I am starting on the path to ER(E) 2/25 units of annual expenses. Im considering taking a year off of work and I want to get an outside perspective.
Taking a year off would add 2 years to reaching FI. It would also give me a (my first?) taste of freedom. I would spend some time on some personal projects and a couple of business ideas.
So what are your thaughts? an act of madness? Or a good way to spend resources?
Is it worth taking a break?
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frugaladventurer
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Not a bad idea. A test run lets you test out some of your plans and actually experience some of it.
Personally, I took a sabbatical leave several years back that was eight weeks away from work. After six weeks of my trial E.R. period, I called my boss and told him I was never coming back.
I found another job closer to home about a month later (I was not quite ready for ER), but those ~3 months of unemployment were pure and simple bliss. I was astounded at how little I actually spent during that time and it spurred me on toward my goal with new vigor...
Personally, I took a sabbatical leave several years back that was eight weeks away from work. After six weeks of my trial E.R. period, I called my boss and told him I was never coming back.
I found another job closer to home about a month later (I was not quite ready for ER), but those ~3 months of unemployment were pure and simple bliss. I was astounded at how little I actually spent during that time and it spurred me on toward my goal with new vigor...
Easily the happiest people I've worked with were the ones that took a year or two off to sail around the world, cycle across the country etc etc. But these people also did not have the concept of quitting careers forever in only 5yrs of work, they thought they were just taking breaks from a lifetime career.
We don't have a plan for breaks before FI, because it's not so far out into the future, and our current employment situation is fantastic. We figure we'll make hay while the sun is shining...
We don't have a plan for breaks before FI, because it's not so far out into the future, and our current employment situation is fantastic. We figure we'll make hay while the sun is shining...
When I think of updating my resume, portfolio, searching/applying for jobs, dealing with some HR gatekeeper and then all the dumb mind games of an actual interview I realize I'd rather just sprint towards the finish.
I think I will ask for some sabbatical option before I quit, but that's a hail marry...
I think I will ask for some sabbatical option before I quit, but that's a hail marry...
I took a break after working for about 5 years. I had no plan, I was just sick of my job and had the money. I got bored in a few months, ended up doing something similar at another company a few months after that.
Outside of the opportunity cost of not working and money spent, my salary dropped about 10k as a result of the poorly managed transition. Building that back up took a few more years. Not my smartest financial move.
It turned out the things that were making me unhappy, related to problems specific to the company I was at. Had I changed employers while working, I would have done much better.
Could I have understood that without the time off? I have no idea. Knowing what it's like to not work changed my perspective considerably. Doing _nothing_ is not for me. A lot of the activities I took pleasure in, were primarily enjoyable as escapes from the stress of working.
Learning that changed my approach to life considerably. At first I threw myself into my work. It was the most rewarding thing I knew to do, but after a few years, made me very one dimensional. Gradually I weaned off of that and focused on developing an identity that does not rely upon my profession.
Knowing I won't be happy doing nothing, I've focused my time working towards FI trying to understand what is I will be happy doing. I've got everything around that 40 hour hole worked out, but have no idea what my central focus will be. When I figure it out, I'll be ready, but I'm in no hurry either.
A funny part about lowering expenses so far, is that "when I retire, I'll..." can probably cover your costs before you are FI. If I knew the answer to that statement, I might do it right now.
Outside of the opportunity cost of not working and money spent, my salary dropped about 10k as a result of the poorly managed transition. Building that back up took a few more years. Not my smartest financial move.
It turned out the things that were making me unhappy, related to problems specific to the company I was at. Had I changed employers while working, I would have done much better.
Could I have understood that without the time off? I have no idea. Knowing what it's like to not work changed my perspective considerably. Doing _nothing_ is not for me. A lot of the activities I took pleasure in, were primarily enjoyable as escapes from the stress of working.
Learning that changed my approach to life considerably. At first I threw myself into my work. It was the most rewarding thing I knew to do, but after a few years, made me very one dimensional. Gradually I weaned off of that and focused on developing an identity that does not rely upon my profession.
Knowing I won't be happy doing nothing, I've focused my time working towards FI trying to understand what is I will be happy doing. I've got everything around that 40 hour hole worked out, but have no idea what my central focus will be. When I figure it out, I'll be ready, but I'm in no hurry either.
A funny part about lowering expenses so far, is that "when I retire, I'll..." can probably cover your costs before you are FI. If I knew the answer to that statement, I might do it right now.
I planned to play a lot of video games. Without a job, I lost all interest in them.
I bought a pool table, but again, without a job, I lost all interest in playing.
Ultimately I ended up doing the following a few times a week:
Lifting weights
Biking / hiking (no car, so this was my transportation)
Eating out
Reading a book (close to one a day)
Beating the internet (what a waste)
I took in a relative's dog while they were sick. I researched what to do next with my career. I picked up a little (10-20 hours a month) contract work. This was mostly escapism type stuff though, no real challenges.
