Coding Bootcamp???

[Psyksis]

Hey guys, I have recently stumbled across a newer form of instruction in the programming/web development world. There are programs out there claiming to educate you enough in a 9-12 week course that you are able to accept a job as a junior developer. It is an intensive immersion program. They boast 90+% job placement rates with salaries upwards of 75k/year. If any of you have read my introduction you know that I sold my soul to the oil field 3 years ago. The money is amazing, but I feel like it is time to start looking to make a change. My health, both physical and mental, are degrading at an exponential rate. I was wondering if anybody has done research or has participated in one of these programs. Also I was wondering if any of the programmers here had any insight on these establishments. I appreciate the feedback!

Links to several "schools" that I am considering

General Assembly

Dev Bootcamp

Hack Reactor(rather lofty claims)

Coder Camps

[fips]

Depending on how sure you are that being a programmer will be your next career move you could try out some free tutorials first. Here are some examples for Python:

https://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersG ... rogrammers

https://www.coursera.org/course/interactivepython

For myself, I found it's more about the intrinsic motivation to actually acquire a new skill while being pre-occupied with another fulltime job. If you are determined to become a programmer, just go to your local library and pick up a few books or search the web for free tutorials and see how far you get. If you hang in there for a few month, check if your future employer needs some kind of certificate or degree in programming or if showing own projects etc. might suffice. Afterwards you could decide if you can teach yourself, if you need online courses or maybe a University degree.

[Psyksis]

I have completed courses at CodeAcademy and Khan Academy, and I am working on several other tutorials right now. It is definitely something that I enjoy doing on a regular basis. There is always something new to learn and I am challenged intellectually every day that I practice it, which is an enjoyable difference from my current job. I think that a 4 year degree is a waste of time and money, and that is why these bootcamps seem ideal for me. Why take 4 years to learn what you want to learn instead of learning it as fast as possible? I am able to do the self teaching, I just think that a structured approach will accelerate the learning process exponentially. The bootcamps also provide job placement assistance. Will a company like Google even look at the resume of somebody that is self taught with no verifiable experience beyond a portfolio that may or may not have been plagiarized(Not to mention, it will take years to obtain the skills necessary to create a presentable portfolio if you are self teaching while working a full time job)? Attending an immersion program that has a partnership with various companies seems like a HUGE benefit.

[workathome]

Jeeze... for $12k I'd try to teach myself and just start taking small jobs on oDesk/Elance and see if I can build a client base with good feedback. Some guys on there are charging $30/hour+ with full workloads.

Promising to secure you a job for $75k/year after a couple weeks of learning doesn't pass the "sniff test".

[JamesR]

If you're american & flexible enough to move to San Francisco, you could consider appacademy.io which is free, and takes a percentage of the job they help you land.

I am pretty optimistic about dev bootcamps, but maybe you should check for feedback from actual students and hiring companies. The demand seems to be high enough to allow this type of business model to succeed. Dev bootcamps typically make a profit on both ends, as also they collect a recruitment fee when they place you with a company. Training-wise, I think 12 weeks full-time can cover some of the major areas required to be a web dev, but be prepared to keep learning at a rapid pace afterwards. There may also be specific things that are not covered at dev bootcamps that are secondary but very important, such as knowledge of databases/SQL and familiarity with the terminal/UNIX.

The hiring companies will probably be used to hiring many junior developers (which are typically useless), so they will probably be used to providing a good environment for learning-as-you-work.

[KevinW]

I still stand by what I wrote in the thread Bigato linked to, and in the wiki ( http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wiki/ ... rogramming ). Learning to program well involves internalizing about 2 books' worth of technical information, and a lot of practice. At this point there are enough free resources out there that anyone could teach themselves, if they are internally motivated enough. If you want to really master it, expect to put in 10 years as Norvig says. The boot camps seem like fair products if you want someone to give you structure and coach you through the basics. But don't be deluded into thinking they are the same thing as 10 years' experience or a 4 year degree; that's just not possible.

