7 - interestingly no one closer than 400miles came. I wonder if there was an attraction based on my proximity to cool stuff people could do before and after? Several attendees were bundling erefest into longer trips involving backpacking, biking, etc. Local people wouldn't see an opportunity delta. Anyways - yes, I'm interested in reasons people didn't come as well.
A return flight to the western US would not fit my eco{log,nom}ical budget. The Dutch meeting wouldn't fit my calendar.
The logical conclusion for me would be I might want to (help) organise something in Europe myself next summer...
Was there a correlation between MMG participation and attendance?
Also, the timing was off for me due to personal obligations. My spouse is introverted and is stressed by new people/experiences and dislikes rustic conditions (What can I say, opposites attract.) so that was an issue too. That means something closer (Western US: CO, WY, UT, ID) would be more of a go.
Was there a correlation between MMG participation and attendance?
Yes. There was a huge proportion of (edit: video call type) MMG members. I am (edit:) 70% confident that at least 50% of the people who have attended a (edit:) video-call-type MMG regularly attended ERE fest and 90% confident at least 30% attended ERE fest. I don't know exactly who and how many people are in MMGs, but that's my guess. If you participated in more than one MMG, then you were even more likely to attend.
Edit: If you only participated in on-forum MMG groups (ie thread-based MMGs), then I don't think that made a big difference in whether you would show up compared to general forum participation.
Last edited by mathiverse on Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:21 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Of the 19 adults who attended, 6 were not involved in a [video-meet style] MMG group.
1 of those was my IRL nonforumite friend,
1 of those was the nonforumite SO of a forumite who also isn't in an MMG,
1 of those 6 has since joined an MMG.
[Another is the nonforumite SO of a forumite who is in MMGs. This nonforumite attendee is in a non-video based MMG, though.]
So 13 of the 19 had personal ties to each other or at least their group before they attended ERE Fest.
Interesting. I would bet that made them much more comfortable to commit knowing they at least knew others beforehand and wouldn't be the odd man out. Maybe some of you guys that attended can chime in on my hunch.
Is there a risk in that if true? Of unintentional cliques? I wonder about that as a person who has attended a lot of conferences and training sessions as a lone wolf and not part of a team. It can be trying because people tend to flock to known entities, sometimes to the point of exclusion and it's not hard to figure out quick you are the outlier.
Other organized groups know this and have ways to deal with it. E.g. a while ago, in DC, I went to a couple of events hosted by a local kinkster organization. A dedicated role was "newbie greeter and support." Before you attended any events, you had to attend a newbie intro session that explained how things work and what to expect. And then, at each happy hour or social event etc, there were a couple of people who watched out for new faces and helped out until people found their footing. Maybe a solution to the "people gravitate to known entities" problem might be a. an assigned greeter tole, and b. awareness on the part of old timers and conscious effort to incorporate first-time attendees
I believe we have been very very near the location when we visited the USA Sept. last year and I would have loved to visit again, even alone for the area.
But I didn't go mostly because of money/ecological as we had travelled already a lot In prior months
I did attend/organized several ERE meetings before in Toronto, Hong Kong and the Netherlands. I have not yet participated in a MMG, I didn't know anyone in person who would be going to this meetup, until a week before.
With an ERE crowd I would not afraid to be the newbie/einzelgänger/lone wolf, whereas I had this feeling at other big(ger) (net)work related events.
i was one of the six outlier, and i didn't feel excluded at all. I arrived early, it might have played a role, but i think the most important factor was how easy it was to have interesting conversation, and have an interlocutor look interested in the conversation (wheter it was due to be really interested or fear of angering me)
So 13 of the 19 had personal ties to each other or at least their group before they attended ERE Fest.
Interesting. I would bet that made them much more comfortable to commit knowing they at least knew others beforehand and wouldn't be the odd man out. Maybe some of you guys that attended can chime in on my hunch.
Is there a risk in that if true? Of unintentional cliques? I wonder about that as a person who has attended a lot of conferences and training sessions as a lone wolf and not part of a team. It can be trying because people tend to flock to known entities, sometimes to the point of exclusion and it's not hard to figure out quick you are the outlier.
Am I reading too much into this?
I think three factors (could have) played a role in the 'clique prevention':
Twenty people is a good number of people. Five people who know each other + 1 new person might be difficult, forty people might be too many people to really develop connections with. We also didn't sit around in one big circle most of the time, so the number of conversations/interactions were parallelized which allowed for quicker bonding.
People didn't all arrive at the same time, so there was some time for each arrived group to meet the others and get used to the main group/integrate
Even if you didn't knew any ERE people beforehand, you were still with 'your tribe', so mixing with these new people was relatively easy
AH and I had thought of doing some kind of ice breaker/introduction thing for people outside of potential MMG cliques to meet, but didn't need to use it since it all happened by itself.
