Early Retirement Extreme Forums

onewayfamily wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:41 am

To MDFIRE - that list you wrote of your lifestyle could basically be quoting me, and I suspect many others on the forum. A few points that I did want to give another perspective for you though:
- loans/debt: I agree in most cases these are negative, especially if used to purchase depreciating items or non-assets, but getting heavily into mortgage debt and buying a few apartments to rent out is pretty much what enabled our FIRE in the first place, simply saving and investing without leverage would have taken a lot longer. Obviously this has to be done right, with a lot of research etc.
- computers/phones etc: I also buy used/refurbished where possible, but I still try to get items that are up-to-date and fast enough so that I'm not wasting time that I could use more productively. E.g. you can get a phone/laptop that is a couple years out from the latest model, either new/used/refurbished for a good price, and you will still get good speed and performance. If you use something heavily it's worth paying extra to have a good experience I believe. You may already do this, I just wasn't sure from the level of detail in your post.

Thank you onewayfamily for the positive feedback!
- I see the point in loans and debt, which you mentioned. I guess it is a very personal thing, that I don't want to be dependent on something. I have thought about Real Estate Investing and Renting with debt involved, but I don't think that this is something for me. Although the leverage effect could be huge. Have you made or are you making good experiences with Real Estate and Renting? Or was it buying and selling Real Estates?
- Performance and speed and productivity. I know. Last year I have replaced my old PC and a month ago I have replaced my old smartphone. Both were really slow in the end. I have experienced a huge performance improvement. I guess I try to use the "Middle Way" as you mentioned. I don't buy the latest products, but also not the oldest and cheapest ones. Take Care!

Hiya man, just checking in, you're doing awesome!
I thought my own life was a constant experimentation in self-improvement, you beat me by miles!
Would just be interested to know your reasons behind not consuming any news, etc? Apologies if you've already answered this!

@Sabaka: Thank you!

Yeah, I am constantly trying to reinvent myself, improve, develop...etc. At the same time I try not do judge and compare myself with others. "Live and Let Live" somehow. I hope we (all here in this forum) can learn from each other and develop somehow together, although the "connection" are only online and virtual, but at the same time real. Well, I feel very good to be part of this community and develop myself at the same time.

Regarding your question about avoiding news. Some months ago I have discovered a good essay about it. There are many reasons. You can discover it by yourself here: http://www.dobelli.com/en/essays/news-diet/

Let us know how avoiding news improve your life.

I have noticed that I feel better if I take a break from news, tv and random internet surfing

MDFIRE2024 wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:32 pm

although the "connection" are only online and virtual, but at the same time real. Well, I feel very good to be part of this community and develop myself at the same time.

While the connections are online, you probably still get to know a lot of people here better than good friends in RL. How many people openly tell you about their financial position including income, savings and spending, their life goals, what they went through and how they are planning to spend their life? Not many, I guess

Forskaren wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:08 pm

Let us know how avoiding news improve your life.
I have noticed that I feel better if I take a break from news, tv and random internet surfing

I have experienced the same. I avoid watching TV news, surfing on websites with news, reading daily newspaper, push news ticker, breaking news...
Instead I try to read weekly one quality newspaper on weekends, reading books and quality magazines.
Overvall I feel, that by avoiding news it improves my life in the following ways:
- less distraction from breaking news, ... e.g. more deliberate practice time and slow thinking
- less advertisements, therefore less influenced on consumer/buying decisions
- more time for other things and activities
- better investment decisions. Before I sometimes acted upon news regarding investment decision. After avoiding news I see it as an aspect of many others, e.g. researching sentiment in the media, but I am not influenced by the "market experts" who regurlary comment in the media and news
- less addiction to news and media. I don't have to know about the latest updates and news anymore
- more understanding that I don't control things by reading about them. News = past! What I think now and do = present and future!
- more mental energy to think about other stuff, e.g. stoicsm, ERE, personal development, psychology, ...
- more depth of knowledge
- of course no costs for newspaper, ...
- less stress. The less I know about bad stuff, crisis, crashes, deaths, ... the less I think about in the past. Of course I know about such things, but I cannot do anything against it anyway.
- more positve emotions than negative emotions overall. News cover negative thing moreoften than positve ones because we as humans are attracted to negative things, e.g. we have more attention to warnings, dangers, ... evolutionally
- less "cluttered mind"
- no (future) regrets, that I someday complain that I wasted time with reading newspapers and breaking news titles, watching TV, ...
- more productivity and effectiveness (Doing the right things by avoiding things that don't improve my life)
- better understanding, that I find out about important things in the world anyway by friends, family, colleagues, neighbours, ...
- IMO people become addicted, dependent, influenced, biased, ... by news and media

Well, I could write even more if I try to think longer about it. Does anyone can add positive aspects by avoiding news?

