Good idea, but unfortunately that does seem to violate most contracts for office space. I guess it depends on on if I can get away with it without being caught. I'll look into it.Generation-X wrote:I guess it would depend on being able to find what's available in your area, but how about crashing at an office space you rent?
This will be my second year in doing so, at $350 per month which includes all utilities except it doesn't come with a shower - I believe some office spaces DO come with shower facility.
Average rent around my area has risen dramatically in the last year or so, to around $700 - $800 per month, excluding utility.
Maybe worth a try.
Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
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Generation-X
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Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
So is van-dwelling but people do it anyways. 
Even the landlord of the commercial property has to answer to the almighty mortgage payments. Talk to them.
Life is a gigantic grey area.
Even the landlord of the commercial property has to answer to the almighty mortgage payments. Talk to them.
Life is a gigantic grey area.
Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
What are some of the more cost-effective solutions for accommodation for a family with kids which allow daily commute to downtown SF? Rents here seem ridiculous compared to Houston - pretty much at least $3000-3500 a month for a 1BR in a safe neighborhood within city limits, which goes down to $2500 (+$200 for BART) at best in the safer surrounding towns (Northern Berkeley, Orinda). Only places I see cheaper are somewhere like Oakland which is not a place I would take family to.
Am I missing something or is $2500 really the lowest I can get for a safe place within an hour of downtown SF?
Am I missing something or is $2500 really the lowest I can get for a safe place within an hour of downtown SF?
Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
You could try looking at El Cerrito, San Leandro, Pleasant Hill, Walnut Creek, Hayward, or Concord. But if you're interested in conventional housing (e.g., renting a 2-bedroom apartment or a house), it will be difficult to find decent options for much less than $2,500.
Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
Thanks. We are looking into some of these.
What do you mean by "unconventional housing"? I am pretty open minded as long as safety is in place and basic infrastructure (e.g., grocery store, playground) can be reached in a cost-effective manner.
What do you mean by "unconventional housing"? I am pretty open minded as long as safety is in place and basic infrastructure (e.g., grocery store, playground) can be reached in a cost-effective manner.
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jacob
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Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
@NPV - It really depends on what you mean by "safe" as I've noticed that e.g. urbanites and suburbanites seem to have wildly differing opinions on what is safe (see any "safety" related question on city-data.com's forums). Do you mean safe as in "won't get shot or burglarized" or safe as in "nobody around from a different social class" or safe as Agrestic, CA?
For big cities, sweeping statements don't apply. What generally holds is that some neighbourhoods are almost always unsafe, some are unsafe at the wrong time of the day, some are unsafe if you have the wrong skin color, some are unsafe if you're oblivious/stupid (waving a $500 phone around or leaving your bike unlocked), and some are almost always safe.
In any case, here's a map http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Oakla ... nia/crime/
Step 1) Zoom out to cover the whole area.
Step 2) Draw the 1 hour range.
Step 3) Use craigslist to scan for places.
For each 1M you go east, the temperature tends to be 1/2 F higher. Or rougher guide, for each major city, add 10F. If it's 80F in SF, it'll be 110F in Tracy.
Are you commuting via car or BART? Rush hour on I-580 is atrocious (av freeway speed ~15mph). By car there's also Sausalito/Marin County. Home of Starfleet HQ and a host (ha!) of anti-vaxxers (good place to catch the measles) but otherwise really nice and expensive.
OTOH there are a bunch of mobile home parks in Hayward right next to the BART line for <$1000/month. ($800 when we checked in 2011). Wrt parks, same rule applies as to neighbourhoods. Some are really nice, some are run down.
For big cities, sweeping statements don't apply. What generally holds is that some neighbourhoods are almost always unsafe, some are unsafe at the wrong time of the day, some are unsafe if you have the wrong skin color, some are unsafe if you're oblivious/stupid (waving a $500 phone around or leaving your bike unlocked), and some are almost always safe.
