dating ERE

[itsagreatday]

43yo FIREd woman here...
Of course I love keeping expenses down, even when it's not strictly necessary. One big expense cutter is that I live in a roommate situation with an elderly lady. I help her out in exchange for living there rent-free. I drive an older car with some minor esthetic damage that I don't feel compelled to fix. When dating, I wonder how I am perceived: jobless, homeless and poor? Normally, I don't mind this perception but I don't want a guy looking down on me, disrespecting me, thinking he can "buy" me or that I'm looking for a sugar-daddy. I could play up the FI side but that feels dangerous too. Thing is, like others of you, I'm both "rich" (in terms of net worth) and "poor" (in terms of income). The last guy I dated was embarrassed because of my car (which really isn't that bad) but he was concerned about perception/image much more than I am. I really wonder if I've made so many non-mainstream lifestyle choices (not just ERE) that I'll ever find the match I want. I may end up working again, for non-financial reasons, such a being perceived as more "normal"...

[TopHatFox]

I've been enjoying a deeply loving & ERE minded long-distance polyamorous relationship with my primary partner for 7 months now.

My primary partner and I also enjoy spending time with one secondary partner each, who are mostly physical interactions at this point, though if emotional attachment developed, that's acceptable as well, and can be communicated through.

My primary partner and I found one another through environmental social justice work, aimed at young people. This venue, and others like it--for instance, permaculture work shops, resilience lectures, homestead workshops, tiny house builds, and similar events--seem to be great places to look for an ERE mate.

[sterlingarcher]

So you are basically in an open relationship. I'm curious about those because I never witnessed a lasting one, and I am myself at the end of a long-distance relationship. I hope I'm not derailing from the thread topic if I ask how you see the future with your primary partner? Do you expect to be each others primary partner indefinetely? Do you ever have jealousy/insecurity issues? Do you have any other issues that comes from long-distance or multiple partners?

[TopHatFox]

Hm, at the moment, I see my primary partner and I living in a city during our capital accumulation phase (now to 10 years), then building a tiny house in a small town or trying homesteading or something along those lines. The biggest difference in our plans is that she doesn't want to travel, and I do. Maybe our open relationship and long distance history will help us cross that bridge when we get there.

I love her like no other, and she loves me, but we like exploring a connection--physical or emotional--with a few other people too, because there's much to learn and enjoy in having a plurality of relationships, from our experience . The open part of our relationship originally developed from our long distance relationship, and it's made our long distance relationship more sustainable. I think two total partners is my personal limit in emotional or consistent physical partners though, otherwise it's too much time commitment.

I sometimes get sad or longing for a short while when I'm able to personally enjoy the company of my secondary partner but I can't do the same with my long-distance primary partner; before I met my secondary partner, I sometimes felt lonely since I wanted to embrace with my primary partner but couldn't. Logical thinking, time, and experience with these new emotions have allowed me to maintain my stoic joy even through intermittent loneliness and sadness.

While I don't experience jealousy when my primary partner is with another, my primary partner does experience jealousy when I am with another. She too has used logic, time, and experience with these new emotions to maintain her joy; we love one another and come back to eachother because of many many reasons, and we make sure to remind ourselves these reasons many times<3! (:

The main thing I love about all of my relationships--and arguably the factor that allows it all to work generally smoothly--is the level of honest, non-judgmental, consensual, and open communication between all involved.

[zfitter]

Any advice for a 30 year old guy looking for a lady who is into early retirement? I find that financial independence, minimalism, stoicism, self-reliance, etc. has really become my passion/obsession, but it doesn't make for great first date chat unless the girl is also into this stuff. But where to find such girls? I'm American, living in London, but planning a return to America. Any opinions as to the geographic area with the highest concentration of ladies with this outlook on life? Boulder/ Portland/ Austin/ San Fran - typical alternative lifestyle places? Anywhere else?

