Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

[okumurahata]

Today, I was on the verge of a rage quit. There’s a coworker who works closely with me whom I can’t stand. I needed to take a break and finish earlier today, or else I might explode. This coworker acts like my boss, and I can’t stand it. I can’t motivate myself to come into work here. I feel like at any moment, I’ll do something I might regret. It’s difficult to control emotions when you’re in a bad situation.

[okumurahata]

After arriving home, I find solace in the calm. Took a nap and had a moment to contemplate the trials of the salaryman. I might come across as brash in some of my posts, and perhaps I should cultivate more patience with people I find insufferable. But I can’t help but ponder if this is truly worth it. I’m stuck with a dismal salary, toiling away at something I don’t particularly relish, surrounded by people I don’t care for. The predicament lies in whether I should seek a new environment, or if this cycle will simply perpetuate itself. Why this aversion to being bossed around? Why is it so elusive for me to find a place where contentment lasts beyond three years? Today, I feel utterly despondent, and I want to document it in this diary, so that in the future, I’ll remember why I never want to hold a job again.

[ertyu]

You might want to consider therapy - what you're describing, reacting with anger to an entitled asshole, is exactly the sort of thing a. a therapist can help you fix by practising being assertive so it can give you a type of behavior to use to respond to this with strength rather than with anger - which is an emotion of powerlessness at least in my opinion. And b., you can afford it plus you are not a psychological horrorshow. Many therapists love this type of client because it gives them the psychological bandwidth and financial ability to, say, offer a sliding scale payment and accept a client with complex trauma and a shitshow abuse history.

Nothing wrong with also using this experience to fuel your drive to FI, of course. One doesn't preclude the other.

[okumurahata]

Yes, I need to change this passive behaviour and become more assertive. In fact, yesterday I had dinner with my family, and they advised me not to hold back when I feel the need to speak up. They emphasized that I’ve always strived to be polite and respectful, but it’s crucial for me to channel my anger and emotions positively, and not view my opinions/interests as inferior to someone else’s.

They suggested that, instead of quitting, I use this opportunity to express myself more, overcome my fear of conflict, and reminded me that if I were to lose my job due to this change in attitude, I could find something else.

As for therapy, it’s not something I’m considering at the moment, since the interest of a therapist seems to be at odds with mine. The incentive of a therapist is that I stay the longest (since they are professionals and it benefits them financially), while I’d prefer to minimise spending.

In conclusion, I will get some books from the library and trial/error assertive cookie cutter sentences at first. I will start by writing and little by little, try to apply them in conversations. Let’s see how the experiment goes…

[delay]

In fact, yesterday I had dinner with my family, and they advised me not to hold back when I feel the need to speak up.

In my experience paying attention to something feeds it. It often pays to ignore things you don't like.

I used to think a boss is paid by the owners to extract value from employees. But if that were true, bosses would make the work environment productive. It seems that the owners set multiple goals. Like protecting their property from dependence on specific humans, preventing people from teaming up and demanding a raise, and good relations with the government.

Being open and honest fits with a friendly relation. A boss relation is often hostile. Boss style people naturally enjoy control, they're OK with consuming you, and they're good at it. If you just want to work, a "yes man" style seems to work well. Bosses hear your agreement clearly, but they barely perceive your actions.

[ertyu]

I will get some books from the library and trial/error assertive cookie cutter sentences at first. I will start by writing and little by little, try to apply them in conversations. Let’s see how the experiment goes…

Not a bad approach, I did books as well. Good luck

There's also a lot of youtube content on the topic but a lot of it is wishy-washy, with low info-to-volume ratio. I'm sure good videos exist but someone other than me needs to recommend them

Here is what seems to be an alright starter article from Harvard Business Review. The book Difficult Conversations was recommended to me on this forum in the past, so I'm passing along the recommendation. It's from 1999, so it should be easy to find. Searching "difficult conversations book summary" turned up a couple of promising youtube videos as well.

[okumurahata]

October 2023 update:

Code: Select all

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Assets
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stocks: 34.277,85 EUR
Cash: 14.789,5 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 49.067,35 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Liabilities
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Debt: 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly income
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Job: 1.900 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 1.900 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly expenses
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rent: 500 EUR
Electricity: ~40 EUR
Water: ~35 EUR
Internet: 35 EUR
Food: ~400 EUR
Gym: ~50 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 1.060 EUR
+----------------------------------+

Progress until retirement (considering 25x yearly expenses):

Code: Select all

⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 15,42%

Made 0 progress this month due to 2 reasons. First, my portfolio didn't perform well. After injecting some cash, I find myself sitting at almost the same value as last month. Second, the case of Swiss Air is still pending resolution with Mastercard, but I'm assuming the worst-case scenario, and that the ~600 EUR are lost.

