so true tofi, i download stuff just for the hell of downloading stuff. for example, i go to imdb.com and just download every single movie with decent reviews, havent watched the vast majority of them and probably wont but hey its there.
i still fail to see how people can claim they are losing money from me when i would never have any intention of buying these movies in the first place.
in regards to going to the theatre, i hate every aspect of it. driving there, finding a park, waiting in line, sitting amongst other people, listening to other people talk, not being able to pause and rewind. id rather pay to sit in the comfort of my own surroundings at home.
Why do people still buy cds, dvds?
I don't buy cds or dvds. If digital files with high bitrate (360kbps mp3 or flac) doesn't have the same quality for you, either you're full of shit or you have the most perfect ear of the planet.
If i wanted real high quality with maximum fidelity i would only buy vinyl from analogical recordings, but i don't need that.
If i wanted real high quality with maximum fidelity i would only buy vinyl from analogical recordings, but i don't need that.
Coming away from reading the Aussie thread and reading OP's recent comments over there, it is hard for me to take the OP seriously or try and empathise with the points he makes. But I too have a few points to make.
1. The record companies' pricing and revenue model is deliberately obfuscate. They make a lot of money (markups are very very high) out of selling their wares. Besides, remember the famous, apocryphal accounting joke along the lines of "What do you want 2 + 2 to be?" A lot of "legal" underhand practices go about in projecting revenue losses, etc. Based on my observation of pricing models -- companies mostly price such items (CD, DVD, etc.) with whatever they can get away with in any part of the World. This is one of my biggest gripes with the industry. Just a single E.g., Koyaanasqatsi DVD in India is roughly priced at nearly $22 (^), whereas it can be purchased from Amazon for $9.
(^) plus it has to be imported and takes a month at least to deliver
2. Accessibility: All content is not available in all places. Buying online is even more of a hassle in such cases because of exhorbitant shipping costs, damage or loss in transit of physical medias, rotten DRM laws around the same, etc....
3. What portion of your actual salary does the item's price/value represent? This is important in determining if the person would choose to pay legally and buy it or will decide to look for another way to satisfy this want. The other way is unethical, but that consideration comes waay later.
4. I don't want to frame this in a "victim" vs "aggressor" way, but most policies of said companies are very high handed and just wrong. There is a lot of controversy recently about stereo mix soundcard recording being intentionally turned off on modern PCs through DRM/RIAA lobbies...
In the past, I used to frame online piracy from a purely black/white POV like many here, but I have lately come to the opinion that it is largely a grey area depending on the viewpoint! OK, I will concede that torrenting is not the best practice, but I wouldn't condemn it as "stealing" as people have said here. It clearly depends on the circumstances. Based on my own professional dealings, I have nothing but contempt for the patent/IP/royalty cartels that prey over the rest of the World! In developing countries bootleg copies of books, DVDs have really helped in their developing their competetiveness. This has always been the case through out of History. Look at the History of how Tulips or Coffee or Pepper were smuggled by European powers at various parts of History.....
So, clearly, I am of the opinion that the OP's position and take on piracy is non-exonerable, because of his circumstances. However, please remember the above points in future discussions on these matters!
1. The record companies' pricing and revenue model is deliberately obfuscate. They make a lot of money (markups are very very high) out of selling their wares. Besides, remember the famous, apocryphal accounting joke along the lines of "What do you want 2 + 2 to be?" A lot of "legal" underhand practices go about in projecting revenue losses, etc. Based on my observation of pricing models -- companies mostly price such items (CD, DVD, etc.) with whatever they can get away with in any part of the World. This is one of my biggest gripes with the industry. Just a single E.g., Koyaanasqatsi DVD in India is roughly priced at nearly $22 (^), whereas it can be purchased from Amazon for $9.
(^) plus it has to be imported and takes a month at least to deliver
2. Accessibility: All content is not available in all places. Buying online is even more of a hassle in such cases because of exhorbitant shipping costs, damage or loss in transit of physical medias, rotten DRM laws around the same, etc....
3. What portion of your actual salary does the item's price/value represent? This is important in determining if the person would choose to pay legally and buy it or will decide to look for another way to satisfy this want. The other way is unethical, but that consideration comes waay later.
