Low Income, Early 20s, Anti-Wage-Slave Living: Walwen's Journal

[Veronica]

Wow, this hits home with my experience almost right on the dot.

When I was in grad school, I was forced to adapt to an incredibly minimal existence. And that basically meant that I had to fill my hours with the most affordable hobby I could find: at that point in my life, it was work. If I just worked more, I wouldn't have the time to waste what little money I had.
And that meant that when I did finally buy something... it was directly related to my work. Just like your desire to buy spackle and etc.
I was doing a lot of programming, reading books and research papers, and working in the lab. So I bought a mechanical keyboard, a bookmark with a little LED light, and a little periodic table tumbler to put my coffee in. Those were the only things I bought during a 5 year period.
And my mom said I was living such a miserable life, and constantly asked me when I would be finished because that is no way to live.

When I did finally make my way to a "real job" (which was way less lucrative than anyone led me to believe it would be), I excitedly shared with my parents how much money I would be putting away into savings each month. I was so excited to start making up for lost time; instead, they pressured me to save less, because "we never saved that much, and we turned out just fine. You also need to live your life".

We try to avoid talking about it these days; if I bring up how proud I am that I'm saving 1k+/month, they will snidely bring up things that make me second guess myself like "well you can't take it with you." or "you never know, you could get cancer or have a heart attack and boom. All of that effort wasted."

[Walwen]

People who say "Why save if you could have a heart attack and die?" are living in glass houses and can't take what they dish out.

At the end of the day their plan is to have no plan and then die. So many people my age simply say "I just want to die suddenly at 39" or "I'm never going to retire/grow old." What are you gonna do if you don't instantly perish before 40? Which do you think is most likely?

"I could have a heart attack and die, so I can just make the minimum monthly payments on my debts!"
-low credit score prevents from getting a good car, good house, because can't afford it
-stresses about money for years of life
-paid 30% more than you do for the same thing because of interest and fees

If there was one word to describe my mom's life it's "overwhelmed." And depressed.

There was another lady, I think it was "millennial money", and she had like 100k in student loans that she was basically ignoring, while spending money nonstop. She had a boyfriend/sugar daddy, who bought all her clothes and food and she lived with. She said "I just want people to know that even if they have bad student loan debt, they can still live a good life!" She looked like a hostage and Lord forbid she want to break up with that man or he decides to stop bankrolling her.

Those types of people, when things happen- they just go, "Why me?" like it was some sort of unpredictable random event that their car broke down, a storm damaged their house, they need 10k upfront for IVF to start a family, they want 40k to go back to school, or 200k to buy a house.... Individually, of course you can't say when these things will happen, but come on! Something is always going to happen.

Right now my grandfather's girlfriend (long story lol) is trying to build her lifelong dream house.... but guess what? She doesn't have the money. She thought she did, but really hadn't realized how bad inflation and the housing market have gotten in the last, oh, 15 years. Who wants to give a giant loan to a 78 year old woman? Every bank has laughed in her face and she is devastated. She's had this house planned for 40 years, but saved only a pittance.

There's a stoic metaphor: Life is like being chained to a pack of running wild dogs. Either you run with them, or you are dragged.

There's also an Aesop, of The Wolf and The Dog.

The Wolf lives on a meager diet, and sees a fat dog, who never seems to lack what he wants. He asks The Dog about it.
The Dog says, oh, I have a kind master, and it's simple work. I just sit at his feet and bark at intruders, and in exchange, he lets me live with him and feeds me all the best foods. You can come with me, and I'm sure my master will let you in, too.

And The Wolf says, "Sounds great, but first, what's that thing around your neck?"
"Oh," the Dog says, "That's my collar: my master keeps me chained."
And The Wolf says, "Nevermind," and leaves.
https://fablesofaesop.com/the-dog-and-the-wolf.html

[Walwen]

I've made a pretty penny this year by card churning and rewards, and I haven't spent a cent on interest nor fees and have no cards with annual fees or anything. I don't think I'll do this forever but I actually do want to have a few cards open with different places now in the start of my financial journey. My mom has a shitty card with fees out the ass, but she won't cancel it because it's her oldest card by many years.