The numbers would be ~600 EUR higher if I get my money back (last month this amount was counted, since Swiss Air didn't receive the cash back). Anyway, the Mastercard resolution takes up to 45 days, and I filed the claim almost two weeks ago. I believe that at some point this month, I will know the result.

My life is pretty mundane right now: work, gym, rest. On weekends, I take care of the garden, which is good for my mental health. I enjoy watching the garden progress; it's a satisfying feeling. I'm also tempted to buy a second-hand car (I've never had a car in my life). It would make things easier (I don't live in the downtown area) and sometimes it's convenient to have a car for buying groceries. My ERE brain tells me that I don't need it, and I probably won't buy it. But sometimes it's difficult to do certain things with a motorbike.

[okumurahata]

Note to myself, don’t be so foolish as to buy a car if you don’t actually need it, okay okumurahata? Accelerate towards financial independence, not towards stagnation.

Shifting gears, this week I received an email from the library offering me a three-month job with the option to choose between working 12.5 to 37 hours per week. I’m tempted to leave my engineering job, which feels like a nightmare for my brain, for a more serene environment. However, my stubborn engineer ego is holding me back. It’s somehow easier to have a certain status when you’re an engineer, rather than a librarian. It’s strange that I passed the exam to become a librarian for the public libraries in my city a couple of years ago. It’s also odd that I attempted to become a writer, and I sometimes feel embarrassed about the books I published. My engineering colleagues might poke fun at it, unbeknownst to me. What was unexpected was that I received an excellent grade in customer service on the library exam, despite my INTJ nature, which led me to believe I’d be terrible with people. It appears I have a certain sensitivity towards humans, perhaps because I can understand how much a person can endure when they’re facing a social issue of some kind. The salary at the library is 1700 EUR/month, not too different from my engineering job, but it comes with a significant reduction in problems and mental strain.

Now, shifting topics again. There’s a woman at work, four years younger than me, who has been in this position for four years (I’ve been here for two). She has education X, while I have education Y, and sometimes she attempts to educate me on matters related to education Y. It makes me feel rather disheartened, not because she’s trying to share knowledge (I enjoy learning) but because it’s my area of expertise, and someone explaining things to me that I’m supposed to know feels demoralizing. On the other hand, I sense there may be some sort of attraction between us, and we have a love-hate dynamic. It’s peculiar. She’s intelligent and attractive, but her attitude can be quite offensive to other people, just becasuse she has occupied the chair for longer.

[mathiverse]

I despised every day at that job [as an Oracle techie], to the extent that I contemplated suicide by the end of the contract. Eventually, I quit and took some time to reflect on what I should do next. Fortunately, I had saved some money by this point. Having an open schedule worked wonders for my mental health.

...
Eventually, I reach a breaking point and quit. This cycle has repeated itself with the four jobs I've had over the past seven years.
...

During a gap between two engineering positions, I worked at the local library for three months. It was a refreshing experience that made me realize there is life beyond engineering and that I can contribute meaningfully without relying on Outlook, Microsoft Teams, and similar tools.

It would be nice to find a team with such conditions for my mental well-being. These are matters I need to consider in my future positions.

I've been with this job for nearly 1.5 years, and I'm starting to experience signs of burnout. Yesterday, I felt like I was going to reach my breaking point. As I rode my motorbike back home, thoughts of quitting filled my mind... Nevertheless, this job is slowly draining the essence of my being.

September 2023 Update

...

I've been working in this job for 1 year and 6 months now. The contract is expected to end between December 2023 and June 2024. I haven't decided what I'll do afterwards, but I might spend some time working at the library while I look for another short-term contract.

Full of doubts today, heart racing fast. It's summer, and most people are on holiday. I'm still at work and I feel lonely here. I don't want to be here, taking this job too seriously, as if my life depended on it. I know it's a stupid job, but I have the feeling that I won't find something better. I'm not that young anymore. I've seen many engineers who've struggled to find a new job. Interviews are quite draining. How on earth am I going to reach the ~320k I need to retire?

Shifting gears, this week I received an email from the library offering me a three-month job with the option to choose between working 12.5 to 37 hours per week. I’m tempted to leave my engineering job, which feels like a nightmare for my brain, for a more serene environment... The salary at the library is 1700 EUR/month, not too different from my engineering job, but it comes with a significant reduction in problems and mental strain.