4. I don't want to frame this in a "victim" vs "aggressor" way, but most policies of said companies are very high handed and just wrong. There is a lot of controversy recently about stereo mix soundcard recording being intentionally turned off on modern PCs through DRM/RIAA lobbies...
In the past, I used to frame online piracy from a purely black/white POV like many here, but I have lately come to the opinion that it is largely a grey area depending on the viewpoint! OK, I will concede that torrenting is not the best practice, but I wouldn't condemn it as "stealing" as people have said here. It clearly depends on the circumstances. Based on my own professional dealings, I have nothing but contempt for the patent/IP/royalty cartels that prey over the rest of the World! In developing countries bootleg copies of books, DVDs have really helped in their developing their competetiveness. This has always been the case through out of History. Look at the History of how Tulips or Coffee or Pepper were smuggled by European powers at various parts of History.....
So, clearly, I am of the opinion that the OP's position and take on piracy is non-exonerable, because of his circumstances. However, please remember the above points in future discussions on these matters!
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George the original one
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MP3 is a lossy compression algorithm, so the final sound quality is affected not only by the bit rate, but the quality of the original signal.
Uncompressed audio as stored on an audio-CD has a bit rate of 1,411.2 kbit/s, so the bitrates 128, 160 and 192 kbit/s represent compression ratios of approximately 11:1, 9:1 and 7:1 respectively.
It's like the difference between working with raw image files vs. JPG files.
Uncompressed audio as stored on an audio-CD has a bit rate of 1,411.2 kbit/s, so the bitrates 128, 160 and 192 kbit/s represent compression ratios of approximately 11:1, 9:1 and 7:1 respectively.
It's like the difference between working with raw image files vs. JPG files.
@Surio
As the old saying goes, "two wrongs don't make a right." Just because DRM is stupid, and it is, or a company over charges for a product is not a grounds to steal it.
"bootleg copies of books, DVDs have really helped in their developing their competetiveness."
How is a bootleg copy of Mission Impossible, The Shining, etc. going to help with their competitiveness? And, even if it does, too bad. The owners/creators get to decide how it is sold, where, for how much, etc.
I just don't see the logic behind your 4 points. It's still taking something that isn't yours.
As the old saying goes, "two wrongs don't make a right." Just because DRM is stupid, and it is, or a company over charges for a product is not a grounds to steal it.
"bootleg copies of books, DVDs have really helped in their developing their competetiveness."
How is a bootleg copy of Mission Impossible, The Shining, etc. going to help with their competitiveness? And, even if it does, too bad. The owners/creators get to decide how it is sold, where, for how much, etc.
I just don't see the logic behind your 4 points. It's still taking something that isn't yours.
Ripping stuff has become very common nowadays. You can't entirely blame people when the first google result for the song leads you to YouTube.
Every time you search you are complacent to the fact that Google steals little snippets of content from websites all across the world.
Should you blame Google or should you embrace the fact that you found ERE? Now you may think this analogy is stupid but I see many people buying the sequels, books and games of something they ripped in the past. Something to think about.
Every time you search you are complacent to the fact that Google steals little snippets of content from websites all across the world.
Should you blame Google or should you embrace the fact that you found ERE? Now you may think this analogy is stupid but I see many people buying the sequels, books and games of something they ripped in the past. Something to think about.
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paxprobellum
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Mon May 23, 2011 8:22 pm
@Surio
I went to a car dealership recently. I wanted to buy a car, but I didn't have enough money. It's ridiculous though - they literally have hundreds of cars just SITTING AROUND and they won't let me have one unless I pay an outrageous amount of money for it. They make so much money off of selling cars that they can afford to pay thousands of employees to design them! (Also, they said if I wanted to bring my car to Europe, I would have to PAY to SHIP IT! I guess that's a different scam, though.) Either way, this kind of treatment is ridiculous. I decided to just grab a brick from my front yard, smash the window, and drive off laughing. Boy did I beat the system!