I posted something about my introversion, relationships and my current social and emotional challenge going from independence to interdependence here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8902&p=154079#p154079

Inspired by Buddha’s guidelines on how to look after your money
I created a physical visualization of my progress towards my FI net worth.

They say, that "... riches will be steadily accumulated like an ant-hill that grows high." Therefore I thought about an ant-hill (pyramid).

Each month I cross fields. When I arrive at the top I will have achieved my FI-money-goal. Each field represents 1.000€.

That and other visualizations keep me motivated and help me stay on track towards my FI-goals, besides ERE, of course.

The image worked when you first posted, but it isn't displaying anymore. (It's probably working only for you.) If I go to your image link, I get a Google login page. Maybe try uploading the image to a site like imgbb or imgur.

I did see the image earlier. (You have nice handwriting! ) It is a nice and simple way of visualizing progress. The YMOYL wall chart is the standard, but since your expenses are more or less fixed then the net worth goal is also fixed. I might need to try it. At my level of expenses I kind of get discouraged by the enormity of the task (it feels like I'm perpetually 1/3 of the way to FI) and maybe checking a few boxes every month will remind me that I'm making incremental progress. Is the number of boxes checked based on the amount saved each month, or based on the change in net worth? How would you handle negative changes in net worth due to investment price fluctuations? Would you erase boxes?

Anyway, I also want to mention that I admire your enthusiasm, positive attitude, and desire to learn. Thanks for bringing all of that to this forum.

I've been employing visualization techniques lately. It is essentially comes down to this - "when doing that which I love the most it is the only thing I have to do and I am doing it where (Geographically) I would prefer to be."

@Fish,
now it works. Checking boxes remind me of that incremental progress you mentioned. The number of boxes represent the amount of accumulated FI-money at the beginning of each month (after I have saved the portion from my income and after I have checked the current value of my investmens). Since starting the "ant-hill" pyramid I have not experienced a negative change, luckily. But if so, then I wouldn't check any new boxes. Therefore the number of checked boxes represent my (last) all-time high of accumulated FI-money. I don't erase boxes. I check boxes, as long as I will have achieved my goal
Thank you Fish, I appreciate it! I am trying to contribute, because I have to thank Jacob, you and all other participants on this forum for all this great wisdom about life and ERE.

Fish wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:54 am

(You have nice handwriting! )

I wrote it with my right hand. I am usually left-handed, but I have trained myself to write with my right hand for the last couple of years. My writing with my left hand is not so nice


@Jason,
insighful statement, or is it a quote? Do you visualize it physically or digitally, or both? When I posted it, I thought about digitalizing the "ant-hill" into a spreadsheet.

I made that shit up. But I was kind of thinking about the Michelangelo quote about removing the unnecessary marble in order to find the sculpture.

So I picture my life as a block of marble. Ok. What I do want it to look like i.e the sculpture. I realized that I want it to look like me doing what I love to do the most, as much as possible. Then I compared it to my life as it is. The difference are the things that take me away from the sculpture. So that necessitates a confrontation with both the abstract and the material constituents of my life (the marble) with the sculpting tools of ERE. ERE really is about elimination. So I start with the easy stuff which is the material stuff. Like spending and unnecessary crap that I have allowed to remain in my house. Then I move on to the hard stuff - the non-material. Do I need to eliminate doubt? Yes, so I start hammering away at doubt. Do I need to eliminate negativity? You betcha. So I start going after that. Do I need to eliminate beating myself up at past failures. Hell to the yeah. Do I need to deal with the fact that I'm basically lazy. Yes. On and on.

And before I know it, I see my perfect life doing what I want to do where I want to do it. And then soon after that, I'm dead but I figure there's no way to hammer that shit out.

@Jason:
That's a great way to see ERE and self-actualization. I gotta think about ERE and my interpretation of it in that way you described. Intutionally I think I will see some new aspects of ERE, when I look it that way. Thank you for posting this! You will read my interpretation of it soon.