If you hate reading fine print, it's not a good hobby, but I do, so I do it.

Less than a year ago my credit was a pretty thin file and started off in the early 600s, now my FICO is 720. I feel a lot of satisfaction over this, it just makes me feel like I'm out ahead and I think about the potential savings when if I'm eventually getting a car or home loan. I want to be that crazy sonnavuh with the credit score in the 800s, in a few years time.

I could pay a rental deposit with the amount of reward money I've churned. I don't really earmark money like that though.

I really need to sit down and do a bunch of math now that my income is higher, to figure out where I can get within the year.
Everyone jokes that I must moonlight at the store next door to my workplace because of how much I work, but I unironically just literally enjoy working. Not in some sort of "stressed anxious addict" way but in a "weee I'm excited to see what's up today" way. Why is it so stigmatized to actually enjoy your job and life? I guess not everyone has literal plans to go live in the woods on the horizon. My life is going to change massively, so I'm savoring this period of time.

My mom still thinks I scrub toilets and wash dishes all day and am bossed around all day, and thinks pretty lowly of my general life aspirations. She thinks opening a credit card is about on par with spending 500 on scratch offs. It kinda hurts my feelings but I'm finally getting old enough to disregard her although it's still unfortunate.

Medically I've just given up again and I'm kinda planning to stay that way, it's just too much to get into and I don't have the support I'd need to get treatment really. But I'm just so over it: pain might be inevitable but suffering isn't. I know I really scare or just confuse people sometimes who can't get the duality of being really messed up but also high-functioning. It's not an analogy I like to use often because I don't want to look like a goober- but the closest media representation/tropes I've found are in veterans. The trope of the guy who doesn't have ptsd or anything but is just different. I haven't read Lord of The Rings but I've heard it's like that with people that handled the ring, they're just different people who can't return to the world that was there before. I think it'll get better with age, I really do, because things happen to everyone and time is a great equalizer.

I definitely have a thing that I like chaos because I stand out in it as someone who doesn't falter.
It's kinda like other people are residential vacuum cleaners, and I'm an industrial shop vac. Everyone else is handy and stylish and approachable, and I look like a menace to society with arcane controls and a burden to lug around. People see me handle little messes without the typical complaints and it's a novelty: but give me a shot at the big shit and that's when it makes sense why I am how I am.
......what a horrible analogy. I like it though.

Pro tip:
Gardetto snack mix (the ones with the brown thick chips) is typically the best option to buy in vending machines or gas stations to get the most snack-age and calories for your money.

[Veronica]

I know I really scare or just confuse people sometimes who can't get the duality of being really messed up but also high-functioning. It's not an analogy I like to use often because I don't want to look like a goober- but the closest media representation/tropes I've found are in veterans. The trope of the guy who doesn't have ptsd or anything but is just different. I haven't read Lord of The Rings but I've heard it's like that with people that handled the ring, they're just different people who can't return to the world that was there before. I think it'll get better with age, I really do, because things happen to everyone and time is a great equalizer.

Scientifically speaking, yes. General Life satisfaction hits an all time low in the mid 20s, and only gets better with age. So the science would suggest staying the course.

I also empathize with your "high functioning, but fucked up" assessment of myself. It's almost as if every now and then, you look around at the people around you and you think "are these people even alive? Have they even thought a thought as grand as the ones I have while I'm sitting on the toilet on a tuesday afternoon? Have they ever dared to dream anything bigger than this cookie cutter life they are currently engaged in?"

Trust me, it's the angst of the 20s. Especially when you have these grand ideas about saving the world, and you're bursting at the seams with ideas on how you would do it if they would just trust you for 20 minutes and let you do it.
My advice is distilled below; but I'm only slightly in front of you age-wise so perhaps others will have more battle-tested advice.
---
Ideas are cheap. Execution is where value is found. 100 ideas for a billion dollar company are worth exactly zero if they're just ideas in your head and you die in a car accident.

It's ok to just save yourself. You might want to save the world, but sometimes that requires the cooperation of other people outside yourself. Unless you're a charismatic leader who is willing to go the distance rallying the troops for your cause, saving the world may not be an option. And even if you are, you might only get one shot, and one cause. It's a seldom few that get to lead a world-changing movement more than once.