I went to a car dealership recently. I wanted to buy a car, but I didn't have enough money. It's ridiculous though - they literally have hundreds of cars just SITTING AROUND and they won't let me have one unless I pay an outrageous amount of money for it. They make so much money off of selling cars that they can afford to pay thousands of employees to design them! (Also, they said if I wanted to bring my car to Europe, I would have to PAY to SHIP IT! I guess that's a different scam, though.) Either way, this kind of treatment is ridiculous. I decided to just grab a brick from my front yard, smash the window, and drive off laughing. Boy did I beat the system!
@Don Emanuel
"Ripping stuff has become very common nowadays. You can't entirely blame people when the first google result for the song leads you to YouTube."
So, in 1985 if I saw a video on MTV I should have received a free recording? I fail to see how YouTube makes it ok for me to commit a crime.
"Should you blame Google or should you embrace the fact that you found ERE?"
Google didn't steal ERE material from Jacob. Jacob freely offered up to Google and other search engines, as he knew how the whole thing worked before he placed the info on the internet.
"Now you may think this analogy is stupid but I see many people buying the sequels, books and games of something they ripped in the past. Something to think about."
So, it's ok if I steal the BMW in the parking lot, as long as I buy a BMW the next time I need a car?
I completely agree that DRM is foolish and companies shouldn't go around suing 14 year olds for illegally downloading music, etc. In some cases these illegal downloads do lead to other purchases. However, it still doesn't make illegal downloads moral or legal.
"Ripping stuff has become very common nowadays. You can't entirely blame people when the first google result for the song leads you to YouTube."
So, in 1985 if I saw a video on MTV I should have received a free recording? I fail to see how YouTube makes it ok for me to commit a crime.
"Should you blame Google or should you embrace the fact that you found ERE?"
Google didn't steal ERE material from Jacob. Jacob freely offered up to Google and other search engines, as he knew how the whole thing worked before he placed the info on the internet.
"Now you may think this analogy is stupid but I see many people buying the sequels, books and games of something they ripped in the past. Something to think about."
So, it's ok if I steal the BMW in the parking lot, as long as I buy a BMW the next time I need a car?
I completely agree that DRM is foolish and companies shouldn't go around suing 14 year olds for illegally downloading music, etc. In some cases these illegal downloads do lead to other purchases. However, it still doesn't make illegal downloads moral or legal.
@pax,
I knew when I was writing that it will be a hornet's nest!
. I see what you wish to convey, but the analogy is off.
Let me add a personal note here: While I lived in the UK, I used to buy my CDs, books, DVDs legally when I could afford it. I have since moved to India, and I have looked at the pricing and mark-up differences based on PPP and I simply stopped buying stuff. But since I have lived both the lives personally, I can empathise with why some people go ahead and do it.
w.r.t. cars, what we are looking at is mobility. I have real choices here other than what you said.
1. I can go to another dealer (of another make, model, manufacturer),
2. I can buy a second hand car (for much cheaper),
3. I can buy it off an old friend and pay in small interest-free instalments (or pay nothing, which I have seen as well),
4. I can salvage an old one (cost, can be as low or as high as you want it to be here),
5. I can maintain an older car for a very long time without obsolescence.
6. Most importantly, I can also buy a moped/motorcycle/scooter like billions of fellow Asians, and I am sorted in terms of mobility.
Do we have that kind of flexibility with entertainment?
1. We have a digital media monopoly everywhere now, I have to pay whatever the companies choose to mark up -- and the pricing is just bizarre as well as gouging. Believe me, I spent time trying to understand.
2. kindle won't read epubs (or PDFs even? I haven't looked, as I haven't bought),
3. I cannot buy an audio cassette (used to be the cheaper alternative) if I want to,
4. If I am on a different "Region", my player won't play your DVD
5. In the past, I could buy a landline telephone anywhere and use it anywhere else! I cannot do that with mobile phones now (GSM/CDMA issues)!
5a. PAL/VHS video cassette issues was another interesting footnote similar to the GSM/CDMA issue.
6. And so on and so forth.
I understand ethics enough to accept that torrenting stuff is not the best way forward. But I won't do a broad sweep and call it stealing. Also, remember that the whole idea of bittorrent for file sharing is a relatively new phenomenon. And it developed as a response to the direction that the entertainment industry decided to take in the first place.
EDIT: Remember I am not writing on behalf of the OP's position or situation. The OP's position is not exonerated.