A 4 year CS or CE degree is about programming to the same extent that a 4 year English BA is about grammar, or a 4 year astrophysics degree is about telescopes. It is unsurprising that educational attainment is orthogonal to practical programming ability. Though I really don't understand how people with a terminal BS and remedial programming capability expect to be marketable...what's the point?

[leeholsen]

I would echo some of what JamesR said. These bootcamps are essentially consulting companies. They'll teach you coding and try to place you, but they're getting some money from the company that hires you in addition to whatever you pay them.

If it were me, i'd do two things. find out the top 10 programming languages forecasted over the next several years and pick the one that appeals to you most and find the best company that'll give you traing and placement for the least cost. you want to shop training/placement companies just as much as you do your next career as youre most likely paying them so they shouldnt be treatign you like another resume the send out to their client companies.

[simple aly]

I currently study at Treehouse, Code School, Codecademy and Coursera. After reading one of Bigato's previous posts I also started to solve problems at Code Wars (for example one basic problem there is the Fizz Buzz problem that the article discussed--I believe it's a rank 7 problem which is "white belt"/beginner).

Codecademy, Coursera and Code Wars are free and Tree House and Code School are around $30 per month with free trials.

My take is that there are different skills involved in "development." One job might require you to make a pretty website, another to make some buttons click, another to think of ideas that are marketable to 18 - 25 year olds, another to calculate the time it takes to travel to the next galaxy at warp factor 10.

The main thing is you are matching your skill set to some need of the marketplace. The marketplace has many different needs and you don't need to fulfill them all.

In my personal experience there is no dichotomy between following a course and getting coding practice. For example, for my Coursera course I was required to make a git account and push my code. Treehouse has weekly contests where you make your own projects. Not that I've made anything great (I haven't) but I feel my courses encourage me to get practice.

[jacob]

http://venturebeat.com/2014/04/25/why-g ... -5-quotes/
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1170 ... tal-ageism

[Alcibar]

Jacob, Google basically hires by IQ (first criteria). Grit probably second criteria. So unless you are a 1% er in IQ you can likely have all the grit in the world and not make it through the screening process. Ignore what their PR flacks say.

Not necessarily promoting the strategy but it is what it is.

[dot_com_vet]

If you want a job: teach yourself, boot camp, etc.

If you want a career: College/University

One is not better than the other, it depends what your goal is. I was at a college alumni event earlier in the month. All the CS people at my table agreed that to land the first job, one really only used the knowledge from about 2 or 3 of our classes.

Opportunities change as the years roll on, though.

[simple aly]

If you only want to work somewhere prestigious, I think it's an issue in any field. You went to Harvard, they wanted Yale. Your father was a CEO and someone else's was a Senator, and they needed the political connection more. You are beautiful but someone else won Miss America. Whatever it is, they will always find something wrong with you.

How about getting room and board on an organic farm in exchange for making them a website and maybe developing some apps for them, starting a blog or an online store, doing translations? Are they going to say, well you didn't win the top coder competition, you didn't go to MIT and there might be a mole on your skin and maybe even a wrinkle?

[batman]

This topic is near and dear to my heart. Mainly because I ended up going to grad school (still going actually) to change careers to software development! If I could do it again, I would have done a coding bootcamp and save so much money/not have to use student loans. Although it's true that you could just teach yourself, it's a lot easier and faster to go through the bootcamp. I know this doesn't mean much, coming from a random person across the Internet, but an old friend of mine went to Hack Reactor in SF and got a job at Amazon (in Seattle though, not SF), and this is with no relevant professional experience.

[casual34]

how about this? haven't looked into it in depth but came recommended

https://stacksocial.com/sales/the-name- ... ode-bundle#

[almostthere]

@Bigato and Simple aly - thanks for the fizzbuzz and codewars links! Looks like fun.