Exactly how cheap can housing be made?

[mountainFrugal]

Yes, I can see reasons not to (like you describe), but it seems like a sweet deal and you would get to see areas that might not have been on your radar. Obviously, @unemployable will have a lot to add.

[chenda]

Northern Italy looks ruddy marvellous. At the heart of Europe for next to nothing.

[CS]

Italy is a relatively high tax country. Gotta take on the whole picture. Been looking at Italy versus France, etc. Spain looks good except for that whole wet bulb limit and all that.

[Ego]

With housesitting I've gotten it down to zero + fuel between sites + the occasional hotel. (Those count because they're expenses you wouldn't have in a normal person house.) Some $3-400/month in my case but I use it as an excuse to travel around a bit. If were more diligent about reducing travel expenses I could cut down into the $2-300 range.

That is really impressive. Since you've been living in a variety of places and situations for a while now I would imagine you have a better idea of where you would prefer and what type of home would be ideal. Have you come to any conclusions?

[Seppia]

Italy is a relatively high tax country. Gotta take on the whole picture. Been looking at Italy versus France, etc. Spain looks good except for that whole wet bulb limit and all that.

it is, but if you make no money...

For wages:
France has lower taxes than Italy if you're married and have kids
France has higher taxes than Italy if you are single
Basically, wage taxation in Italy is about flat unless you REALLY make very little. Slightly progressive going from 30% to 45% (but you get to 45% pretty fast*)
In France the median is probably similar but it is really rewarding for families and really punitive for singles. The want you to have kids over there.

For someone living off their investments, Italy has lower capital gains and dividend taxes (26% vs 30%), but in Italy you will pay a yearly 0.2% tax on the total value of your investments. in France you pay a sort of stamp duty when you trade.

Life is generally cheaper in Italy, but it depends highly on where you decide to go (ie Milan is more expensive than anywhere in France other than Paris)

* percentages are approximately right, but not precise.

[unemployable]

Obviously, @unemployable will have a lot to add.

That is really impressive. Since you've been living in a variety of places and situations for a while now I would imagine you have a better idea of where you would prefer and what type of home would be ideal. Have you come to any conclusions?

I've collected my thoughts here: viewtopic.php?p=275513#p275513

[Jean]

96 in rent and about 100 in utility for a waterfront (water is clean enough to swim) property, 5 minutes walk to grocery 1hour drive to 3 intl airport.. living there alone instead of with gf would add 96 in rent.

[loutfard]

96 in rent and about 100 in utility for a waterfront (water is clean enough to swim) property, 5 minutes walk to grocery 1hour drive to 3 intl airport.. living there alone instead of with gf would add 96 in rent.

I'm confused. You're in Switzerland, right? Does Switzerland really have a few small and cheap places like that available? Is that a super exceptional case for 96 CHF in rent, for the proverbial ruined cow barn in a small mountain village, or for a temporary rental before teardown or renovation? I have a hard time imagining any kind of informal arrangement in Switzerland...

[Seppia]

That would be incredibly impressive, I’d be interested to hear more.
Owning a small place in Switzerland is my ultimate SHTF hedge, but real estate everywhere that I know first hand (Lugano and surroundings, Engadina region) is incredibly expensive.
It has to be said that construction is super high quality and things last a LOT longer than in the US, but even 20 minutes outside of Lugano going up the mountain a 1300sqf place is north of 700k.
In engadina it's minimum $1000 per sqf

[sky]

We van-camped in Keokuk, Iowa last year, I thought the neighborhood around Rand Park overlooking the Mississippi River was nice. It is a historic river town and there are a lot of old homes with very low prices. In this case $25k, but you could find very nice homes for about $100k.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/410- ... 3622_zpid/

[zbigi]

In my home city in Poland, you can buy a renovated 40 m^2 flat for around $30k-$40k. The total monthly ongoing costs are around $170, including maintenance costs (cleaning of common areas, grass mowing etc.), periodical renovations of the building's structure and installations as necessary, property tax, garbage disposal, central heating, water, electricity (incl. required to heat up the water), fibreglass Internet.