I knew when I was writing that it will be a hornet's nest!
. I see what you wish to convey, but the analogy is off.Let me add a personal note here: While I lived in the UK, I used to buy my CDs, books, DVDs legally when I could afford it. I have since moved to India, and I have looked at the pricing and mark-up differences based on PPP and I simply stopped buying stuff. But since I have lived both the lives personally, I can empathise with why some people go ahead and do it.
w.r.t. cars, what we are looking at is mobility. I have real choices here other than what you said.
1. I can go to another dealer (of another make, model, manufacturer),
2. I can buy a second hand car (for much cheaper),
3. I can buy it off an old friend and pay in small interest-free instalments (or pay nothing, which I have seen as well),
4. I can salvage an old one (cost, can be as low or as high as you want it to be here),
5. I can maintain an older car for a very long time without obsolescence.
6. Most importantly, I can also buy a moped/motorcycle/scooter like billions of fellow Asians, and I am sorted in terms of mobility.
Do we have that kind of flexibility with entertainment?
1. We have a digital media monopoly everywhere now, I have to pay whatever the companies choose to mark up -- and the pricing is just bizarre as well as gouging. Believe me, I spent time trying to understand.
2. kindle won't read epubs (or PDFs even? I haven't looked, as I haven't bought),
3. I cannot buy an audio cassette (used to be the cheaper alternative) if I want to,
4. If I am on a different "Region", my player won't play your DVD
5. In the past, I could buy a landline telephone anywhere and use it anywhere else! I cannot do that with mobile phones now (GSM/CDMA issues)!
5a. PAL/VHS video cassette issues was another interesting footnote similar to the GSM/CDMA issue.
6. And so on and so forth.
I understand ethics enough to accept that torrenting stuff is not the best way forward. But I won't do a broad sweep and call it stealing. Also, remember that the whole idea of bittorrent for file sharing is a relatively new phenomenon. And it developed as a response to the direction that the entertainment industry decided to take in the first place.
EDIT: Remember I am not writing on behalf of the OP's position or situation. The OP's position is not exonerated.
@Chad,
You might want to read my reply to @pax above, since that addresses some of the points of your response.
I like how you used an aphorism to summarise your position. Likewise, my aphorism in this case would be "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" (however trite you may think that to be). Unless you adapt this thinking, I doubt if I will ever be able to make you "see the logic of my four points".
Dude, I was talking about Kaplan and other CD courses, TEFL books, cheaper rip-offs of massively overpriced textbooks, videos tutorials on hardware/software etc. Having said that, even mindless entertainment has helped businessmen in picking up the latest slang, dress sense, a common topic to break the ice when dealing with fellow businessmen, etc...
I will repeat this again: I used to buy my CDs, books, DVDs legally when I could afford it. I have since moved to India, and I have looked at the pricing and mark-up differences based on PPP and I simply stopped buying stuff.
But since I have seen the difference in salaries, prices and PPP first hand, not to mention the unfairness of withholding information outright from "this" country or "that" country, I choose to empathise with people that go down the torrenting road for certain compelling reasons.
Remember I am not writing on behalf of the OP's position or situation. The OP's position is not exonerated.
You might want to read my reply to @pax above, since that addresses some of the points of your response.
I like how you used an aphorism to summarise your position. Likewise, my aphorism in this case would be "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" (however trite you may think that to be). Unless you adapt this thinking, I doubt if I will ever be able to make you "see the logic of my four points".
Dude, I was talking about Kaplan and other CD courses, TEFL books, cheaper rip-offs of massively overpriced textbooks, videos tutorials on hardware/software etc. Having said that, even mindless entertainment has helped businessmen in picking up the latest slang, dress sense, a common topic to break the ice when dealing with fellow businessmen, etc...
I will repeat this again: I used to buy my CDs, books, DVDs legally when I could afford it. I have since moved to India, and I have looked at the pricing and mark-up differences based on PPP and I simply stopped buying stuff.
But since I have seen the difference in salaries, prices and PPP first hand, not to mention the unfairness of withholding information outright from "this" country or "that" country, I choose to empathise with people that go down the torrenting road for certain compelling reasons.
Remember I am not writing on behalf of the OP's position or situation. The OP's position is not exonerated.
