Global Population Issues

[Dragline]

It sounds like we just need to export the fat western dogs we've bred to feed the starving humans elsewhere.

Except for our fat chihuahua of course. She's special.

I feed the fat chihuahua and some of the hungry people in other countries. As I've repeatedly said: "DO BOTH!"

[Ego]

Immediate gratification vs. long-term thinking applies here. How do we ethically justify minimizing the immediate suffering while feeding much greater future suffering?

This was written back in the 1990s (I believe) and does a good job of outlining both side of the argument. The problems remain the same albeit with greater numbers of people.

http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/ ... unger.html

Also, I prefer the unfiltered version of Rigger because he tells it like he's experienced it (as opposed to having read it somewhere), which is an extremely valuable commodity.

[Ego]

It sounds like we just need to export the fat western dogs we've bred to feed the starving humans elsewhere.

Except for our fat chihuahua of course. She's special.

I feed the fat chihuahua and some of the hungry people in other countries. As I've repeatedly said: "DO BOTH!"

There are times when the "do both" advice sounds a lot like "have your cake and eat it too", or have your chihuahua and eat it too.

[Riggerjack]

So, have we turned 180 degrees, from:
"the problem is already too big to solve."
to:
"Fix your pets, and send dog food money to feed people"?

For what it's worth, I like my dog more than most people, and she seems to feel the same way. Although, that may say more about me than her.

Also, I prefer the unfiltered version of Rigger because he tells it like he's experienced it (as opposed to having read it somewhere), which is an extremely valuable commodity.

Thank you.

Although, I should point out, you have really only met the "kinder, gentler, riggerjack". I really do try to keep my words here civil, though direct enough to make my point.

My last boss marked me down on my review for "communicating too effectively." Different venues require different etiquette, and I am not very good at matching them up right... particularly after a few beers, as the mods can verify.

[jacob]

Technologically, most problems can be solved. For example, it's within our technological capability to stop all wars. Just stop pulling the trigger.

However, politically, culturally, and economically, most problems are practically impossible to solve.

[workathome]

If only we had some kind of shrink ray, we could just decrease everyone by 50% and - boom - double the food supply!

[7Wannabe5]

Here are some other possibilities:

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/ind ... at_19.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvn79E40VSc

Also, I am wondering if it is possible to harness my sister's 3 Australian Cattle dogs to a small plow so they can earn their keep? I am still debating whether or not to dig my new garden (might sheet mulch instead or both) but if I do, one advantage of feeding a couple human kids for a couple decades (and not even sending them off to work at the pickle factory at age 6!) is that occasionally you can call in the chips.

[Dragline]

Also, I am wondering if it is possible to harness my sister's 3 Australian Cattle dogs to a small plow so they can earn their keep? I am still debating whether or not to dig my new garden (might sheet mulch instead or both) but if I do, one advantage of feeding a couple human kids for a couple decades (and not even sending them off to work at the pickle factory at age 6!) is that occasionally you can call in the chips.

Man, those dogs would be pissed. They don't even like being on a lead, because their herding instinct is so strong they have to constantly circle whatever group of people or animals they are with.

We had one who thought I was another dog and everyone else in the family was livestock. In addition to herding everyone together, she would bring us presents like squirrel heads and live possums. Very smart dog, but also very neurotic. But with three of them, you could herd several hundred cows or sheep quite easily.

On the other hand, our chihuahua is as dumb as a stump, but would be quite happy pull a plow if she could and you put a picture of another non-chihuahua dog in front of her.

[7Wannabe5]

Dragline said: But with three of them, you could herd several hundred cows or sheep quite easily.

I can believe it. Right now their job is herding all the geese who are gathered on a fenced field by an abandoned industrial plant. The topic of this thread is rather ironic to me in some ways since I live in a city that is being depopulated and I am surrounded by the decay of structures that humans once made use of and maintained. Similar but different than the feeling I get when camping in the Upper Peninsula... "In the pines, in the pines, where the sun never shines, I will shiver the whole night through."

[Ego]

Solution Aversion (bias)

http://today.duke.edu/2014/11/solutionaversion

"We argue that the political divide over many issues is just that, it’s political," Campbell said. "These divides are not explained by just one party being more anti-science, but the fact that in general people deny facts that threaten their ideologies, left, right or center."

[Chad]

Solution Aversion (bias)

http://today.duke.edu/2014/11/solutionaversion

"We argue that the political divide over many issues is just that, it’s political," Campbell said. "These divides are not explained by just one party being more anti-science, but the fact that in general people deny facts that threaten their ideologies, left, right or center."