You might feel as if you're "not of this world" anymore; that's just a reflection of someone who is searching for their own meaning instead of accepting the one that society offers as a default. Lean into this feeling; when you find your way, the world will feel right again. You just haven't yet stumbled into that perfect intersection between what society wants and what you have to offer that also aligns with your personal views about what's important.
You'll find what society wants, what you have to offer it, and what you find important only through trial and error. And the satisfaction of making it across to the other side of that process is an internal peace that few can understand.

[Walwen]

Nah, I don't want to save the world, and I don't want the reins on anything, and the people older than me know more. And everyone has their challenges.

When I say "high functioning but also fucked up" I mean medically. Like when I tell people (like social workers) more exactly what my symptoms are, they tell me I should quit my job and go on disability, or be institutionalized- and they definitely do not take my goals of independence seriously. I am not talking "they implied it subtly", I am talking they bring out the intake papers to a group home. Talking to my old boss was definitely a massive mistake and I plan to never ever reveal any of my conditions to my current workplace. People trust me way less when they know, even though I'm the same person.

I think more seriously lately about going on a medical sabbatical of sorts, in the medium-term future.
Next year, my friend travels to visit me.
Then, I travel to my other friend's land for about two months.
Then, I enlist, and the entire process and contract might be anywhere from 3 to 6 years. (Two year contracts are a thing now because recruiting is so bad.) Ignoring the ready reserve, this will be the start of my next stage of life.
So I'd be 24-27ish, mostly depending on how long my contract is, and of course that all depends on if I can enlist.

Then the sabbatical would take about a year, I think.
Then, I could go use military benefits to go back to college, or in general go do whatever else with my life.

Cost of sabbatical depends mostly on where I would live, and if I would work/earn income at all.
I can't really say this will happen, I can't say anything I plan 5 years out will really happen, but I guess not having a plan is more painful to me mentally than making tentative plans. I'm of the opinion that if you want something like this to happen, the earlier you think about it, the better. It's yet another reason to save save save.

I wonder about dividend income, like the people who just hold a bunch of SCHD or JEPI. I know you could just buy and sell other stock to the same effect, but there's a major psychological benefit to just getting that dividend income without buying or selling. Right now I make like 3 bucks a month or something off random dividends from VOO and so on, but it's all within my Roth. If I start dumping money into a normal investment account, in 5ish years time, how much dividend income could I have? And would this make sense to do at all? It's one of those questions I don't know enough to answer. From doing some random googling and using some random calculator, I would need like 12k to get like 100 bucks a month on average.

From a rough calculator:
If every year, for 5 years, I put 2,500 into SCHD, with dividend reinvestment (DRIP):
I would end with about 14,000, about 170.5 shares.
Then, using the predicted higher stock price 5 years from now, with that 170.5 shares and no longer reinvesting dividends or contributing that 2500, I would make.... about 500 in dividend income per year. Or about 40 bucks a month.

And I don't even know how this would be taxed. 5 years is very very short timescale to think about passive income from investments. But even 40 bucks a month isn't something to be written off: that'll pay my phone bill. Outside of rent, I could easily live on 8k for everything else I'd need, so 500 dollars would be 1/16th. But how does it compare to just dumping it in VOO or something, and selling 500 dollars of VOO when the time comes? I don't know.

[Chris]

I wonder about dividend income, like the people who just hold a bunch of SCHD or JEPI. I know you could just buy and sell other stock to the same effect, but there's a major psychological benefit to just getting that dividend income without buying or selling.
[...]
But how does it compare to just dumping it in VOO or something, and selling 500 dollars of VOO when the time comes? I don't know.

The prime argument against relying on dividends is less control over taxes. The board of directors decides when a dividend is paid, and thereby decides when you have income. In the non-dividend scenario, you trigger the taxable event through selling the stock.

For a single filer with total taxable income above ~$40k, your federal tax rate on qualified dividends is 15%. So every time the company decides to pay out a dividend, you get the dividend less the 15% you pay in tax. Theoretically, if the company held on to that cash and successfully reinvested in the business, the company would enjoy high stock price appreciation. In other words, they'd be growing your investment through internal compounding.