In my opinion, you ought to take the contract and seek another library contract for once the 3-month one ends and quit engineering. The difference in monthly salary is low ($1,900 vs $1,700 if I read correctly). The difference is easily made up if you can actually sustain the job as a librarian rather than having to quit every few years due to severe burn out. Really. It's your money or your life. A serene job at the library may even free your mind, emotional energy, and time enough that you can start on the company you might want to build.

I understand the loss of status since I've gone through the same, but it really is worth it. Those moments when you are reminded of your loss of status are few and far between compared to the moments where you are content and non-burned out.

Given the quotes above about how horrible being an engineer is for you, seeking another path seems like a good idea. Quitting before burn out will make a transition much easier than waiting until you're past your breaking point as you have in the past!

[okumurahata]

@mathiverse, thanks for the analysis. It’s a good litmus test for my current situation. Sure, the best thing I should do is quit and gain some perspective. Okumurahata at 25 years old would have done that yesterday. The problem is, I envision myself older at 32, and I’m genuinely afraid my technical skills are deteriorating (which they probably are to some extent at the moment). I worry about not being able to return to the tech field if I need to, which I likely will if the library contracts don’t offer continuity. The thing is that I require long breaks between contracts because I tend to burn out severely when working as an engineer. I take the work too seriously, and it ends up affecting my mental health.

On the flip side, when I’m working, all I desire is to do anything that isn’t related to work: reading Hacker News, browsing this forum, delving into interesting PDFs, checking out stocks, economic reports, etc. It’s like I have a strong aversion to the corporate world, but I can’t see any better alternatives to escape it than from the inside (plus ERE). I also believe that if I can’t handle something as straightforward as a 9-5 job, how on earth would I manage to run a company?

I feel trapped, but my family and girlfriend are content because Okomurahata has a good job with a decent salary for my country. Then again, working at the library might be unstable, and now my girlfriend doesn’t have a job.

Finally, I see other people doing incredibly demanding jobs, like my mum at the hospital, and I feel like a privileged kid for simply typing things on a keyboard.

Anyway, @mathiverse, I believe I should follow your advice, but I’m quite afraid about what might come next. I apologize for the contradictions, but I’m in a constant struggle with myself.

[shaz]

Would your tech skills deteriorate all that much if you took the library job for 3 months? At the end of the 3 months you would have a better idea if it is the job for you.

[AxelHeyst]

Your life expectancy is something like 82.33 years, which means you've got 50.33 years left, and you spend your days doing something that you describe as a nightmare. You are dying but you aren't alive. I empathize with your internal struggles, but you've got everything you need.

The door to your cage hangs open.

[okumurahata]

Thanks guys for the replies. I suppose I won't miss this job, and it will likely fade from memory a few months after I quit. That's been the pattern every time I've left a position in the past. However, there are two issues to consider.

Firstly, it won't be an option to return to it after my contract at the library ends. It was initially a temporary 9-month contract that they extended until the beginning/mid of 2024 (and probably they will extend it even more). I believe the management is pleased with my performance, as the reviews have been positive due to my ability to handle a substantial workload and collaborate effectively with various teams within the company.

Secondly, this job is the highest-paying one I could secure in Spain given my level of experience. To those abroad, 1900 EUR/month (net) may seem inadequate for an engineer, even for my peers, as 34k EUR/year (gross) is considered an average salary. However, my work history has irregularities with gaps between positions. While I have the technical capabilities, my CV suggests that I won't stay long at a particular company. Additionally, there are ego-related factors at play. My close family and partner are satisfied with my somewhat stable situation, even if they are aware that I'm not content while employed.

If I were to quit today and take a job at the library for three months, there's a good chance I might face a long period of unemployment again (delaying ERE). The interview process in the tech world, where I have better chances of securing a position, is incredibly draining and demoralizing. Rejections are frequent, and if you're unemployed, companies often offer suboptimal compensation packages. In resume, even if current contentment is low, I want to press the accelerator as much as I can. I have recurrent thoughts on, if I stayed at the first company for 6 years, now I would have double net worth or even more, I would be half way to ERE. But I’m only at 15% because I’m going back and forth. I want to be free to pursue my intellectual interests without depending on a third party. ERE seems to solve the issue.

I’m open for your opinions and tips, because maybe my thought process isn’t right and I’m not thinking clearly.