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jacob
- Site Admin
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- Contact:
Ethics aside, I think this is just the world adapting to a new reality where it's no longer possible to control the physical delivery of a media that used to be massproduced.
So what we had were authors and musicians catering to the widest possible audience. Inoffensive easy-read books and pop music that made a few people very rich and left everybody else out.
We've also had a system of artists and patrons.
What is the new system going to look like? Only amateur writers and musicians writing for small niche groups and being largely uncompensated, that is to say, no rockstar incomes but also an easier way to get published. Games relying on subscriptions. Blogs relying on ads.
My main complaint with the old/new system transition is that it's pretty hard to tell what's illegal and what's legal. For example some things on youtube are sponsored, but it's not like it's made abundantly clear whether something is illegal (obviously) or legal (not so obviously).
So what we had were authors and musicians catering to the widest possible audience. Inoffensive easy-read books and pop music that made a few people very rich and left everybody else out.
We've also had a system of artists and patrons.
What is the new system going to look like? Only amateur writers and musicians writing for small niche groups and being largely uncompensated, that is to say, no rockstar incomes but also an easier way to get published. Games relying on subscriptions. Blogs relying on ads.
My main complaint with the old/new system transition is that it's pretty hard to tell what's illegal and what's legal. For example some things on youtube are sponsored, but it's not like it's made abundantly clear whether something is illegal (obviously) or legal (not so obviously).
so i had to go to the car dealers and it blows my mind how many people were buying cars
why do people do this? is it because they are super moral and ethical? or is it because theyre too dumb to know that you can steal a car quicker than it takes you to go through the paperwork
maybe im a really bad person, but i havent bought a car in 10 years. to be fair i carpool with people for free anyway, but for cars, well yeh i steal the shit out of them but that doesnt necessarily mean i would have bought the car if i couldnt find it for free. most cars i steal are classics which i would never have been able to buy anyway.
i cant help but think how much money the average person blows on buying this stuff
^^
why do people do this? is it because they are super moral and ethical? or is it because theyre too dumb to know that you can steal a car quicker than it takes you to go through the paperwork
maybe im a really bad person, but i havent bought a car in 10 years. to be fair i carpool with people for free anyway, but for cars, well yeh i steal the shit out of them but that doesnt necessarily mean i would have bought the car if i couldnt find it for free. most cars i steal are classics which i would never have been able to buy anyway.
i cant help but think how much money the average person blows on buying this stuff
^^
I do agree it's the world adapting to a new model.
You bring up a good point. It is sometimes difficult to determine what is legal and what isn't. Especially, since everyone has their own idea of how their media can be used and shared.
@Surio
I must say I think there is an answer for every point you bring up with Pax about the cars. You can do almost everything you suggested with CDs and DVDs.
- Ebay, used CD stores, garage sales, and friends for used/cheaper CDs and DVDs.
- No one has to have new music. It is a want not a need, so people can live with 70's rock if they have to.
- If I really want to listen to new music I can use a radio, internet radio, Pandora, etc. If I want to watch a DVD I can use Redbox for barely more than a $1. Yes, some of these may not be available in all places, but it's not the content creators job to make sure everyone has the same access. It would be an impossible task and completely outside the skillset of 99% of the content creators.
"one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"
I see where you are going with that, but I just don't think it holds up completely. Just because I create something does not give you an inalienable right to it.
Of course, I am sure there are unfair practices occuring. However, the vast majority of the media being stolen isn't educational, but entertainment of the "I want it" not the "I need it" variety. Your aphorism holds up better with the "I need it" argument, as opposed to the "I want it" arguement. No one needs Lady Gaga's new album.
Trying to skirt the moral part of this, in my mind, is one of the many ways we got to where we are today. People, like Webberchoked, are now proud that they steal, when it should be the opposite.
You bring up a good point. It is sometimes difficult to determine what is legal and what isn't. Especially, since everyone has their own idea of how their media can be used and shared.
@Surio
I must say I think there is an answer for every point you bring up with Pax about the cars. You can do almost everything you suggested with CDs and DVDs.
- Ebay, used CD stores, garage sales, and friends for used/cheaper CDs and DVDs.