That's the idea. Does it happen? Sometimes. It depends a lot on the business.

But you're right about the psychological benefits of the dividend income stream. Assuming the board of directors is competent, they should know when the company has excess cash. If you instead need to sell stock to generate income, you'll likely be second guessing yourself every time you put in a sell order.

Note that this mostly matters before RE... if you have an ERE budget, your income will likely be <$40k, which means that your qualified dividends (and long-term capital gains) will be taxed at 0%.

Also note that the 15%/0% rates are for qualified dividends only... not all stock dividends are qualified. You mentioned JEPI, whose dividends are only partly qualified.

[Walwen]

Hello everyone! I got very very busy all of a sudden. There was a mass exodus at my job, a bunch of people walked out. It put me in a very good position for rapid advancement.

I was literally scrubbing toilets mere months ago- now I'm the lead cook.
I was literally the lowest paid employee in the building. I saw some internal paperwork left in the open on someone's desk-
They pay me the rate of someone with 10 years experience and 10 years ago I was in elementary school. From lowest to highest in my department.

Everyone who stuck around had the chance to move up, but I'm the only person who took it. Everyone else has their reasons- mostly that they believe they are too dumb to have the responsibility of cooking, and/or don't want the stress/ have too much else going on in their lives. I don't blame any of them, because it's been crazy and I'm basically at the legal limit of how much I can work.

I've been working 60-80hrs a week since October and I usually only get one day off in 7, the legal minimum in my area.

Fun fun fun times- and good money.

[ertyu]

Save well, my friend

[delay]

Congratulations on your advancement! Good to read you're having fun. Why was there a mass exodus?

[frugaldoc]

While I have not read every word of your journal, there were some thoughts that came to mind after a cursory reading. Actually, they were screaming inside my brain. And I while what I am about to say may sound judgmental and discouraging it is really intended to save you heartache down the road.

Do not join the National Guard!

Now, this isn't coming from an active-duty member's bias against Guard/Reserve types. It is just from years of experience dealing with people that had problems (physical/mental health) before joining and either lied about it or downplayed it to their recruiter/MEPS. When placed in high stress environments, these people tend to become the "sick call commandos" or "sad pandas". And don't think just because you are a religious affairs specialist or work in health care you might not end up in a stressful environment. You could be activated and deployed to Saudia Arabia or some other place and be running for cover under the weight of your flak/Kevlar as a Houthi UAV is incoming.

I want to be a religious affairs specialist or in HR or healthcare. The military really isn't all GI macho man bullshit. The nerds won, you know."

I need to disabuse you of your thoughts on the nature of the military: even as support staff your ultimate job is support and increase the lethality of the operational force. I am a physician (who has a duty to care) but know my job is to maintain the fighting capability of the Marines and Sailors under my care. That is even the Chaplain's job. Heck I even carry a rifle/pistol at times. When I cross paths with a Marine they will say "Rah, sir". And do you know what the appropriate response to that is? "Kill!"

But the good news is that you have other goals. Homesteading sounds like a wonderful plan and something you might be able to start with limited capital. I can't wait to buy some land and homestead. You get to start it much me earlier than me. And it sounds like you are advancing in your job. May I suggest the works of Cal Newport as a guide to develop your career capital.

Again, I am not trying to be judgmental or squash your dreams. After 15 years of active duty, I just know how this plays out 99% of the time.

[Walwen]

Well.... I take all the advice I can get at this stage of life, I guess.

Things move very fast for me: I can't believe how long it's been since I posted last! I moved my computer one day to make room for a project, and simply didn't find a reason to turn it back on, especially with how much my mobile phone does for me anyways.

I forget what job I had when I last checked in here. I was a janitor, I was a dishwasher/server, and now I am a fulltime cook. Over the Easter season, I was the bunny at the mall: it paid better than my real job!