In any case, here's a map http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Oakla ... nia/crime/
Step 1) Zoom out to cover the whole area.
Step 2) Draw the 1 hour range.
Step 3) Use craigslist to scan for places.
For each 1M you go east, the temperature tends to be 1/2 F higher. Or rougher guide, for each major city, add 10F. If it's 80F in SF, it'll be 110F in Tracy.
Are you commuting via car or BART? Rush hour on I-580 is atrocious (av freeway speed ~15mph). By car there's also Sausalito/Marin County. Home of Starfleet HQ and a host (ha!) of anti-vaxxers (good place to catch the measles) but otherwise really nice and expensive.
OTOH there are a bunch of mobile home parks in Hayward right next to the BART line for <$1000/month. ($800 when we checked in 2011). Wrt parks, same rule applies as to neighbourhoods. Some are really nice, some are run down.
Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
@NPV: By "conventional" housing, I was talking about renting regular housing, like an apartment or single family home. If you put your mind to it, I'm sure you could find cheaper alternatives, like living in an RV or a tent, but it would probably be difficult with a family.
Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
to add on unconventional housing, how about a yurt?
There are tons of cool videos on youtube.I saw one video about a guy renting someone's backyard to set up his yurt, and that was in Portland. But I think the bay area has the right climate for it as well.
Another friend of mine is running airbnb from her house and charges $54 a night for a room near Richmond Bart station. The income alone pays her mortgage. Her room is fully booked for July and August and she said that was not much work to run it neither.
On a separate note, it looks like we have quite a few members in SF bay area, anyone interested for a meetup?
There are tons of cool videos on youtube.I saw one video about a guy renting someone's backyard to set up his yurt, and that was in Portland. But I think the bay area has the right climate for it as well.
Another friend of mine is running airbnb from her house and charges $54 a night for a room near Richmond Bart station. The income alone pays her mortgage. Her room is fully booked for July and August and she said that was not much work to run it neither.
On a separate note, it looks like we have quite a few members in SF bay area, anyone interested for a meetup?
Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
@Altoid: I might be up for a meetup, depending on the location.
Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
@Jacob: thanks for your input. In regard of the definition of safety, I think per your proposed definition, the ones I am looking for are in the "almost always safe" category. I don't mind at all which social class people around me belong to as long as it does not impact safety - e.g., both poor and rich people are fine with me as long as the poor are not gang members and the rich are not their bosses, but are instead, respectively, e.g., blue collar workers / farmers / retirees and bankers. My kids are quite young so I don't need to worry about quality of schools at this point.
When I look at this crime map of Oakland (and no less importantly, having walked around Oakland), I definitely see it as a place to be avoided. http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/oakland/crime/
Orinda, on the other hand, (or at least the part I have seen within a mile or two from BART) looks like a small rural paradise to me, very clean and green and friendly. Northern Berkeley looks absolutely amazing, even more clean with a very friendly and slightly hippie-ish vibe which comes with being a university town.
I commute by BART as it seems more cost-effective and I prefer the asset light model of not owning a vehicle, and don't enjoy driving. That said, I am open on that and would look into buying a car (or a motorcycle) if the savings from the location reachable by personal transport outweigh total cost of ownership of the vehicle, which does not seem likely when I think about parking and gas prices in SF on top of the actual vehicle cost, insurance etc. I could definitely get a bicycle or run, e.g., to get to BART faster is it is more than a mile away.
Temperature is not an issue for me really, I like warm/hot weather and SF if anything is a bit cold for me.
@llorona, altoid: Yurt is an interesting idea, might look into it if I stay here longer term. Right now I am looking for accommodation for a couple months.
And yes, happy to participate in a meetup in SF.
When I look at this crime map of Oakland (and no less importantly, having walked around Oakland), I definitely see it as a place to be avoided. http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/oakland/crime/
Orinda, on the other hand, (or at least the part I have seen within a mile or two from BART) looks like a small rural paradise to me, very clean and green and friendly. Northern Berkeley looks absolutely amazing, even more clean with a very friendly and slightly hippie-ish vibe which comes with being a university town.