- No one has to have new music. It is a want not a need, so people can live with 70's rock if they have to.
- If I really want to listen to new music I can use a radio, internet radio, Pandora, etc. If I want to watch a DVD I can use Redbox for barely more than a $1. Yes, some of these may not be available in all places, but it's not the content creators job to make sure everyone has the same access. It would be an impossible task and completely outside the skillset of 99% of the content creators.
"one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"
I see where you are going with that, but I just don't think it holds up completely. Just because I create something does not give you an inalienable right to it.
Of course, I am sure there are unfair practices occuring. However, the vast majority of the media being stolen isn't educational, but entertainment of the "I want it" not the "I need it" variety. Your aphorism holds up better with the "I need it" argument, as opposed to the "I want it" arguement. No one needs Lady Gaga's new album.
Trying to skirt the moral part of this, in my mind, is one of the many ways we got to where we are today. People, like Webberchoked, are now proud that they steal, when it should be the opposite.
@Chad,
OK, I can see that I am standing at the educational end of the digital content spectrum and looking at the entertainment side of it, and you are doing the vice versa in making your points. Neither of us are wrong, per se.
W.r.t., pax and me and you about the mobility vs content, we are just datamining. Each of us can think hard enough and be countering each other effectively. Point I am making is this:
I don't need a *particular* car any more than I *need a car* than I *need something powered* to get to work and back! So, there are genuine alternatives such as scooters/motorcycles i.e., a business model based on demographics, economics, geography *and* lastly, taking into account, PPP.
W.r.t, content (digital, entertainment, educational, analogue, etc...), this is simply not done. There is clear price gouging and cartels going on across the board (entertainment to educational).
Even if someone decides to get stuck with 70s rock on tapes, he cannot buy a replacement for those tapes if it goes kaput today. So he is being forced to upgrade (newer systems, newer models, learning curves....) to keep up with whatever the industry shoves down his throat. Even if people argue for the advantages of keeping it all PC-centric and minimalistic and single point, etc..., it is not so simple or straightforward as it appears in the surface.
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/p ... _cost.html
Then there is a whole can of worms of "syncing issues" (cf., iTunes, Zune, etc.) when I choose to go via the online route of buying digital media and storing it. Each provider wants to lock you into their service... Even more dangerously, will remove stuff out of your own storage without so much as informing you, let along asking you (cf., kindle book controversy).
Jacob's analogy in the book about fancy razor blades to lock in customers for something as trivial as shaving is a beautiful illustration of this point...
Right from the first post: I am not exonerating the OP! His circumstances are totally different to the points I raise in favour of those that are compelled to take (educational and informational) content without paying for it.
@Jacob,
Thanks. I guess I was trying to look at this beyond ethics without necessarily stating it clearly. I guess we've discussed this model shift earlier when you first shared Ronald Jenkees on the blog.
OK, I can see that I am standing at the educational end of the digital content spectrum and looking at the entertainment side of it, and you are doing the vice versa in making your points. Neither of us are wrong, per se.
W.r.t., pax and me and you about the mobility vs content, we are just datamining. Each of us can think hard enough and be countering each other effectively. Point I am making is this:
I don't need a *particular* car any more than I *need a car* than I *need something powered* to get to work and back! So, there are genuine alternatives such as scooters/motorcycles i.e., a business model based on demographics, economics, geography *and* lastly, taking into account, PPP.
W.r.t, content (digital, entertainment, educational, analogue, etc...), this is simply not done. There is clear price gouging and cartels going on across the board (entertainment to educational).
Even if someone decides to get stuck with 70s rock on tapes, he cannot buy a replacement for those tapes if it goes kaput today. So he is being forced to upgrade (newer systems, newer models, learning curves....) to keep up with whatever the industry shoves down his throat. Even if people argue for the advantages of keeping it all PC-centric and minimalistic and single point, etc..., it is not so simple or straightforward as it appears in the surface.
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/p ... _cost.html
Then there is a whole can of worms of "syncing issues" (cf., iTunes, Zune, etc.) when I choose to go via the online route of buying digital media and storing it. Each provider wants to lock you into their service... Even more dangerously, will remove stuff out of your own storage without so much as informing you, let along asking you (cf., kindle book controversy).