My health has improved greatly, especially after I was able to take a 10 day vacation and really address some medical issues. I rented a cabin in the woods for a few days and spent my time hiking to waterfalls and thinking about life. I only actually took 4 days off, because I have 3 day weekends. I basically told my job it was this, or me quitting, as they had been working me illegally and everyone knew it. Everything has gone in my favor since, as they suffered miserably and my boss and some other people were fired/quit/etc in the mere 10 days Walwen didn't work. Everyone was happy to see me. I wish I said more of a goodbye to my coworkers before I left, instead of being as joking as I was. I really told them, "I bet you people cannot make it until I get back without someone quitting." I am pretty sure my last words to my coworker, who quit five days into my absence, were, "Hey, try not to quit while I'm gone!" Annnnnd now I'm not likely to see her again.

My case with the labor board is going well but I don't want to talk about it until there's a conclusion. The funny thing is that no one knows it was me, they all think it was a disgruntled fired employee who made the complaint, so I have been hearing gossip about it that I REALLY shouldn't have been told.

Money just seems to come naturally to me. It's actually not natural at all and I've spent likely hundreds of hours reading things, watching things, absorbing things. But the end result is that my bank account numbers go up.

I get pretty frustrated when I try to talk about money to my young coworkers. I have trained three kitchen staff now, that are all about my exact age, and for them too this is their first or second "real job." So I talk about if they know what 401(k)s and IRAs are, and how the employer match works. At my workplace it's a 100% match for the first 3%, and then 50% for another 2%. I tell them it's really worth it, because they don't have any living expenses really, and if you have that 5% skimmed off the top since you start the job, they're never even going to notice it, but it adds up.
And universally, they just say nope. They're not going to sign up for it or save any money whatsoever. Not just for retirement: in general. The most they've ever "saved money" in their entire lives is earmarking a few hundred dollars out of the paycheck on the 1st so that they'll have extra pocket money when they go to that concert on the 12th.

I talked to my same-age coworker about how I made an extra 700 dollars in two weeks from working some overtime. He asked me automatically what I spent it on. I told him I saved it. He said, oh, so you're going to buy something big? Like a gun? Like a car? I told him I save a lot of money. He said, oh you're a dreamer, you want a REALLY nice car and you want a mansion on the beach someday? We've had a few pretty interesting discussions about money: he is so obsessed with money he sincerely signs his name with a dollar sign after it "so people know what he's about." It's just a really different culture.

I still am planning on going to stay on my friend's land for some time, but things have become a little more complicated as it seems nearly certain that he is going to deploy due to not-to-be-named current political situations. We talk most days.

My grandfather is also in pretty bad health and is having a few more operations this year, but I've decided that I can't put any of my life decisions on hold due to his health, because he might die tomorrow, or he might live another 5 years.

Right now, the aim of the game is just making the money numbers go up. The more money I have sitting in my accounts, the comfier I will feel about not working for a few months. I also just want experiences and to improve myself in various ways.

I don't really budget that much, at least not like you'd think it would work. I just.... don't spend money. Besides when I do spend money, of course.
I have my phone bill, internet bill, and some medical stuff on autopay. I know how much it all is.
I set an arbitrary amount of money that I try to spend on food, but I always go under it.
And once per week I go to a hobby club: I usually blow 50 dollars on food or items throughout the night for me and my buddies, sometimes more, sometimes nothing.
Sometimes I buy things because I want or need them. It's just so rare, I don't know what to tell you: it's hard to budget that type of stuff.
Just.... "not spending money" is working more than well enough. I save about 70% of my income, last I estimated, although I did dip into my savings for my vacation.


Here is a story I think you guys will find entertaining.

I was the Easter bunny at the mall this season on top of my other job. When I started, I owned just two pairs of pants, and unfortunately both had torn holes. I had one pair of shoes, and they also had torn holes. I also only had one pair of socks, which I had been dutifully washing by hand each night. On my break I would walk around the mall and window-shop, but it's really daunting for me to spend money. I knew I needed clothes, but I couldn't bring myself to spend so much money at once.

So on my break, on the first day, I bought a pair of pants.
On the second day, I bought a new pair of shoes.
On the third day, I bought some socks.

I told my boss, "Man, I hate shopping!" after coming back from the clothing store in the mall. And she looked at me and said, "Really??? But you go shopping every day!"

[ertyu]

If your friend deploys, will you stay with your grandfather or would you stay on his property and keep watch over it?