I brainstormed quite some time about Jason's thoughts. I tried to find ideas to each sentence he said and I found various thoughts within myself.
For me, being on the ERE journey is like comparing my Current-Self with my Future-Self. I am not final and I never will be. But there is a start and a beginning of my ERE journey. Let’s just say, that I think currently about those three aspects:
1. How I want to be
2. What I want to do
3. What I want to have

Being+Doing+Having. That could be one way for me to think about my Future-Self.
So first, I want to live authentically within my core values and virtues. That means, that I want to be independent, free, conscious, integer, trustworthy, honest, genuine , rational and open.
Secondly, I want to grow, develop, learn, experience, behave healthy, think, write and just be myself.
Thirdly, I want to have fulfilled my basic and comfort needs. I want to have a life full of memories and experiences. I want to have skills, competency and wisdom. I want to have a book and a pencil to write my daily Journal. I want to have my freedom to do what I want to do without any dependencies to work for money. I want to have a bike for mobility and I want to have various sources of information (books, internet, videos, etc.) That is my interpretation of my Future-Self for the moment.

ERE gives my tools, methods, instruments, techniques and a way of thinking to make changes from my Current-Self to my Future-Self. ERE is some way of a change management toolset, as I think about it. There is this need to change myself. In order to achieve things I have to let go, eliminate and reduce, as Jason said. On the other hand, I think I have to learn and grow.

These two ways (eliminate+learn) can be combined with Being (habits, thoughts, feelings), Doing (activities, skills) and Having (things, posessions). By that, I look at my life from a different view, perspective and angle and through different „glasses“. I have learned that by looking at something from a different perspective, I will learn something new about it.

Minimalism, Simple Living, Downshifting, Buddhism, Spirituality, Psychology, Personal Development and Growth, Maslow’s pyramid of needs, Loevinger’s stages of ego development, even Project Management, Kaizen (Japanese for continous improvement) and Kaikaku (radical change), Process Management, Goal- and Processorientation, Comfort- and Stretchingzone, Personality Models, Philosophy, Stoicism, Producing/Consuming/Pausing, etc. All that has shaped me so far and will shape me in the future.

I don’t know where all this leads in my life. I am quite sure that if I live authentically all the time, I will be happy and satisfied with the progress and the results at the end.

For me this is about both: journey and destination, process and goal.

From Loevinger’s stages of ego development I learned about the postconventional stages (but I don’t want to judge or compare). I have learned about conscientious, individualistic, autonomous and integrated stages. There is a good German translation of the wikipedia page. They call it self-determined, relativise (put into perspective), systematic, integrated and flowing stages. I want to be like that. I want to do things like that. I want to have things like that. Well, but from Buddhism I have learned to let go. So, I try to let go to want. Instead, I just be, do and have. And that, I find sometimes difficult and other times easy. It changes always, so do I.

Again, Jason many thanks for your inspirational thoughts. By thinking and writing about it, I have learned something new. And that has a positive influence on my day and my life

I cannot view your embedded image.
Could you post the link to it please?

@fiby41: now it should work (again). I am sorry, but I haven't found an easier way to this with Google-Picassa. I gotta write that steps down, in order to remember these the next time, because I don't post pics that often. Well, I hope it works now (finally).

Yes its showing now. Thanks for the visualisation and explaining it.

• Savings Rate = 87% (12 months rolling average)

• Withdrawal Rate = 8,1% (12 months rolling average + Margin of Safety)

• yearly expenses = 5815€ (12 months rolling average)

• FI = 42% (accumulated FI-money compared to FI-goal of 350k€)

• invested = 55% (invested FI-money in stock market, rest of it in cash)

• passive income = 12% (compared to yearly expenses)

• time to FI(RE) = 86 months (counting down months till end of year 2024)

You are doing great indeed! With this level of savings, surely you will be FI long before 2024? Or are you planning for ultra conservative WR/significantly higher expenses in future?

@Bankai: Thank you! There is a special effect involved in this high SR. This year I have made two FIRE-Simulations. Instead of traveling (expensive), I staid at home (cheap). Therefore this high SR is because of staying at home and not traveling or doing more expensive stuff.
I think also that I could be FI before 2024. It of course depends. I am also planning conservative. Aditionally, I want to fulfill some (small) dreams, when I have more time, e.g. in a sabbatical, mini-retirement, part-time work, in between jobs, ... That is the reason why I look beside my past expenses (needs and wants living in Germany) also to possible future expenses ("Ultimate Lfe's Adventour List", traveling and living in other countries).
I also think that Germany is good regarding Local Purchasing Power (income and cost of living https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/r ... ountry.jsp) And if I travel and/or live in other countries, I guess that won't be as cheap as in Germany, e.g. New Zealand, Australia, Sweden, USA, ...
Anyway, FI comes first, then maybe FF and after that RE or a mini-retirement, sabbatical, but all the time ERE-Lifestyle.
I think I want to be prepared and therefore plan conservative. I can't hide my "German"-safety mentality here.