Early Retirement Extreme Forums

Hi there guys!
I am a 26 y.o. male, living in Italy, currently on a 9to5 job, and I'd like to fix a big problem which is finding a place where to live, in my city, since I really would like to leave parents house. (Leaving parents house in Italy it's usually done at 30/35. Which age in your country?)

Given this, I own those RE propertyes with my brothers; I'll explain in numbers and shapes:
Lot"a" = 1 house 80m2 + 1 attic --- (I own 33%, the rest my 2 brothers) --- Actual Value = 200k --- Actual Rent Revenue = 6k/y.
Lot"b" = 1 house 110m2 on 400m2 land + 700m2 land (can still build residential of 300m2) --- (I own 33%, the rest my 2 brothers) --- Actual Value = 250k+100k = 350k --- Actual Rent Revenue = No rent.

This is a very important point: Me and my 2 brothers have a bad social relationship.
Given this, I've thought those to be the options to solve the need to find a place to live:
1)
Project: We could build 3 residential houses on the 700m2 land of the Lot"b". This means "case a schiera" design, made of 3, 80m2 each. 1 for me, 2 for my brothers.
Total cost: 80sqm*1800€/sqm=€150.000 round. (I will need a 30y mortgage)

2)
Project: We could build 3 residential houses on the 700m2 land of the Lot"b". This means "case a schiera" design, made of 3, 80m2 each. 1 for me, 2 for my brothers. In this case, I would keep 50sqm for me, and 30sqm to make a studio apt with bathroom in order to do short term rent (plenty of tourists in my city which also have airport+port).
Total cost: 80sqm*1800€/sqm=€150.000 round. (I will need a 30y mortgage, but in this case I am also be able to get some income from the building.)

3a)
Project: Sell everything to my brothers for "x" amount of money (which should be around 100k), and look for a land where to build a house.
Total cost: (500sqmLand*100€/sqm)+(80sqmHouse*1800€/sqm)-(soldLandMoney)=(50.000)+(150.000)-(100.000)=€100.000 (I will need a 20y mortgage. I could replicate the renting scheme done on 1st point and able to get some income from the building.)

3b)
Project: Sell everything to my brothers for "x" amount of money (which should be around 100k), and look for an existing second hand house.
Total cost: (80sqmHouse*1800€/sqm)+(80sqmHouseRenovation*600€/sqm)-(soldLandMoney)=(150.000)+(50.000)-(100.000)=€100.000 (I will need a 20y mortgage. I could replicate the renting scheme done on 1st point and able to get some income from the building.)

This is just what it comes to my mind, I'm sure there could be more options.
And point 1st seems to be really difficult for me to put in practice, give the bad social relationship we 3 brothers have.

Rather than asking yet another variation of the same question for the 4th or 5th time, you may get more traction if you were able to demonstrate some progress/lessons from the previous answers you've already received. We're happy to build on a learning curve, but restarting the same question over and over is not a good long term strategy. Eventually almost everyone will lose interest.

Previous threads about the same question. Also somehow in the course of the last few months you've been 28, 27, and, now, 26 years old.
viewtopic.php?t=12677
viewtopic.php?p=271918#p271918
viewtopic.php?p=273606#p273606

I'd suggest that you figure out how to ask the question in a different way so you can get different answers.

Since you are having trouble deciding which option is the best for yourself, maybe you should learn how to evaluate real estate investment opportunities? No one should be making this choice for you anyway since none of us have skin in the game. If you don't have enough knowledge to see the pros and cons of each option yourself, then you should learn more.

You could start with the book, "What Every Real Estate Investor Needs to Know About Cash Flow... And 36 Other Key Financial Measures" by Frank Gallinelli: https://www.amazon.com/Estate-Investor- ... 259586189/.

jacob wrote: ↑

Sun May 21, 2023 12:06 pm

Rather than asking yet another variation of the same question for the 4th or 5th time, you may get more traction if you were able to demonstrate some progress/lessons from the previous answers you've already received. We're happy to build on a learning curve, but restarting the same question over and over is not a good long term strategy. Eventually almost everyone will lose interest.

I'm sorry, I thought this could be the update to the things that are happening. What I've learnt trought the time, it's that for economic reasons, even family can change POV, because everyone think about it's own thing...

I think the most important thing for now it's to have a place where to live, away from the family. In order to do this, this means I need to get a debt, and so I'll sacrifice the freedom to be out of it.
On the other hand, I would have the place where I could live.
Economic side: I could rent a portion of it, then, I could also put the money stocks/bond to make sure to get 2/3% from it. This is how I would repay the 30y debt...
As I said above, this means I will be "chained" to this debt for 30y.

On the other hand, I could also still live here, being free to do what I'd like to but, who would be live with toxic brothers?

You do realise that you've already answered your question yourself, right? You don't want to be around your brothers, so start by selling. Then take your time to find good answers to your questions about investing in real estate.

The shifting age thing is curious.
I do second loutfard suggestion to sell: if you don’t get along with person X, would you want them to be your 365 days a year neighbors?

Hi there
I'm near to 30y.o, I was in an LTR ended 3 years ago.
I would like to find a house for myself.
Mortgage rates and the cost of living have risen dramatically, while salaries are still the same. (I'm speaking to you from the perspective of a paid employee, and where I do live. Italy.).

My salary is average, i.e. 1400 euros per month net, and the cost of housing is currently impossible.