[Egg]

When placed in high stress environments, these people tend to become the "sick call commandos" or "sad pandas".
...
When I cross paths with a Marine they will say "Rah, sir". And do you know what the appropriate response to that is? "Kill!"

Can broadly confirm. As a relatively moody/angsty guy in my 20s I spent the best part of 5 years as an officer in the navy. It wasn't a horrible experience and I always did my job to an acceptable level, but I was a square peg in a round hole. At the time I would have happily told you my job was either 'putting warheads on foreheads' (not especially common to be fair) or some other blasé allusion to lethal intent, somewhat echoing frugaldoc's comments about the ultimate nature of the military machine. I think the Americans have a slightly different relationship with the military that may change the vibe (e.g. more obvious college benefits that maybe mean a wider range of personalities consider enlisting). Nevertheless, I second the note of caution. The military fucks up incredibly mentally stable people. If that's not you, you're doubly playing with fire imho.

Just catching up with your journal though. Interesting read - thanks for sharing

[Walwen]

Well- plans change and change....

Things were getting quite serious about me leaving to his land, and I was close to booking the tickets. So my friend called my grandfather for his blessing for me to leave. My family knows him and it's not uncommon for them to talk over serious situations like this- I can't overstate how much of an older brother he's been in my life.

My grandfather did, actually, give his blessing, and said it was my decision to leave.
My friend called me and told me "He's wrong. It's actually MY decision if you are in a position to leave your family to live on my land. And you are NOT. You need to stay home and take care of your grandfather."



Recently, my coworker's husband died from cancer. She simply went home and he had died. I had a strongly neutral reaction, where I just felt no feelings about it at all, until I came home from work the other day. As I walked up the driveway, I was struck with such panic that I, too, was going to come home and just find my grandfather dead.

Sometimes my so-called "maturity" is very painful, as I am highly aware that I will have a patriarch sort of role after my grandfather dies. My mother will be coming to ME saying "What do I do?" and I do not have the luxury of the inverse. No one will help me with any sort of arrangements or paperwork. He has decades of work that should be archived properly, but I know if I don't do it, someone will just put it in garbage bags. No one will take any stress off my shoulders, and it is more than likely that my mother will demand I help her out.

I just mostly think, "I am not done being a kid. I am not done being the young person. I am not done being the person who needs help and mentorship." And so I think it will be a big blow when my grandfather dies, because there will be no one left that I'm close to who treats me like a child. I won't be anyone's son anymore. I'm not my mother's son, I'm emotionally her ex-husband. And my father isn't in my life, and I have no extended family really- no one that would even recognize me.

It ties in pretty well to the title of this thread: Low Income, Early 20s, Anti-Wage-Slave living. At least to me.... that means being a "kid!" I might be mature or whatever but I am not ready to "grow up." Even when I was little, I remember crying to my mother that I did not want to "Become an adult and sit in an office for the rest of my life." For what? To get money to spend money to get fat and get sick and die? Is that what life is all about?


If I can't go out to my friend's land until my grandfather dies, what then? Well my friend is actually more than generous and still very serious about mentoring me. Instead of me going to his land, he wants to come to visit me and my family. It can't be for nearly as long obviously. And now it's a whole new thing to work out and plan. But that's the new plan.


I'm so confused budgeting wise- it's really hard to find any sort of actual numbers online that make sense for my own situation. I have seemingly extremely low maintenance costs, but also it seems pretty obvious that I'm disorderly neglectful in how miserly I am. But am I really?

For instance, I really enjoy drinking these canned V8 coffees. They don't upset my stomach like coffee or black tea or Redbull, but it really is just 45 cal of mostly sweet potato juice, green tea extract for caffeine, and some B vitamins. I like to drink one every day in the morning to get something in my stomach since I wake up around 4AM but don't eat breakfast until the breakfast service is finished at 9AM and I stand like a dog over the trashcan eating the scraps, like a true cook. You can only buy them by the pack, so I bought a case of 4 6-packs online, during a sale.

But I feel so guilty- why am I spending money on sugar, caffeine, and the vague notion of vegetables? Why can't I drink just water?