I commute by BART as it seems more cost-effective and I prefer the asset light model of not owning a vehicle, and don't enjoy driving. That said, I am open on that and would look into buying a car (or a motorcycle) if the savings from the location reachable by personal transport outweigh total cost of ownership of the vehicle, which does not seem likely when I think about parking and gas prices in SF on top of the actual vehicle cost, insurance etc. I could definitely get a bicycle or run, e.g., to get to BART faster is it is more than a mile away.
Temperature is not an issue for me really, I like warm/hot weather and SF if anything is a bit cold for me.
@llorona, altoid: Yurt is an interesting idea, might look into it if I stay here longer term. Right now I am looking for accommodation for a couple months.
And yes, happy to participate in a meetup in SF.
Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
I'd be up for meeting with some folks in the area.
@NPV if the bay area keeps attracting more and more high earners, it's inevitable that Oakland will not look the same in even a couple years. But it's a big gamble (for me at least) to predict such continuous growth (like Nasdaq). It's why I went with a van instead of renting or buying.. Maybe I'll be kicking myself in 5-10 years.
@NPV if the bay area keeps attracting more and more high earners, it's inevitable that Oakland will not look the same in even a couple years. But it's a big gamble (for me at least) to predict such continuous growth (like Nasdaq). It's why I went with a van instead of renting or buying.. Maybe I'll be kicking myself in 5-10 years.
Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
Yeah, the crime's so bad in downtown Oakland, it can be hard to find parking:
(to be fair, when I took this picture just three blocks to the north there was a happy little farmers market with people strolling, free live band w/ serious chops & bunches of kids milling around eating strawberries, so, ymmv. anyway, if you're liking N. Berkeley, you might find some suitable & slightly less ridiculously-unaffordable parts around the northern outlying neighborhoods of Oakland. wishing you luck in your search.)
(to be fair, when I took this picture just three blocks to the north there was a happy little farmers market with people strolling, free live band w/ serious chops & bunches of kids milling around eating strawberries, so, ymmv. anyway, if you're liking N. Berkeley, you might find some suitable & slightly less ridiculously-unaffordable parts around the northern outlying neighborhoods of Oakland. wishing you luck in your search.)
Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
Been biking around Oakland (north/south of downtown) the past two days and hanging out at various spots... Really I quite like it.. Regardless of price I would move here over anywhere except maybe SF or if I had kids Berkeley. Considering the cost, Oakland seems like a big win.
The amount of free fun this weekend in the "east bay express" weekly surpasses SF, for example. I've heard in the past five years all the creative types without golden handcuffs (rent controlled apartment in sf) pick Oakland if they get priced out of SF.
Plenty of parking for my van. Maybe I'll make it my new hood. Maybe start checking home prices in a few neighborhoods..
The amount of free fun this weekend in the "east bay express" weekly surpasses SF, for example. I've heard in the past five years all the creative types without golden handcuffs (rent controlled apartment in sf) pick Oakland if they get priced out of SF.
Plenty of parking for my van. Maybe I'll make it my new hood. Maybe start checking home prices in a few neighborhoods..
Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
Has anyone tried living in a car?
I have access to showers and locker at work, free food at work, and have a car that I think I could sleep in if I lay the back seats down.
The problem, as I see it, is where do I park the thing when I'm sleeping? In working 2 jobs, both of which require a car, I have Saturday mornings off and Tues/Thurs evenings off. Otherwise I'm working or sleeping, so I won't have to figure out where to just "be" too often.
Just where to sleep. Any ideas?
I have access to showers and locker at work, free food at work, and have a car that I think I could sleep in if I lay the back seats down.
The problem, as I see it, is where do I park the thing when I'm sleeping? In working 2 jobs, both of which require a car, I have Saturday mornings off and Tues/Thurs evenings off. Otherwise I'm working or sleeping, so I won't have to figure out where to just "be" too often.