Without some "big" thing to learn and improve at, life was boring. It didn't help that my social circle had atrophied to my work at the time I quit. It's not like I had friends to go see during the day. I didn't really know how to make them outside the confines of work / school either.
Since then, I've paid more attention to making my hobbies challenging and social. Given that I am introverted, I also transitioned my job to something more isolated, freeing mental energy to have a life outside work. It's a better balance and has improved the quality of my days. I like to think it's also made me a more interesting person.
I bought a pool table, but again, without a job, I lost all interest in playing.
Ultimately I ended up doing the following a few times a week:
Lifting weights
Biking / hiking (no car, so this was my transportation)
Eating out
Reading a book (close to one a day)
Beating the internet (what a waste)
I took in a relative's dog while they were sick. I researched what to do next with my career. I picked up a little (10-20 hours a month) contract work. This was mostly escapism type stuff though, no real challenges.
Without some "big" thing to learn and improve at, life was boring. It didn't help that my social circle had atrophied to my work at the time I quit. It's not like I had friends to go see during the day. I didn't really know how to make them outside the confines of work / school either.
Since then, I've paid more attention to making my hobbies challenging and social. Given that I am introverted, I also transitioned my job to something more isolated, freeing mental energy to have a life outside work. It's a better balance and has improved the quality of my days. I like to think it's also made me a more interesting person.
Yeah, the "and then what" part of ERE is tricky. If you know it up front, there's no real transition - you just get busy doing what you love. But for most people it takes time to discover, and you'll never find it until you unplug from the Matrix and really start exploring.
It's also true that many ERE types are likely very goal driven - it's how they were motivated to accomplish ER in the first place, and also why a previous successful career can lose its luster once conquered. Challenging yourself in life is important. It just doesn't always need to require filling out a W4.
It's also true that many ERE types are likely very goal driven - it's how they were motivated to accomplish ER in the first place, and also why a previous successful career can lose its luster once conquered. Challenging yourself in life is important. It just doesn't always need to require filling out a W4.
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secretwealth
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I agree 100% with JohnnyH (Johnny, I bet you didn't see that one coming, did you?).
Right now, labor is being squeezed so much that it's becoming harder and harder to get your foot in the door, and all employers are acting like the Belle of the Ball, looking for engineers to work for $12 per hour, law school grads to be happy with hourly positions, and much, much worse.
Before you do anything, read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/busin ... d=all&_r=1&
It's gotten to the point where people are willing to accept emotional abuse if it gets them the hint of a possibility of a job interview.
I have had the dubious privilege of speaking to a number of HR drones not as an applicant but as a journalist, and while ethics won't allow me to repeat what was said in those conversations, I will say this: anyone who can avoid dealing with these guys and still does it is seriously an idiot.
Right now, labor is being squeezed so much that it's becoming harder and harder to get your foot in the door, and all employers are acting like the Belle of the Ball, looking for engineers to work for $12 per hour, law school grads to be happy with hourly positions, and much, much worse.
Before you do anything, read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/busin ... d=all&_r=1&
It's gotten to the point where people are willing to accept emotional abuse if it gets them the hint of a possibility of a job interview.
I have had the dubious privilege of speaking to a number of HR drones not as an applicant but as a journalist, and while ethics won't allow me to repeat what was said in those conversations, I will say this: anyone who can avoid dealing with these guys and still does it is seriously an idiot.
@sw: We agree? I am deeply unsettled! 
It is depressing, though. Pre-crash salaries were always advertised in my field, now they never are. I suspect because no one accepts them unless they're under a big pile of sunk-cost interviews, HR hoops and brutal "acceptable compensation" negotiations... They probably put cigarettes out on the applicant's body during some of those to foster the proper mindset.
Akratic said one of the reasons he retired was he always felt he could find a good job later... I am less optimistic for myself. The unemployed population has countless ambitious, young go-getters that would be happy to work for less than I do...
A series of losing portfolio years and/or some black swan forcing me to re-enter the demoralizing and humiliating job seeking process might be my biggest retirement fear.
It is depressing, though. Pre-crash salaries were always advertised in my field, now they never are. I suspect because no one accepts them unless they're under a big pile of sunk-cost interviews, HR hoops and brutal "acceptable compensation" negotiations... They probably put cigarettes out on the applicant's body during some of those to foster the proper mindset.
Akratic said one of the reasons he retired was he always felt he could find a good job later... I am less optimistic for myself. The unemployed population has countless ambitious, young go-getters that would be happy to work for less than I do...
A series of losing portfolio years and/or some black swan forcing me to re-enter the demoralizing and humiliating job seeking process might be my biggest retirement fear.
Statistically it's much easier to get in to Harvard than some jobs today. I'm not sure how true it really is, but it's tempting to think the job market is moving around what skillsets are valued faster than ever. (Certainly plenty of MSM articles that say that)
We were on a roadtrip this weekend and were discussing what we'd do if we had an unscheduled break. IE- got fired.
I think Jacob's recent attempts to push the crowd's thinking toward ERE not just being about FI/investments is the best insurance against the future we can really have.