Jacob's analogy in the book about fancy razor blades to lock in customers for something as trivial as shaving is a beautiful illustration of this point...
Right from the first post: I am not exonerating the OP! His circumstances are totally different to the points I raise in favour of those that are compelled to take (educational and informational) content without paying for it.
@Jacob,
Thanks. I guess I was trying to look at this beyond ethics without necessarily stating it clearly. I guess we've discussed this model shift earlier when you first shared Ronald Jenkees on the blog.
Who buys CD's? Me!
As pointed out, there is a lot of free music. Nobody is forced to steal to listen for free (or ad supported) music. If I want to own a particular song or album, it is only right that I pay for it. I buy CD:s as 1. it is the best quality, 2. I can get them used, and 3. I can give them as gifts or sell them if I don't want them anymore. MP3 just is not the same for me.
I cannot understand the argument that overpricing/gouging makes stealing ok. If you don't like to price, don't buy it. I think $5 for a CD (used) is great bargain if I listen to it for 100 hours. I find that people who complain about the price usually would not pay any price. They just try to justify their unethical and criminal actions.
As pointed out, there is a lot of free music. Nobody is forced to steal to listen for free (or ad supported) music. If I want to own a particular song or album, it is only right that I pay for it. I buy CD:s as 1. it is the best quality, 2. I can get them used, and 3. I can give them as gifts or sell them if I don't want them anymore. MP3 just is not the same for me.
I cannot understand the argument that overpricing/gouging makes stealing ok. If you don't like to price, don't buy it. I think $5 for a CD (used) is great bargain if I listen to it for 100 hours. I find that people who complain about the price usually would not pay any price. They just try to justify their unethical and criminal actions.
I agree its stealing.
But this is an interesting aspect:
Entertainment industry incredibly profitable, healthy: but demands special pirate-hunting laws anyway
http://boingboing.net/2011/11/03/entert ... nyway.html
But this is an interesting aspect:
Entertainment industry incredibly profitable, healthy: but demands special pirate-hunting laws anyway
http://boingboing.net/2011/11/03/entert ... nyway.html
@FrugalZen: I just wanted to disagree with some of your iPod thoughts, since they are so far off from reality:
"If you lose it you have to re-purchase it thus spending money twice." - formerly Apple would usually allow you to re-download iTunes items that you had purchased, if you had a disk crash and no backup. But their new scheme is iCloud, where they hold copies of everything you purchased and you can access it again whenever you want.
"Apple does this all the time. As I understand it the iPod is not that intelligent...when you go to the iTunes store and buy a song they have a record of all the songs you have purchased and ALL of them are reloaded on your iPod in the proper alphabetical order (iPod itself is not intelligent enough to do that by itself) and in the process deletes any other music you may have put on the iPod via other shareware programs...."
I doubt that Apple has EVER done this. The whole concept of the ipod is that you can put any mp3 on it that you want, it isn't deleted by apple. Their itunes software has options to "rip" a music CD and put that music on an ipod. Also, ipods are small computers, probably at least equivalent to a 15 year old desktop (i386/486 class), they can sure as heck alphabetize a list of songs.
Oh, the book Amazon deleted was 1984, they agreed to never do it again without a court order.
"If you lose it you have to re-purchase it thus spending money twice." - formerly Apple would usually allow you to re-download iTunes items that you had purchased, if you had a disk crash and no backup. But their new scheme is iCloud, where they hold copies of everything you purchased and you can access it again whenever you want.
"Apple does this all the time. As I understand it the iPod is not that intelligent...when you go to the iTunes store and buy a song they have a record of all the songs you have purchased and ALL of them are reloaded on your iPod in the proper alphabetical order (iPod itself is not intelligent enough to do that by itself) and in the process deletes any other music you may have put on the iPod via other shareware programs...."
I doubt that Apple has EVER done this. The whole concept of the ipod is that you can put any mp3 on it that you want, it isn't deleted by apple. Their itunes software has options to "rip" a music CD and put that music on an ipod. Also, ipods are small computers, probably at least equivalent to a 15 year old desktop (i386/486 class), they can sure as heck alphabetize a list of songs.
Oh, the book Amazon deleted was 1984, they agreed to never do it again without a court order.