Just where to sleep. Any ideas?
Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
Great Thread!
I was going to make a carbon copy of this thread before I saw it! I've followed this blog for years but never got around to making an account.
I am moving to San Francisco too from Boston. I lived three streets from Harvard Yard and rented in a furnished duplex for $2500 a month including utilities (given the state of the apartment it should have been $3500 a month but it was a professor on sabbatical listing it). It had 2.5 bedrooms which I rented out and after taxes and expenses I netted $650 a month living the closest I ever had to my office!
I am thinking of doing the same in San Francisco. I actually like having roommates as I'm generally a loner and it helps to sometimes talk to like minded individuals without the stress of a romantic relationship.
Has anyone done this before? I'm happy even living on the outskirts of San Francisco but I assume it'll be harder to short term rent my place, especially on airbnb.
Are there other unique ways to get a space in San Francisco with a livable kitchen and private toilet and shower under $1k a month? Any chance of living on a boat in SF or something similar, although that would mean no roommates?...
One more thing, I am hoping to have a basement or garage or I'd like to rent space in a wood/metal workshop, does that happen in San Francisco? In Cambridge we have Artisian Asylum that rents work space cheaply (especially to students).
My income is 210K from my job and my Monthly expense breakdown is:
$600 for local healthy food
$20 bike repairs (flats or tires mainly)
$100 eat out once per week, i.e., $25 each week
$50 ad hoc women expenses (paying for their food, random entertainment)
$600 travel expenses (so I can retain AA EXP status and then I sell the perks to people or trade on flyertalk to fund my vacations) NB this includes my fees when I go places as well
$30 gym fees (not sure how that will change in SF) (80% paid back by insurance company)
$60 car insurance for my 2007 Audi A4 wagon (at least its a wagon!)
$30-50 on gas
$120 public transit
$50 cabs when necessary (idk if SF is more expensive for a cab/Uber than Boston but due to my health condition sometimes I need a ride home; this won't change)
$100 clothing budget (I've lost a lot of weight recently after a surgery so instead of making one large payment I've been getting clothes every month up to $100, usually from eBay). This expense should cease in 1 year.
$80 monthly health insurance
$150 copays for medicine and cost of one Medicine compounded for me (this may go up depending on next health plan and there's no way to stop taking this specific Medicine)
$40 monthly savings for holidays and birthdays of family members that expect gifts
$8 Usenet subscription
$100 internet (hopefully there's fios in SF!)
$100 wood costs to build furniture
$30 server fees for AWS et al
$250 scholarship fund
I could probably get my food costs down but I don't want to change the type of food I eat and I don't have time to work more with a CSA to get a discount. I don't drink so that's a huge money saver.
I have no debts and no children. I have a small scholarship fund I setup for disadvantaged kids in trouble with the law to go take up a trade school program, everything else that is leftover is invested in various Vanguard index funds (I tried a three year experiment trying to buy value stocks, the first two years I did well and beat the SP500, the third year was a collasal failure. I told myself I would not play stocks if I didn't do well each year independent of the market). In the next ten years, I will be giving my mother money to survive but I'm not there yet.
I have no assets other than my car ($7500), computer stuff ($3500 between my laptop, 4k monitors and server), an old LCD TV ($200), soundbar (value $300), a camera and lenses (value $400) a Turner mountain bike (fair value $1800), wood working tools (mainly bought used $1300), road bike ($1500) and a city bike that I won't cry over if it's stolen ($500).
I try to live a rather minimalistic lifestyle and not buy crap but sometimes it happens. I actually really enjoy flying and I know $7200 a year is a ton for entertainment and vacations; I could reduce it to $400 a month if I got creative. I could also start selling AA or UA miles (I have 3M UA miles and 950K AA sitting in my account) to help offset my desire to fly and travel.
The reason I hold onto my car is besides that I love to drive on country roads, I would have very few opportunities to get to the mountains to mountain bike...
