Early Retirement Extreme Forums

Hi there,

Moving in a few weeks back to Europe and I am looking at buying a car. I am actually interested in buying a used Audi A4 avant from 2007 with about 110,000kms for like 6,500-7,000 euros.I like the 2.0 TDI or the 1.8 Turbo. I saw plenty of them in good shape and with those characteristics.

Any advice about diesel or gas? I know the diesel world is coming to an end (at some point) but more than half of the cars circulating in Spain (where I am moving) are diesel. So, I don't see any drastic change coming up in the next 5-10 years since it is not viable for more than half of the population to buy a new car in such a short period of time.

Thanks for your input!

I know Audi cars look great but they do not age well. If you are set on German, go with Mercedes. I find them horrible but there's a reason why almost ALL black cars are Mercedes.
Otherwise Subaru and Honda are two ultra reliable makes.

This said, all else being equal, buy diesel as it's fairly cheaper in terms of running costs, and modern Diesel engines have basically no drawbacks VS regular gas for non-performance cars.
Again, there's a reason why all fleet cars are diesel.

Only instances where gas is better is if you can buy a gas engine cheaper, and the savings on filling the tank don't make up if the difference (meaning you drive very little).
But you have to buy it cheaper in the first place*.

*when buying new, gas engines are usually cheaper than diesel, so theoretically if you bought new and drove very little, regular gas might make sense

Diesel was traditionally cheaper in the long term but be aware of tax penalties when buying diesel. There is a clampdown on Nitrogen oxide emissions and the savings may be as favourable as before (Although I don't know specifically about Spain)

Fleet cars are diesel because they drive long distances. A diesel engine does not make sense if most of your drives are to the shop around the corner or the office a few miles away. It won't be cheaper this way and you'll likely run into trouble with the particle filter backing up.

I'm on my second diesel car (Mazda 6, the last one was a Volvo) and I love it. Diesel is cheaper here for most of the year except a few months when they need to winterise it to -35C. With a 2L/105kW engine I usually get 4-5L/100km (47-58 mpg). But I generally don't drive for local errands or commute. I drive about 15,000 km a year and by my own calculations a comparable gas car would be more expensive all expenses in. I bought the car 5 years ago for 6200€ at 7 years old and 96,000 km on the clock.

The fuel situation in Europe is getting more complicated with the required share of "bio" mixed in going up + possible tax hits as chenda mentioned.

Thanks guys, I am definitely set on German cars. I find them attractive, reliable and very popular (meaning that every mechanic can fix them and parts are easy to find). I am also considering a Mercedes Benz E Class 220 CDI Avantgarde from 2004 in immaculate condition for 7,000 euros with 93,000kms and all the maintenance done in Mercedes.

I am thinking in using the car for small work commute (whenever I go back to the working force) and some camping, mountain and beach trips nearby. Definitely, no more than 12,000kms/year.

I also think I am leaning towards diesel based on everything I am reading. It seems that not only it is cheaper to maintain but the engines consume less and last longer?

I’m guessing electric isn’t an option in Spain yet?

@McTrex.

Not yet...Perhaps in 5-7 years?

We stopped at a gas station on a pee break today and I saw the price for petrol is €1.39/liter or $5.80/ US gallon.

I believe there are electric vehicles here. There is a government program to subsidize their purchase.

That said, we are in Galicia now and Biscay is probably different.

Yes, there are electric cars in Europe. However, they are quite expensive in the second hand market.

Hey, don’t miss some pintxos at Gure Toki. Amazing plqce in the Plaza Nueva in Bilbao!

Unfortunately we won't make it to Bilbao this time. Hopefully the next time.

We're in Germany, homeland of "dieselgate" so diesel cars are not overly popular right now. Which might be good for the rest of Europe - Germans are getting rid of their diesels left and right. Beware of EU climate protection laws ect. In a few German cities driving with an older diesel is prohibited already, who knows if this will become standard in all of Europe?

henrik wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:06 am

It won't be cheaper this way and you'll likely run into trouble with the particle filter backing up
...
The fuel situation in Europe is getting more complicated with the required share of "bio" mixed in going up + possible tax hits as chenda mentioned.