[Jean]

Buying property is usually very expensive (500k is cheap, 1m is common), but from time to time, there is a cheap option (like my house i bought for 115k), patience is key.
The place i rent is a very rare arrangement. It a places that is waiting to be teared down since 15 years. There is no reason it will be teared down soon. I've seen similar ones, so they exist. The easiest way to live cheaply is to find a campsite where you can put a trailer year round, on a municipality that accepts it as a permanent address.

[Laura Ingalls]

We van-camped in Keokuk, Iowa last year, I thought the neighborhood around Rand Park overlooking the Mississippi River was nice. It is a historic river town and there are a lot of old homes with very low prices. In this case $25k, but you could find very nice homes for about $100k.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/410- ... 3622_zpid/

We looked at houses in neighboring Fort Madison about 10 years ago. The river is pretty, the living is cheap, but it can be a bit “Tweakerville”. I personally think Eldon seems like the most junked out, methed out Iowa town.

Harrison, NE would be cheap and safe but you would want to be a cowgirl.

[sky]

I have been trying to get my wife interested in a tour of western Nebraska, without much success. Chadron, NE looked interesting. I don't see any hot real estate deals there today.

A lot of deals in Carbondale, IL: https://www.zillow.com/carbondale-il/2- ... 0%7D%7D%7D

[loutfard]

I have been trying to get my wife interested in a tour of western Nebraska, without much success. Chadron, NE looked interesting. I don't see any hot real estate deals there today.

A lot of deals in Carbondale, IL: https://www.zillow.com/carbondale-il/2- ... 0%7D%7D%7D

Looks like a steal indeed. A university city with a fairly good rating, 90% lower housing pricing and substantially higher wages than here. The US really does seem to have great arbitrage opportunities with so much less barriers between the states.

[sky]

Europe also has opportunities, you can look in depopulated rural areas, or in eastern EU countries. You might have to learn a different language and deal with different regulations and customs. Then it becomes a search for a location with amenities within walking distance.

[jacob]

You might have to learn a different language and deal with different regulations and customs.

To me the [much] harder aspect of generic immigration advice is securing residency yet people rarely mention this. What am I missing? A few years ago when we were contemplating leaving the US, the number of countries where it was possible to secure residence without an extended process requiring, say $150,000 in investments, or needing a proven monthly passive income of $1500+ was very limited.

[Western Red Cedar]

To me the [much] harder aspect of generic immigration advice is securing residency yet people rarely mention this. What am I missing?

I don't think you are missing anything. Generic immigration advice, aside from something like the right to free movement for EU residents, isn't particularly helpful. The circumstances vary depending on a variety of factors for each individual or family.

This thread explores the dynamic in a bit more detail for those who are interested:

viewtopic.php?t=12678

[sky]

You are correct. I tend to overlook residency requirements because I have the right to live in the both the USA and the European Union.

[Seppia]

To me the [much] harder aspect of generic immigration advice is securing residency yet people rarely mention this. What am I missing? A few years ago when we were contemplating leaving the US, the number of countries where it was possible to secure residence without an extended process requiring, say $150,000 in investments, or needing a proven monthly passive income of $1500+ was very limited.

as a European citizen you have the right to be wherever you want within the EU, and spouses get the benefit by default.
Certain countries ie Italy are very generous when giving a passport due to family roots
For non EU citizens, there are a few countries that check the boxes of LCOL, safety and good infrastructure where the barrier to entry is fairly low.
IE both Panama and Malaysia only need relatively low levels of investment. Malaysia in particular is very accommodating - you need to put the money in a bank account and that's it. It's not even a "cost". Look for Malaysia My Second Home
for Italians, you only need $5000 in a bank account to demand a 5 year visa in Panama that allows you to work (Tratado de Amistad). After 5 years you can request permanent residency.

All that to say, there are options out there