I've done the math and the health plan I have now is best for the medicines I need to live (I take an obscenely expensive clotting medicine as I have a genetic clotting disorder, so me only paying 1/3 the cost of a yearl script is a deal, I think, or at least that is how I look at it when I'm annoyed with spending that money), so unfortunately that expense cannot go down. I cannot get life insurance at a normal rate due to my clotting disorder.
I like what I do and I have a number in mind when I will retire; I have enough saved I could retire now but for the time being, I like what I'm doing every day. And I think I'll like it even more when I'm in San Francisco!
All I hear is how very expensive SF is and it has kept me from moving there for a long time (not that Boston is cheap)! I hope I can move there by October! Thanks for your help!
I was going to make a carbon copy of this thread before I saw it! I've followed this blog for years but never got around to making an account.
I am moving to San Francisco too from Boston. I lived three streets from Harvard Yard and rented in a furnished duplex for $2500 a month including utilities (given the state of the apartment it should have been $3500 a month but it was a professor on sabbatical listing it). It had 2.5 bedrooms which I rented out and after taxes and expenses I netted $650 a month living the closest I ever had to my office!
I am thinking of doing the same in San Francisco. I actually like having roommates as I'm generally a loner and it helps to sometimes talk to like minded individuals without the stress of a romantic relationship.
Has anyone done this before? I'm happy even living on the outskirts of San Francisco but I assume it'll be harder to short term rent my place, especially on airbnb.
Are there other unique ways to get a space in San Francisco with a livable kitchen and private toilet and shower under $1k a month? Any chance of living on a boat in SF or something similar, although that would mean no roommates?...
One more thing, I am hoping to have a basement or garage or I'd like to rent space in a wood/metal workshop, does that happen in San Francisco? In Cambridge we have Artisian Asylum that rents work space cheaply (especially to students).
My income is 210K from my job and my Monthly expense breakdown is:
$600 for local healthy food
$20 bike repairs (flats or tires mainly)
$100 eat out once per week, i.e., $25 each week
$50 ad hoc women expenses (paying for their food, random entertainment)
$600 travel expenses (so I can retain AA EXP status and then I sell the perks to people or trade on flyertalk to fund my vacations) NB this includes my fees when I go places as well
$30 gym fees (not sure how that will change in SF) (80% paid back by insurance company)
$60 car insurance for my 2007 Audi A4 wagon (at least its a wagon!)
$30-50 on gas
$120 public transit
$50 cabs when necessary (idk if SF is more expensive for a cab/Uber than Boston but due to my health condition sometimes I need a ride home; this won't change)
$100 clothing budget (I've lost a lot of weight recently after a surgery so instead of making one large payment I've been getting clothes every month up to $100, usually from eBay). This expense should cease in 1 year.
$80 monthly health insurance
$150 copays for medicine and cost of one Medicine compounded for me (this may go up depending on next health plan and there's no way to stop taking this specific Medicine)
$40 monthly savings for holidays and birthdays of family members that expect gifts
$8 Usenet subscription
$100 internet (hopefully there's fios in SF!)
$100 wood costs to build furniture
$30 server fees for AWS et al
$250 scholarship fund
I could probably get my food costs down but I don't want to change the type of food I eat and I don't have time to work more with a CSA to get a discount. I don't drink so that's a huge money saver.
I have no debts and no children. I have a small scholarship fund I setup for disadvantaged kids in trouble with the law to go take up a trade school program, everything else that is leftover is invested in various Vanguard index funds (I tried a three year experiment trying to buy value stocks, the first two years I did well and beat the SP500, the third year was a collasal failure. I told myself I would not play stocks if I didn't do well each year independent of the market). In the next ten years, I will be giving my mother money to survive but I'm not there yet.
I have no assets other than my car ($7500), computer stuff ($3500 between my laptop, 4k monitors and server), an old LCD TV ($200), soundbar (value $300), a camera and lenses (value $400) a Turner mountain bike (fair value $1800), wood working tools (mainly bought used $1300), road bike ($1500) and a city bike that I won't cry over if it's stolen ($500).
