of my paramours that I am using their "services" in order to keep my sexual activity level high enough to delay menopause for another few years, and thereby buy myself a not insignificant increase in longevity. Even though they have very different personality types, they both responded with "trying not to laugh", so ...

Anyways, I think one mechanism through which the traits transfer is through some factors like shame, competitiveness, envy, etc. Both of my lovers and my sister with whom I live are very fit for their ages. Me, not so much. Everybody on this forum is very good at saving money. Me not so much (although due to top line fail rather than much more common bottom line fail.) Now, my sister will say mean things or abandon me alone on a scary strip of zombie-apocalypse Detroit if I can't keep up with her on a bike ride, even though she knows that my bike is cruddier than hers, but men with whom I am in relationship often have more mixed motivations regarding the pros and cons, benefits or expenses of choosing to associate with those lacking the shoulder-to-hip ratio that would most expedite a trip up Mt. Everest (the practices of Spartan society being an obvious example of exception that proves the rule.) Therefore, it is up to me to decide how irksome I would find it to be left tucked in a chair next to a fire at some base camp lodge, etc. etc. etc. Goals and boundaries in alignment with self-aware, self-care. Prime directive.

This is completely anecdotal, but I find that I can accurately guess more than 90% of the time upon meeting someone whether they get regular cardiovascular exercise or not. Not by their physique, but by their attitude and the level of happiness/satisfaction with life that I perceive. Barring being in the middle of some negative life-changing event like death in the family or a divorce, people I know that are happy get heart-related exercise regularly, and people I know that are unhappy do not.

@GandK: Completely concur. The funny thing I've noticed is that even a lot of work won't give the effect, but very moderate but consistent exercise will. For instance, intermittently lifting very heavy boxes all afternoon vs. randomly dancing around the kitchen with my headphones on for an hour.

WaPo: Why Smart People are Better Off with Fewer Friends

I actually think the author misunderstood the implications of the research a little, but it's still an interesting read.

Here's the abstract from the paper (emphasis mine):
We propose the savanna theory of happiness, which suggests that it is not only the current consequences of a given situation but also its ancestral consequences that affect individuals' life satisfaction and explains why such influences of ancestral consequences might interact with intelligence. We choose two varied factors that characterize basic differences between ancestral and modern life - population density and frequency of socialization with friends - as empirical test cases. As predicted by the theory, population density is negatively, and frequency of socialization with friends is positively, associated with life satisfaction. More importantly, the main associations of life satisfaction with population density and socialization with friends significantly interact with intelligence, and, in the latter case, the main association is reversed among the extremely intelligent. More intelligent individuals experience lower life satisfaction with more frequent socialization with friends. This study highlights the utility of incorporating evolutionary perspectives in the study of subjective well-being.

I'm tempted to pay for a copy of the full paper.

I didn't see a really good explanation of "Why?" I think it's because most other people are annoying. My best friend (see him a couple times a year) is smarter than I am, but some of his deliberate stupidities annoy me. I don't think mine annoy him so much. He seems to be much more tolerant of other people. Maybe because he's an extrovert and I'm an introvert.

Thanks Jennypenny,now I have a great excuse as to why I avoid people so much,my "intelligence".
Wonder how that will go down with my DH...

enigmaT120 wrote:My best friend (see him a couple times a year) is smarter than I am, but some of his deliberate stupidities annoy me.

brute would argue that "intelligence", if it can even be defined, is highly specialized and localized. while there seem many humans who are extremely adapt in one specialized skill, and a few humans that are generally good with many skills, there seem to be almost no humans that are extremely good even at several skills (not to speak of many). brute has met one, maybe two people in his life that he would describe as "extremely intelligent". just being really good at math or some other specialized skill usually says nothing about how a human will perform at other tasks.

1) social isolation is really bad (source: Ego's article)
2) FI correlates with social isolation (source: my opinion)

1 + 2) Hmm...