[stand@desk]

The reason to be in a relationship is that it is better than not being in one..can it really get to be as simple as that? I was idealistic in my 20s as well about not wanting to have children. But what if a great partner comes along and adds a lot of value to your life? As long as you are around a generally positive partner that encourages you, helps you grow, comforts you, loves you, trusts you, contributes not only financially but in many other areas..how can a reasonable person turn down a partner like this if the partner wants to have children? My wife and I have one on the way and I think our ERE-medium+ lifestyle can be maintained. An idealistic person thinks they can be in relationships without emotionally committing but ultimately I never found them to be too satisfying because they didn't encourage me to better myself. They encouraged me to be more into myself and that leads down a dead end road which lead me to disappointment. I thought if I could be in a relationship and leave when I wanted etc that would be ok and that may be ok in one's 20s but by the time you hit late 20s & 30s you realize staying in that space too long is juvenile and not fulfilling.

[Did]

I don't think I could have done it without my girl, now wife. ERE wasn't front of mind when I put feelers out there, but I did say I was looking for a fellow adventurer in life. I didn't talk about my career at all. Together you can do things - relish things - that would break you alone.

[slsdly]

zfitter: Take my advice with a grain of salt, given I am still single, younger than you and probably less experienced in dating, and it doesn't really answer your question... I also tend to be pretty upfront about ERE. It has been the first or second sentence (complete with a link to the wiki) on my dating profiles. But I try to emphasize the interests I have today rather than talk about a future which isn't here yet. If ERE comes up, I emphasis why I pursue it and the possibilities it grants rather than the details.

The last thing people want to hear is how great it is living below the poverty line, despite the fact such a discussion would excite many of us here . For the uninitiated, It is a lot to swallow and probably sets a red flag. But of more interest to others has been my pursuit of classical singing, my love for cooking, common taste in novels, etc. Sometimes it is just random on how you form a connection but you have to have other interests besides ERE to realize that.

For me I have had trouble with the fact I tend to think long term and live in the fantasy of the future. You have all of these great plans and the ability to execute on them. But how does this new person fit into all of that? I don't think people want to walk into a life that has already been defined for them, let alone hear about that on a first date. That may not be your intention but I could easily see it being interpreted as such. Rather we would want to grow, learn about and explore that possible future together over time.

Think of it this way: even if you wanted both children, wouldn't it be a little off putting for a first date to emphasize how important future kids are to them, suggested names, numbers and ordering, and how they would like to start on that sooner rather than later? I would have no problem discussing that, but if that's the dominant theme of the date, the only thing I learned is that she is single minded, obsessive, and probably crazy.

[Did]

@ slsdy, good advice. No girl* likes the idea of extreme survival on little money. Forget that. Focus on being interesting and cooking a nice meal say or otherwise impressing (make some effort with your clothes). Also treat the process as a problem to be solved. It's a numbers game, with each event having a low probability of success. Approach say 5000 people online. You will have 100 dates. 50 shags. 10 girlfriends. And if you are lucky, 1 wife.

How do you approach 5000 women online? You're a smart guy. Work it out. Tim Ferris, to prove a point, outsourced the approach. Cheap enough. Why not pay someone to send your profile, or wink, or whatnot, to 5000 women? Defer retirement enough to pay someone 5 bucks an hour to help you with this . What price, looove?

Sometimes you can also pay to SPAM women on those apps (blender and the like). Another option.

Or do it yourself methodically, say 30 a day.

(PS DO NOT waste time reading profiles - ie filtering before approaching. Filter AFTER the approach, when they come back to say they may be interested. You will go blind, waste time and feel sorry for yourself if you spend even a minute thinking about someone who hasn't gotten back to you. To repeat, approach everyone (who matches an automatic criteria the computer can sort by), then select from positive matches that come back to you).

The best part about the online approach is that you quickly become immune to rejection (online). This is hugely empowering. Don't have a few irons in the fire. Have hundreds of approaches/chats going online. Transition to phone txt (or whatever the kids use these days) quickly (can I have your number to chat some more as I'm not on here often) and a date quickly after that.

Think laterally..... Don't go on about living on 5k a year - she will think you insane, embarrassing and undesirable. Live an interesting life. Be bold with the ladies. Have at least 2 new dates a week until you find one you like hanging out with and who likes hanging out with you.

* Except anyone reading this..

[zfitter]

Thanks guys, very insightful and wise advice.