I often do fantasize about being like an aesthetic monk or something. Not to that sort of extreme. But I wish I had a very unprocessed and unambiguous life. Grocery stores are extremely overwhelming, and so are most restaurants. You go to the grocery store and there's 50 brands of chips, and half of them aren't even made from sliced potatoes, and the flavors aren't even real things. Why can't I just eat rice, chicken, steamed vegetables, and drink milk and water? Why do I enjoy a soda? Why do I enjoy honey mustard doublecrunch Ruffles? Why is my favorite meal still a Burger King chicken nugget meal? What am I doing?

I wish there was some sort of definitive formula of, "You can spend this much money on yourself." But I'm sure that requires very specific goals.
I am just at the start of my career- it is obvious that I won't really save the majority of my money from my stupid entry-level job. So what's the difference between saving 70 percent and saving 90 percent of my income? How much money am I supposed to spend on myself? How do I figure out what's a reasonable lifestyle cost?

When I was working as the Easter bunny, I spent quite a lot of money- for me. I bought my lunch and things like that. And the thing is- it just did WONDERS for my mood. I felt so guilty and wound up about it: Why am I not happy with a "free" and more miserly lifestyle? For example, it costs pennies on the dollar to print proxy copies of trading cards. Trading cards, at the end of the day, are just words on a piece of paper, and I could even make them by hand. But when I bought my deck of MTG cards, which was about 275 dollars, it gave me such joy to own the thing, with real cards. And of course, a real nice box to keep them safely in. Why do I spend money? I could use an old cardboard box, and make the cards myself.

I am saving money like an absolute lunatic, but it's still such a small sum because my wages are so low. Maybe the lifestyle cut is worth it to save an extra 5k per month if you have a big salary. But is it really worth it if you're down to the point of arguing about spending 15 dollars a week on breakfasts? I am too skinny and so on. It really, really seems like most of my issues actually can be solved or greatly improved by just.... spending money?

[ertyu]

My grandfather did, actually, give his blessing, and said it was my decision to leave.
My friend called me and told me "He's wrong. It's actually MY decision if you are in a position to leave your family to live on my land. And you are NOT. You need to stay home and take care of your grandfather."

To me, this sounds like your grandfather must be keeping strong in front of you and not wanting to stop you/hold you back in life, but your friend heard his anxieties about dying and the end of life that your grandfather might've been freer to let show around him but not necessarily around you. Sounds like your grandfather needs you even if he won't explicitly go out and say so precisely because he wants you to enjoy "being the kid" for a while longer. At the right time, he might appreciate a reassurance that you've got him and you're not going anywhere. He might also appreciate seeing you begin to archive (?) or otherwise take care of the work you mentioned might be thrown away. I think it will mean a lot to him to know that it's valued and it'll be preserved if not taken over.

The 70% vs 90% of income distinction matters more the sooner you'd like to be independent of paid employment (even if you don't necessarily want to stop working). See this post, with tables. Reducing the % of your income you can live on is how you speed up the time to FI. Do you need to speed up the time to FI? Consider disability, time to grandpa's death/day when you can move to your friend's property, etc. Is it achievable for you to aim for financial independence by the time your grandpa is dead? Because that sounds like a good cut-off point to me.

Which brings me to: one day, you will indeed come home, pull up in the driveway, and find your grandpa dead. The time when you'll have to stop "being the kid" and take over his care is likely to come even sooner. I'm reading the book Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach right now. It was mentioned in another forumite's journal and I had read it before, but re-reading it has been just as useful. It's a book which is differently useful at different stages of life, and it sounds like it might be useful to you when it comes to facing the inner work of what's to come. Good luck and stay strong. When the time comes, may your grandpa pass in peace.

[Scott 2]

It really, really seems like most of my issues actually can be solved or greatly improved by just.... spending money?

Try it. Allocate a budget to spend $XX(X?) more per week / month. Hold yourself accountable to reaching it. See if life's better. This removes the uncertainty around can/should I afford X? The question becomes - how do I best allocate the resources I already committed to spending? In 3 months, use that experience to inform whether you want that number to be XX, 2 XX or even 1/2 XX.

Once you have some savings, your consumption is no longer dependent upon your income. Decouple the two and optimize for quality of life.