I was thinking about getting my own place, and I currently have 3 options:
1) Around 200k for a 70 square meter apartment in a condominium. In this case the mortgage is 180k, to be paid over 30 years, for a sum of around 700 euros per month.
2) About 250k to build a house on land I own. In this case the mortgage is 230k, to be paid over 30 years, for a sum of around 900 euros per month.
3) About 70k to renovate and split my parents' house. In this case the mortgage is 50k, to be paid over 10 years, for a sum of around 500 euros per month.*

*Option number 3 involves me giving up my share of land, and a future house as an inheritance to my brothers, in exchange for full ownership of the house I would be renovating. So, while in cases 1 and 2 I would find myself in the future with 2 inherited houses and land, to be divided into 3 with the brothers, in option 3, I will only have 1 house, but of my own.


I was also thinking about the time I would have to take to repay the mortgage... in fact... the general perspective was to stay in this country and live here, but the situation of an employee is currently really disadvantageous...
I thought that making the investment in an older house might result in a lower quality of life in the future, but having to pay a mortgage with a payment that is double the amount and triple the duration, maybe that would count as low quality of life too.
I just saw a friend of mine getting a 30y mortgage for his 350k apartment.
He has a small business and earn a net of 30k a year.
This still so damn high to pay for me...
I do not think it's a good investiment, but YMMV.

I feel like my head is a bit closed at the moment, so forgive me if I'm saying things that are leading me to make bad choices, but at the moment, this mentality doesn't allow me to judge moving to live in big cities in a positive way.
For example, I could relocate to NY, earn a lot, live a consumerist life, spend a lot, but always stay in rent...
At the moment what I would like to do is move out of my parents' house and have my own place to feel confident that I have a base to start from.
Once this is done, I can say that paying a mortgage, which amount for 1/3 of you salary for just 10 years, is nothing.
10 years fly by, and in these 10 years, I would have the freedom to dedicate myself to many things that I would like to do, such as social activities, various hobbies and learn new things, while exploring new jobs.

Instead, a 40-year mortgage, with a high repayment, would lock me into a career, a focused "job life", to satisfy what is a need of society, that is, to have a new, more beautiful, larger and more "mainstream" house, aligned with the times..

I still have to take a decision.
I'm lucky to have options.

Haven't you asked this question previously ? viewtopic.php?p=273935#p273935

Either way I don't think your income is high enough or you deposit is high enough for any of these options. But there is much cheaper property available in Italy.

chenda wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:31 pm

But there is much cheaper property available in Italy.

Is seems like you know about Italy. What do you mean?
Also, what is a safe bet salary to start thinking about a house, for Italy?

lillo9546 wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:22 pm

Is seems like you know about Italy. What do you mean?
Also, what is a safe bet salary to start thinking about a house, for Italy?

Over here, often given as an example of responsible non-ERE mortgage limits:
- over 20% own investment, plus transaction fees
- under 1/3 of net income monthly payment
- two salaries. Less risk for the bank, so better rates.

lillo9546 wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:22 pm

Is seems like you know about Italy. What do you mean?
Also, what is a safe bet salary to start thinking about a house, for Italy?

I don't know much about Italy but there is a vlogger I follow who bought a farmhouse in the mountains for < 50 000k iirc, somewhere in the north east I think.

https://youtu.be/qpVapWEDv-o?si=wS7UCSXfFvgO3nqK

But my advice would be to concentrate on boosting your income, ideally with something location independent. Or move somewhere where you can earn a higher salary because 1200k a month isn't going to get you anywhere fast. Build up cash savings and forget about investments for the time being. Then buy something for cash.

My atm income it's low/average, but I absolutely need to find a place for me.
The parents home would cost me a mortgage of 10 years, and would provide me to:
- Indipendence
- Have the time to study.
- Seeking new Job opportunities while keeping this job who pays the bills.
- Spend time on activities I enjoy
- Being more social

I cannot see why relocating else where wouldn't do the same, but I am honest, and I have fear to do it

You've been spinning your wheels in indecision for at least a year and two months now.

Why the procrastination? Fear? What's the worst that could happen?

Make a decision and spring into action!

You have the internets permission......live your best life.....even if that means sitting in your parents basement for the next two decades asking the same questions over and over again. Do they even have basements in Italy?

I say save up some money now to have a few thousand euros and rent a room in Lugano and find full time work there to save a lot for a property in italy soon.

Guys, thanks for putting the effort for helping me, but family situations are not always like "flash" "done".
We need meetings to make sure everyone is on track.

Btw, lately I've received an offer: I would leave my Real Estate part for 150k in exchange.

Now I wonder, what could I do with those 150k?

Why not dump the cash into the stock market?

lillo9546 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 21, 2024 11:33 am

Btw, lately I've received an offer: I would leave my Real Estate part for 150k in exchange.

Are there tax consequences for this? If so, are they different from the consequences of simply inheriting the property?

150k after taxes
I was thinking about getting a mortgage for a house.
I would split this house into two
One side I live is, the other side I rent.

I'll then put the rest of the money into ETF or index fund.

Does this sounds good?

lillo9546 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 21, 2024 2:23 pm

150k after taxes
I was thinking about getting a mortgage for a house.
I would split this house into two
One side I live is, the other side I rent.

I'll then put the rest of the money into ETF or index fund.

Does this sounds good?

Probably not really, but you do you. Let's look at a few parameters:
- age: 30
- relation ship status: single
- 70 m² apartment: 200k€
- net wage: 1400€/month
- cash: 150k€

With a wage as it is, buying the apartment you were speaking of goes from almost impossibly hard (12 years of all income) to affordable (3 years of all income).

Have you considered a slightly different scenario:
- rent a humble apartment. Perhaps 50 m² will do as a single person instead of 70 m² and be slightly cheaper?
- invest the cash
- concentrate on increasing income. A relatively low income is still the elephant in the room.

That way, you have a roof over your head and lots of flexibility at a fairly early stage in adult life. If the markets do well, you benefit. Serendipity. If a job opportunity pops up a bit further away, you can grab it. If a relationship interest pops up a bit further away, you can pursue it.