We were on a roadtrip this weekend and were discussing what we'd do if we had an unscheduled break. IE- got fired.
I think Jacob's recent attempts to push the crowd's thinking toward ERE not just being about FI/investments is the best insurance against the future we can really have.
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secretwealth
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"A series of losing portfolio years and/or some black swan forcing me to re-enter the demoralizing and humiliating job seeking process might be my biggest retirement fear."
Yup, same here--it's one reason I am a staunch proponent of semi-ERE augmented by freelancing income. If the labor market is going to fuck us over, we might as well take advantage of the one thing this shitty labor market does give us: flexibility and freedom to float.
Yup, same here--it's one reason I am a staunch proponent of semi-ERE augmented by freelancing income. If the labor market is going to fuck us over, we might as well take advantage of the one thing this shitty labor market does give us: flexibility and freedom to float.
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jacob
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@Zeran - You have saved 2 years out of 25 years? (I'd aim higher unless you plan to do sporadic work). But you also say that it only takes you two years to do the remaining 23 years suggesting a savings rate >90%. Did I get that right?
It depends. What's your plan? Sit on a beach for the rest of your life? Start a business that will probably work ... or one which will probably not work? If you're looking to change track, two years is plenty (a lot can happen). If you're looking to relax/lay back, two years is not that long.
I guess if I had to provide a very generic answer. Look towards your current spare time:
1) If you already have side incomes. Money, attention, connections... some kind of capital, you don't need much.
2) If your spare time efforts have so far generated none of the above, you need a lot more money.
It depends. What's your plan? Sit on a beach for the rest of your life? Start a business that will probably work ... or one which will probably not work? If you're looking to change track, two years is plenty (a lot can happen). If you're looking to relax/lay back, two years is not that long.
I guess if I had to provide a very generic answer. Look towards your current spare time:
1) If you already have side incomes. Money, attention, connections... some kind of capital, you don't need much.
2) If your spare time efforts have so far generated none of the above, you need a lot more money.
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dot_com_vet
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While I would definitely love to, I would not dare.
A former colleague left the job and went to travel for 6 months. After he came back it took him more than another 6 months to find a new gig. And he is a technically competent person which really does add value.
Better to get it over with, at least for us who aspire for speedy ERE... It really is a race for me as I can`t wait to get out.
I`m at 8/25 but since I have a savings rate of above 90% my projection is 3-4 years more.
A former colleague left the job and went to travel for 6 months. After he came back it took him more than another 6 months to find a new gig. And he is a technically competent person which really does add value.
Better to get it over with, at least for us who aspire for speedy ERE... It really is a race for me as I can`t wait to get out.
I`m at 8/25 but since I have a savings rate of above 90% my projection is 3-4 years more.
@Zeran - I'm a bit skeptical about taking a break so soon into your FI journey. I was laid-off with 20/25 years of expenses saved, and I was initially unsure whether I should take some time off.
If you think your job is OK, then you may want to stick it out and build on the great start you've made toward independence.
If you're miserable in your job, then take time off and find something better.
If you think your job is OK, then you may want to stick it out and build on the great start you've made toward independence.
If you're miserable in your job, then take time off and find something better.
It'll take me 10 years to get to FI from my current point.
I'm programmer myself. In my present job, the longer I stay the less employable I think Ill be (i'm basically doing scripting atm). Working on my own projects will improve my employability ( I think).
A problem I face at the moment is I don't have enough spare time and energy to work on projects that I want to given that I am working.( also aware that better personal time management could afford me more time).
I guess my plan is that in that year off I would create a few revenue streams. I presently have none outside of my employment. If I could generate enough revenue streams that I could cover my expenses then I wouldn't return to employment.
A "requirement" to take the time off for me, would be to create a revenue stream with my spare time to prove I can do it.
@jacob im 2/25 and it'll take 10 years to complete that. I meant that a 1 year break will add 2 years until FI (given I spend 1 unit and the opportunity cost of not earning more units in that time)
The points of view given in the responses are useful, thanks
, Just responding now has made me realize how much I value creating my own revenue streams from my own projects. I'm hoping it's not that hard to get back into employment after a 1 year break.
I'm programmer myself. In my present job, the longer I stay the less employable I think Ill be (i'm basically doing scripting atm). Working on my own projects will improve my employability ( I think).
A problem I face at the moment is I don't have enough spare time and energy to work on projects that I want to given that I am working.( also aware that better personal time management could afford me more time).
I guess my plan is that in that year off I would create a few revenue streams. I presently have none outside of my employment. If I could generate enough revenue streams that I could cover my expenses then I wouldn't return to employment.
A "requirement" to take the time off for me, would be to create a revenue stream with my spare time to prove I can do it.
@jacob im 2/25 and it'll take 10 years to complete that. I meant that a 1 year break will add 2 years until FI (given I spend 1 unit and the opportunity cost of not earning more units in that time)
The points of view given in the responses are useful, thanks
, Just responding now has made me realize how much I value creating my own revenue streams from my own projects. I'm hoping it's not that hard to get back into employment after a 1 year break.