I think an important factor in clique prevention is the fact that the ERE forums have a strong journaling culture. Meeting people whose journals you've been reading for years is quite a different experience from mingling with actual strangers at e.g. a conference.
It even came up in conversation that in some cases, we knew more intimate details of each others' lives than our 'real life' friends, because of what we had shared in our journals.
I only knew one person there before attending, but it didn't feel like it. The context from the journals gave the whole thing a vibe that was more like 'meeting 20 friends who you haven't spent time with in person yet' than 'meeting 20 strangers with a shared interest'.
All of which is to say, it didn't seem like the non-MMG members were left out in any way, as far as I could tell. The shared interpersonal context provided by the forum + journals was plenty to make integrating everyone into the broader group easy.
...
I suppose what I'm describing doesn't cover the case in which a person shows up who doesn't have a journal and doesn't read anyone else's journals either. Seems like a bit of an edge case... The closest thing we had to that was that the significant others of some forum members who came and @AxelHeyst's friend who isn't on the forum. They seemed to get integrated into the broader group very quickly, but I can't speak to what their subjective experience was like, or whether they felt excluded.
...
Also, as others mentioned, we might have stumbled onto a bit of a goldilocks amount of people with 20. If 100 people had shown up, I expect the dynamics would have been significantly different.
From all indications this was a well-thought out occasion, so bravo to everyone involved, whether you planned it or attended. For everyone to come away with a feeling of inclusion truly is a feat even for such a small group.
I once went to a social function with dancing involved. It was hilarious as there were groups of guys (myself included) and girls staring at each other and nobody making a move. Until a lady stepped up and started pairing everybody up without their consent. She was pretty forceful, grabbing guys and dragging them to the nearest girl and telling them to dance together, now! Looking back, the whole situation was hilarious but it worked!
If these events get bigger, you may have to resort to guerrilla tactics to make sure everyone has a chance to be part of the group.
My nonERE friend didn't feel excluded and she enjoyed her experience. She easily integrates into groups, the weirder the better tbh.
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The point about journaling culture is right on, I think, and underscores the reality that the forum is the foundation/fertile soil for the community. (And why darknetting is a phenomenon to be vigilant about).
I feel like the key component is this was a festival and not a conference. There was no need to network or participate in any activities if you didn't feel like it. I did "know" several people beforehand from various MMGs, but I don't think it made a huge difference. I do think the event was well set up, but I think the main thing was just getting everyone together for a few days, rather than a few hours. It would've been very easy to spend the whole time alone in your tent or wondering around the desert had anyone wanted to.
I felt like this was socially one of the easiest situations I've ever been in. Everyone was friendly and easy to talk to. It was a lot like the one regional burn (local burning man thing) or mardi gras. It wasn't like a conference or planned event where everything feels forced and planned activities are needed to get people talking.
I was surprised at how nice it was to actually be able to be myself and not hide some small aspect of my personality that I didn't even think I cared about hiding.
I see twenty pass by as an ideal number. Our countryside place could be a really good fit for a future European ERE gettogether next summer. If my wife doesn't veto the idea, that is
- sleeps 20, most or all on a mattress in a bed
- flushing toilets! showers!
- remote area with spectacular nature
- easily reachable by ferry/plane/bus, except for the scenic last 5 km by foot/bicycle/car
- berries and mushrooms to pick
- interesting eco and wallet friendly construction techniques used
Please do remind me of this silly thought of mine in spring!
Please do remind me of this silly thought of mine in spring!
'remind loutfard about fest' is now a reminder on my calendar.
Anyone who wants to host a fest anywhere: you have a standing invite to get in touch with me and pick my brain about hosting one, if you want/if it'd help you feel comfortable to go for it. (It's also fine if not - it'd be neat if every fest was totally unique/custom instead of merely a Copy of the first attempt).
I see twenty pass by as an ideal number. Our countryside place could be a really good fit for a future European ERE gettogether next summer. If my wife doesn't veto the idea, that is
That sounds amazing loutfard! I'll be in touch with you to discuss this, because it might be a great option. And we can maybe bribe your wife by helping out using our diverse renaissance skills
@Jean came by my place on his way through Phoenix last night. We shared a meal and spent the evening waxing philosophical. He also had me cracking up with some of his stories. It was very enjoyable.
I mention it in this thread because 1) it's an example of a real-life social connection that only occurred because we met at ERE-fest and 2) because forum-only people might not know that these types of interactions are possible / happening.
So in order to not darknet the forum while doing ERE things offline I wanted to document it here.
(Also because I hope stuff like this will inspire more real-life ERE interactions)