It is also normal to regress skills during trying times. Something has to relieve the pressure. Given what you've described at home, even IF spending less is preferred long term, it might be the wrong answer now. Better to save a little less, than some other, more detrimental regression.

An easy mistake, is assuming you'll always be able to do Y. It's not true. Life moves in phases. You're undergoing one of those transitions now. Some paths close forever. If spending a little gives access to one of those closing paths, it's likely a sound investment.

[AxelHeyst]

I +1 Scott's advice, there is a lot of power in taking an experimental attitude towards these things. Try different things for a set amount of time (I like a month for most lifestyle experiments), and then reflect. It can be very scary to do, or not do, something 'permanently'. What if we fail? What if we're wrong? What if we made the wrong choice? Then we'd have to beat ourselves up even harder.

So many things are not possible to know without just trying them out. You can always go back to what you were doing before. The identify of someone who is flexible enough to gather information about themselves and their relationship with the world via experiments will help take the pressure off of learning how you want to run your life, and bring you clarity and confidence in your choices sooner.

[thef0x]

I +1 Scott's advice, there is a lot of power in taking an experimental attitude towards these things. Try different things for a set amount of time (I like a month for most lifestyle experiments), and then reflect. It can be very scary to do, or not do, something 'permanently'. What if we fail? What if we're wrong? What if we made the wrong choice? Then we'd have to beat ourselves up even harder.

Such good advice from everyone here and for "operating questions" on this (borrowing from Tim Ferriss), I really like to write this out in three columns:

Col 1: What Change Do I Want To Try?

Col 2: What Is The Worst Possible Outcome?

Col 3: How Can I Mitigate / Downside-protect / Recover From That Worst-Case Outcome?

As a person who tends to be anxious instead of depressed (forward looking vs backward looking), this exercise has really helped me understand how little I have to lose with most lifestyle experiments.

Echoing Axel's message, really try to experience/notice the change as a temporary / time-limited one. You're not getting a tattoo, you're trying something new for 30 days.

Maybe that 30 day trial is more expensive per day/unit than a 365 day trial; structurally, that makes sense -- you need to prove to yourself that it's worth doing even at a higher cost at first to ensure you're feeling good about implementing a longer-term approach at a lower unit cost. This is why "renting X" is often a great idea (e.g. sports gear, musical instruments, tools, a specific car, etc).

Adding slack to the system for "micro experiments / lifestyle trials" does mean increasing spending but it also means building a more robust, meaningful life (quantified as happiness).

And you might find that by enhancing life in a certain category of consumption, other categories of consumption just go away, e.g. joining a $15/month planet fitness gym ends up saving you -$50 a month in junk food, adds +$5 in gas spending, and subtracts -$100/year in ongoing health expenses.

^^ this is the bigger take away re systems-thinking for me from ERE. Very few levers in life are isolated from each other, and as we pull and push on one, others adjust; the more you can grok those relationships/interconnections, the better you can be at predicting the positive/negative downstream implications of these lifestyle changes. And part of groking them is trying/trialing them.

If money becomes like water at a certain point in FIRE/ERE, then it's great to have on hand when there is a fire. Sometimes the right/necessary approach to a solution is to open the fire hydrant and blast because you need to save the house (happiness, relationships, health, stress, assets other than money).

[delay]

Sometimes my so-called "maturity" is very painful, as I am highly aware that I will have a patriarch sort of role after my grandfather dies. My mother will be coming to ME saying "What do I do?" and I do not have the luxury of the inverse. No one will help me with any sort of arrangements or paperwork. He has decades of work that should be archived properly, but I know if I don't do it, someone will just put it in garbage bags. No one will take any stress off my shoulders, and it is more than likely that my mother will demand I help her out.

Caring for your family is a duty, and fulfilling a duty gives you joy.

Why is my favorite meal still a Burger King chicken nugget meal? What am I doing?

That's quite common. The food itself is of low quality. The advertisements program your brain, so you link the image of a nugget meal with fun, warmth, closeness, friends, and other positives. Once you see it, it's not hard to leave behind.

How do I figure out what's a reasonable lifestyle cost?

Like other commenters suggested, experiment! Try a double or half spend month.

My other suggestion is not to stay in a place where you are unhappy. Start with small changes, but start today.