[zbigi]

@mathiverse, thanks for the analysis. It’s a good litmus test for my current situation. Sure, the best thing I should do is quit and gain some perspective. Okumurahata at 25 years old would have done that yesterday. The problem is, I envision myself older at 32, and I’m genuinely afraid my technical skills are deteriorating (which they probably are to some extent at the moment). I worry about not being able to return to the tech field if I need to, which I likely will if the library contracts don’t offer continuity. The thing is that I require long breaks between contracts because I tend to burn out severely when working as an engineer. I take the work too seriously, and it ends up affecting my mental health.

I am very similar. Also mostly worked engineering (programming and related) contracts, because the job was too intense for me and I needed long breaks between them to cure burnout. The one thing I did differently was taking contracts which paid a lot more, so I'm FI now at 42 yo. Can't you find anything in engineering that pays better?

[ertyu]

I also found myself in this position. The job I stayed in made me intensely miserable and insane (I started my journal while in a job I eventually got fired from and i sound like a screeching lunatic), but somehow I had to stay in it. Contract/work from home wasn't an option for me the way it is with those who have IT skills. You already have 3 parts of this down: you're fluent in english, you've got the skills, and you live in a LCOL country which will help keeping costs down as you save. I second zbigi: double down on finding contract/distance jobs.

[okumurahata]

Thanks @ertyu and @zbigi.

It seems that I do have three options:

1. Quit and work at the library: break free from the cage, much like I’ve done in the past. However, this choice comes with the consequence of uncertainty after three months and potential difficulties in finding a job later that pays my current salary.

2. Find a contracting job that pays better than my current salary: I’m not sure where to start, but I recognize that I’m not always great with people to the point where they might get the impression that I’m somewhat unintelligent. With time, they usually realize I’m not as clueless as they thought, but potential customers might get a wrong first impression of me, since I’m terrible presenting myself.

3. Continue in this job until the contract expires: keep pushing through, but eventually be naturally pushed into unemployment when the contract ends. It would be a situation where, for once, it wasn’t me taking the initiative to move on.

Considering these three options, which one would be most beneficial for okumurahata in the long run? The goal is to accelerate ERE while minimizing mental strain. Option 2 seems like it could work best, as I could take extended breaks if the hourly rate is high enough. For example, I could push myself for six months knowing that the next six months I could be unemployed but with expenses covered. That could be an optimal situation. But how does one start freelancing without references? I’m always curious about how people embark on this path…

Shifting focus, I won the case against Swiss Air, so I’ll be getting back ~600 EUR. I spent an entire weekend gathering documentation to prove the sketchiness of their policies. It seems the folks at Mastercard were convinced by the arguments I presented. I’m genuinely thrilled to be getting my money back; honestly, I had thought it might be lost.

[Chris]

In your current job, you're trading misery for money. Is there an amount of money that would make the misery worthwhile? If, as you say, you're near the top end of salary for your role, then your employer is unable to replace you at your current rate. That's a good position to be in. If you told them you're quitting tomorrow, what counteroffer would you accept to not quit?

I'm suggesting any specific action, but it's a good question to ask yourself from time to time.

[zbigi]

But how does one start freelancing without references? I’m always curious about how people embark on this path…

You don't need "freelancing", just plain old fixed-term contracts. You get them the same way you get a regular job - via applying in response to an advert (or, via a contact from a recruiter that knows you). The only difference is that contracts usually pay much more than jobs, in exchange for lack of benefits, lack of security (contractors can be easily fired) and the fixed-term nature of the job. All those things are big issues for "normies" but for people like me they were acceptable or even preferable to full time work, esp. if it meant doubling the money I'd be earning.

[ertyu]

You don't need "freelancing", just plain old fixed-term contracts. You get them the same way you get a regular job - via applying in response to an advert (or, via a contact from a recruiter that knows you). The only difference is that contracts usually pay much more than jobs, in exchange for lack of benefits, lack of security (contractors can be easily fired) and the fixed-term nature of the job. All those things are big issues for "normies" but for people like me they were acceptable or even preferable to full time work, esp. if it meant doubling the money I'd be earning.

Zbigi, it might help the guy if you dm-ed him with concrete websies/listings to look at; he's sounding v much like me when i was trapped in a miserable job -- job sucks so much out of you that you walk around kind of shell-shocked and find yourself overwhelmed and not knowing where to start when you have to take even the simplest steps out.

[okumurahata]

Write here to recalibrate. Went to breakfast with the infrastructure team. They are organizing some after-work events in November and asked if I wanted to participate. I said that okumurahata is strange and even if he appreciates his coworkers, he won’t go (politically correct statement). They insisted that I should come. They are also organizing a Christmas dinner, luckily I will be on holiday at that time. As a salaryman, do you think it’s odd that I don’t attend such events?