[slsdly]

@ Did: I agree with the numbers game bit although it makes me very sad to say so. I'm actually horrible at it. I can't bring myself to write one liner messages like "Hey." and spam them out. But as you say, the emotional toll for actually taking the time to consider each person's profile and write a handful of thoughtfully composed messages to those you find admirable only get to silence most of the time is, in a word, soul crushing . Okay maybe just really frustrating. Not to say that I have never been guilty of fading or ignoring myself. But while I dislike the dehumanization of the "process", I honestly have no better alternative...

Edit: Also the worst part of doing the above? Sometimes you get pity responses, although pity for herself or for you, I'm not sure which. Suffice to say, she isn't interested. But you were probably the only one who *didn't* write a one liner or send her a picture of your penis that day/week/month. As a bonus, it was even written properly in the Queen's English. And so she responds, but in reality has very little interest in meeting or continuing the discussion.

[C40]

I can't bring myself to write one liner messages like "Hey." and spam them out..

You have to spam out messages that are related to each profile. Like 2 sentences or 3 max. There's a skill to speed-reading a profile, finding something unique about it, and deciding what ask about it. I guess this is sort an online equivalent of being able to say something witty about your surroundings or situation to a person in real life - like, say Seinfeld always seemed to be able to do. Online, there is no surroundings or situation - so it's just about coming up with something related to their profile.. But it's not worth spending 5 minutes for each message you send.

[stand@desk]

My wife and I met online and the reason she sent me a message was because my profile was written in complete sentences without grammatical errors. She told me that was very important. I found most people don't take the time to put in enough effort to present themselves very well. And I did have a look at a few guys profiles and I think the key is to not present yourself like a narcissist.

[fiby41]

The reason to be in a relationship is that it is better than not being in one..

This is the reason consumers use for buying/subscribing into stuff they were doing good without for so long.

This is not a valid argument as I can also say "The reason to not be in a relationship is that it is better than being in one."

[jacob]

You have to spam out messages that are related to each profile. Like 2 sentences or 3 max. There's a skill to speed-reading a profile, finding something unique about it, and deciding what ask about it.

Haha! There's also a skill to speed-reading an email, deciding whether this is boilerplate spam with 2-3 "unique" sentences inserted, and then hitting delete. It's an evolutionary process of offense and defense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signaling_ ... ling_games

[Scrubby]

Haha! There's also a skill to speed-reading an email, deciding whether this is boilerplate spam with 2-3 "unique" sentences inserted, and then hitting delete. It's an evolutionary process of offense and defense.

Indeed. I sometimes read forums targeted at women to get a different perspective, and this is something they learn very quickly if they don't already do it intuitively. 7Wannabe5 wrote post about "what women want" here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5771&p=84698#p84698

With that in mind, I think that your chances increase significantly if you can convince the person that it's her you want to contact in particular. Of course, if you just want to get laid then using a wide net might be better, but if you're looking for someone to spend your life with then quantity over quality seems like a bad idea.

[DSKla]

Not sure how to find them, but it seems a lot of ERE people are INTJs. My girlfriend is one, and though I haven't yet made her read the book, I have had a lot of success in bringing her steadily in this direction. It appeals naturally to her. The catch is that INTJ females are the absolute rarest of the M-B types. Something like 0.1% of females. I'm sure other types work, too, though. It's impractical to carry around a test to give to people, but I meet a lot of like-minded people by--surprise--doing things that I enjoy, most of which are free. What kind of ERE activities would you like to do with your future partner? That might be a good place to start looking. And if you don't meet someone, you're still doing something that you find rewarding.

[reepicheep]

I'm definitely not INTJ and I'm way into this stuff. And also female. But taken!

[DSKla]

Yeah I didn't mean to imply all ERE girls are INTJ, just that a disproportionate number seem to be. Men, too.

[stand@desk]

@fiby41 Point well taken. A bit of a overly simplified generalization.. But I guess I meant to say the reason to be in a specific relationship is that it is better to be in it than not to be in it. And the reason to be friends with a specific person is because it adds more to your life than it takes away..something like that. And for me it is a visceral feeling of knowing this, and I am very aware of lifestyle inflation and time inflation so when you meet new people it comes at the risk of lifestyle and time inflation, what are you going to give up to spend time with a new person?