IDK if this is the case in Spain, but in Germany you pay significantly more taxes on owning a diesel, while the fuel is only a little bit cheaper.
That's why mostly people who drive a lot buy diesel, it pays only if you drive many kilometers.

Personally we have 2 cars (Fiat), one a diesel and the other one a gas engine. We never have any problems with the gas car, even though it has 40.000 more kilometers on the clock. The diesel is in the shop all the time - I suspect it is because we drive it very little!

Another personal opinion, as a German - German cars are overpriced and not more reliable than Asian cars or Ford, for example.
Considering the way VW, BMW, ect. have behaved during the recent "emissions scandal" I have lost all of my trust in those companies.

Everyone I know who drives a Mercedes complains that their cars are rusting way too early, so if you get an older Mercedes pay particular attention to this. I hear mostly good things about BMW, apart from the price. About Audi I can not say much because I actually don't know a single Audi owner.

Hope this helps!

Has anyone driven the smart car ? The car which is cut in half. They have quite a cult following now.

@horseman My dad drove to India in a VW camper in the early 1970s because VW spare parts and expertise were the only ones which you could be guaranteed to find en route. Even Afghanistani mechanics were familiar with German engineering. My grandfather, despite his wartime prejudice would only ever buy German cars. In fact he bought German anything because he perceived it as high quality. Even the toaster was made in Germany, something he proudly pointed out to me once

I'd get a VW Golf. Basically every mechanic can repair it, parts are everywhere, the car is well-made, reliable and looks good. There are still Golf 4 (1997 - 2003) roaming on German streets and they still look somewhat modern.

Diesel or gas depends on whether you mostly drive short or long routes. The diesel will suck in the former case because of particle filter clogging etc. The more you drive and the longer the trips, the better the diesel gets.

Frugalchicos wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:27 am

Thanks guys, I am definitely set on German cars. I find them attractive, reliable and very popular (meaning that every mechanic can fix them and parts are easy to find). I am also considering a Mercedes Benz E Class 220 CDI Avantgarde from 2004 in immaculate condition for 7,000 euros with 93,000kms and all the maintenance done in Mercedes.

I'd definitely check whether that is true. (Shady) car resellers sometimes dial back the km on the watch. In Germany there is something we call a "Scheckheft" in which regular services / maintenance are noted and the cars km are inserted. A friend of mine nearly bought a Mercedes like the one you mentioned a few weeks ago. He was lucky to call a Mercedes garage where they could check the "Scheckheft" online, because it's often digitized nowadays. The car had 200.000+ km on the watch 4 years ago, the car dealer dialed it back to 95.000km.

chenda wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:53 pm

Has anyone driven the smart car ? The car which is cut in half. They have quite a cult following now.

@horseman My dad drove to India in a VW camper in the early 1970s because VW spare parts and expertise were the only ones which you could be guaranteed to find en route. Even Afghanistani mechanics were familiar with German engineering. My grandfather, despite his wartime prejudice would only ever buy German cars. In fact he bought German anything because he perceived it as high quality. Even the toaster was made in Germany, something he proudly pointed out to me once

"Made in Germany" was required by foreign politicians to show it's bad quality. Kinda backfired

@Finity
Yeah, the local DMV records the kms every year and that is something they cannot modify. Also, Audi, Mercedes, BMW or whatever brand has a digital record similar to what you mentioned.

I am only looking for cars that have all the maintenance done in the dealership, the kms are certified and are free of structural damage. That said, I am willing to pay a little bit more in a reputable dealership for a trusted car.

At this point I am definitely set for the Audi A4 Avant from 2007-2010. I will decide when we move to Spain though.

Diesel cars are now very cheap. If you go for gas, then consider hybrids, such as Toyota Prius/Auris/Yaris