I try to live a rather minimalistic lifestyle and not buy crap but sometimes it happens. I actually really enjoy flying and I know $7200 a year is a ton for entertainment and vacations; I could reduce it to $400 a month if I got creative. I could also start selling AA or UA miles (I have 3M UA miles and 950K AA sitting in my account) to help offset my desire to fly and travel.
The reason I hold onto my car is besides that I love to drive on country roads, I would have very few opportunities to get to the mountains to mountain bike...
I've done the math and the health plan I have now is best for the medicines I need to live (I take an obscenely expensive clotting medicine as I have a genetic clotting disorder, so me only paying 1/3 the cost of a yearl script is a deal, I think, or at least that is how I look at it when I'm annoyed with spending that money), so unfortunately that expense cannot go down. I cannot get life insurance at a normal rate due to my clotting disorder.
I like what I do and I have a number in mind when I will retire; I have enough saved I could retire now but for the time being, I like what I'm doing every day. And I think I'll like it even more when I'm in San Francisco!
All I hear is how very expensive SF is and it has kept me from moving there for a long time (not that Boston is cheap)! I hope I can move there by October! Thanks for your help!
Last edited by Jehdlh on Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
Hey! Can you tell me more about your can life? I am very interested. Any issues finding a place to park overnight? How often do you move? I actually like building things so this could be fun and I was thinking about trying this when I move to SF this fall but I'm a bit hesitant!bryan wrote:I'd be up for meeting with some folks in the area.
@NPV if the bay area keeps attracting more and more high earners, it's inevitable that Oakland will not look the same in even a couple years. But it's a big gamble (for me at least) to predict such continuous growth (like Nasdaq). It's why I went with a van instead of renting or buying.. Maybe I'll be kicking myself in 5-10 years.
Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
Hey Jehdlh:
Good luck with the move!
There aren't any true "outskirts" in San Francisco. The city itself is 49 square miles with water on three sides so it's densely packed; however, there are less populated neighborhoods (i.e. Sunset, Richmond, Excelsior) that mainly consist of single-family homes or flats/duplexes. Once you leave SF, there are plenty of smaller (and cheaper) cities and suburbs to choose from, although commuting into the city can be time consuming.I'm happy even living on the outskirts of San Francisco...
Not that I can think of, but maybe folks on this forum have ideas? I don't think living on a boat would be cost-effective. I'm guessing that docking fees alone run $600+ per month. You could explore the idea of living in a youth hostel, although it wouldn't meet your qualifications for privacy. Or maybe you could try house sitting. But unless you want to get super-creative, finding a shared apartment is probably the best way to go.Are there other unique ways to get a space in San Francisco with a livable kitchen and private toilet and shower under $1k a month?
Virtually no houses in San Francisco have basements. Parking is generally a pain, so people with garages tend to either park their own cars there or rent them out for quite a bit of money. But you never know. You might get lucky, particularly if you rent an entire house and sublease rooms to roommates.I am hoping to have a basement or garage or I'd like to rent space in a wood/metal workshop, does that happen in San Francisco?
Depending on where you end up living, owning a car in San Francisco may be more of a liability than an asset. Except for Marin County, there are no country roads for 40-50 miles around. If I lived in the city, I would ditch the car and use ZipCar for getting out of town.The reason I hold onto my car is besides that I love to drive on country roads, I would have very few opportunities to get to the mountains to mountain bike...
Good luck with the move!
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jacob
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Re: Living in SF Bay Area (SJ) – how can I cut housing costs?
A boat would be about as cost effective as an RV. When I last checked (about 5 years ago), you could dock a 30' boat (very often depends on length) in Berkeley for $200 per month. Add the liveaboard fee of another $200/month. However, there was a 2+ year waiting list! Prices on the west side in the South Bay were about the same.