Sadly, it's true. I have found in personal conversations of this type with intelligent people, that stopping the conversation, which has turned into an argument, and revisiting the conversation at a quieter time in the near future works well to overcome ideologies. Of course, the key word there is intelligent.

[GandK]

Sadly, it's true. I have found in personal conversations of this type with intelligent people, that stopping the conversation, which has turned into an argument, and revisiting the conversation at a quieter time in the near future works well to overcome ideologies. Of course, the key word there is intelligent.

Agreed.

I would add, many political "differences" I've spotted are only about execution. I find that most people are in full agreement about what the problems are, and the place they reside on the political spectrum is less a reflection of their beliefs and more a reflection of their level of trust (or willingness to trust) in the government as a method/engine for solving those problems.

Further, the degree to which people are, in fact, in ideological disagreement is regularly blown way the hell out of proportion by the media and corporations to achieve their own ends.

[GandK]

"In the pines, in the pines, where the sun never shines, I will shiver the whole night through."

Agh! I now have that song stuck in my head!

[Dragline]

I thought this observation of the changing age distribution of the world population was interesting, especially the graphs:

http://www.economist.com/news/21631911- ... d-reshaped

It looks deflationary. I am guessing that Japan already looks like the graph on the right.

[jennypenny]

I thought this observation of the changing age distribution of the world population was interesting, especially the graphs:

http://www.economist.com/news/21631911- ... d-reshaped

It looks deflationary. I am guessing that Japan already looks like the graph on the right.

It's interesting that they are assuming the same sex ratio. Sex ratios are higher in countries currently experiencing exploding populations. They are also higher in Muslim countries, and the Muslim population is growing. Combine that with new technologies that make sex determination easier and cheaper, and I would think future sex ratios would be higher (which would not contribute to a peaceful future ).

[theanimal]

http://www.washington.edu/news/2014/09/ ... n-by-2100/

Using modern statistical tools, a new study led by the University of Washington and the United Nations finds that world population is likely to keep growing throughout the 21st century. The number of people on Earth is likely to reach 11 billion by 2100, the study concludes, about 2 billion higher than widely cited previous estimates.
...
“The consensus over the past 20 years or so was that world population, which is currently around 7 billion, would go up to 9 billion and level off or probably decline,” said corresponding author Adrian Raftery, a UW professor of statistics and of sociology. “We found there’s a 70 percent probability the world population will not stabilize this century. Population, which had sort of fallen off the world’s agenda, remains a very important issue.”
...
Most of the anticipated growth is in Africa, where population is projected to quadruple from around 1 billion today to 4 billion by the end of the century. The main reason is that birth rates in sub-Saharan Africa have not been going down as fast as had been expected. There is an 80 percent chance that the population in Africa at the end of the century will be between 3.5 billion and 5.1 billion people.

[Dragline]

Maybe they should have said "virtually all of the anticipated growth" will be in Africa, as implied by the next paragraph:

"Other regions of the world are projected to see less change. Asia, now 4.4 billion, is projected to peak at around 5 billion people in 2050 and then begin to decline. Populations in North America, Europe, and Latin America and the Caribbean are projected to stay below 1 billion each."

And how to fix it -- emancipation of women in Africa, of course (wait -- who said that? ):

"Studies show that the two things that decrease fertility rates are more access to contraceptives and education of girls and women, Raftery said. Africa, he said, could benefit greatly by acting now to lower its fertility rate."

Any luck downloading the paper or the related ones? All I got was a pay-wall, and I'm way too cheap for that.

[jennypenny]

And how to fix it -- emancipation of women in Africa, of course (wait -- who said that? ):

"Studies show that the two things that decrease fertility rates are more access to contraceptives and education of girls and women, Raftery said. Africa, he said, could benefit greatly by acting now to lower its fertility rate."

Emancipating and educating women has a positive effect on more than just population, and is warranted in more places than Africa. Educating girls is the quickest route to economic and societal development, usually within a generation.

[Felix]

If you want kids to stay virgins give them World of Warcraft accounts or Skyrim or both.

[jacob]

Total reported Ebola case load now stands at 16000. In Liberia, between 0.1% and 1% of the entire population has now been hit. Numbers are still believed to be underreported. While this story was partially AND deliberately removed from US media to avoid "panic" [whenever someone was hospitalized with flu symptoms], it's still growing although it's really hard to tell quantitatively because the testing facilities and reports are lagging reality.