you are never 'ready' to have kids (for males at least). Not being sure about it does not mean per se you shouldn't have them.
practicing with children of others really won't work. A child of your own is *completely* different.
When they get a bit older, start to talk etc. it is much more fun then the first period of only feeding, sleeping and changing diapers.
They enrich your live (can be both good and bad..hahaha). I can be very proud of them. They help me to see others sides of issues, experiences etc. It makes me feeling vulnarable sometimes. The idea of loosing them is unbearable. Even alone typing this is creating tears in my eyes. I think that says enough about the special bond.
There are pros and cons, there is no perfect decision. And you will never know how it would have been with (if you don't have them) or without (if you have them)
I don't believe you 'take' children, you 'get' them (if you want). There are plenty of couples who can't have them. This could happen to you as well.
From a parent of a 6 and 8 years old.
Convince me that I should have children.
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SilverElephant
- Posts: 130
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Re: Convince me that I should have children.
From what I gather from older friends who have kids (and my personal experience), the focus should be on identifying a woman you'd want to have children with. A partner who has similar goals and values with whom you want to share your life might heavily influence your decision (not through coersion or similar, but through being there) and probably make the whole thing much easier too. It's not as if you're expected to go through it alone.
Re: Convince me that I should have children.
There are some negatives that people tend to overestimate compared to my experience:
- Loss of freedom is really a matter of conforming to the normal. I think pets can be a lot more restricting in that sense (very hard to take a dog on an international flight, for example). People travel in a van full time, get FI and do all sorts of things while having and raising kids. I travel a lot less for work now than I used to, but I get around a lot more outside of work.
- "Kids are boring cause you can't really communicate with them".. really? Maybe this is specific to my personality, but have you ever actually seriously talked to a 3-year-old? My guess is people find talking to kids boring because they talk to them like kids. The intellectual curiosity and honesty that a kid can have when you take them seriously has been literally very educating.
The straightforwardness and honesty is also what makes my kid way less exhausting for me to socialise with, as an introvert, than any adult in my life, no matter how close.
- Diapers! Come on, it's a very short time and the modern ones are very easy, even if a little expensive:)
- Loss of freedom is really a matter of conforming to the normal. I think pets can be a lot more restricting in that sense (very hard to take a dog on an international flight, for example). People travel in a van full time, get FI and do all sorts of things while having and raising kids. I travel a lot less for work now than I used to, but I get around a lot more outside of work.
- "Kids are boring cause you can't really communicate with them".. really? Maybe this is specific to my personality, but have you ever actually seriously talked to a 3-year-old? My guess is people find talking to kids boring because they talk to them like kids. The intellectual curiosity and honesty that a kid can have when you take them seriously has been literally very educating.
The straightforwardness and honesty is also what makes my kid way less exhausting for me to socialise with, as an introvert, than any adult in my life, no matter how close.
- Diapers! Come on, it's a very short time and the modern ones are very easy, even if a little expensive:)
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saving-10-years
- Posts: 554
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Re: Convince me that I should have children.
Parenthood is not a journey from which you can turn back so consider carefully. In terms of the stats you are more likely to have a long-term relationship with your child(ren) than with the person you have them with. Sad but true.
Having a child brings unpredictability into your life on an on-going basis. The child may have small or large special needs that you have to adapt to. In our case a special diet because of food allergy meant that for the first decade we avoided having certain foods in the house and didn't eat in some restaurants with him as part of the party. We also became adept at whole body bandaging/moisturising for severe eczema to the extent that we later offered respite care for parents with children with severe food allergies and eczema.
Even without such curveballs there will be change. Its the changes (big and small) that have made the experience rewarding. We waited until DH was ready to have children (which was not until he was mid-30s and then took some time to achieve) and we stopped at one because DH felt that that was enough of a challenge. You really do have to agree with each other on what the broad principles are before you start.
'On-going' is the key word here. Children will transform your future (you expect them to outlive you) so that no matter how far into the future you look they will always be a consideration. Moving abroad? Selling the house (aka family home) to downsize? Planning a holiday? You'll be making decisons for different reasons in the future. The whole of your future.
Its easier to give reasons why not than why do it. The latter tend to be personal and pretty tied to emotion/feelings. Logically its a huge risk, and I am not sure that you can make it on those grounds.
Having a child brings unpredictability into your life on an on-going basis. The child may have small or large special needs that you have to adapt to. In our case a special diet because of food allergy meant that for the first decade we avoided having certain foods in the house and didn't eat in some restaurants with him as part of the party. We also became adept at whole body bandaging/moisturising for severe eczema to the extent that we later offered respite care for parents with children with severe food allergies and eczema.
Even without such curveballs there will be change. Its the changes (big and small) that have made the experience rewarding. We waited until DH was ready to have children (which was not until he was mid-30s and then took some time to achieve) and we stopped at one because DH felt that that was enough of a challenge. You really do have to agree with each other on what the broad principles are before you start.
'On-going' is the key word here. Children will transform your future (you expect them to outlive you) so that no matter how far into the future you look they will always be a consideration. Moving abroad? Selling the house (aka family home) to downsize? Planning a holiday? You'll be making decisons for different reasons in the future. The whole of your future.
Its easier to give reasons why not than why do it. The latter tend to be personal and pretty tied to emotion/feelings. Logically its a huge risk, and I am not sure that you can make it on those grounds.
Re: Convince me that I should have children.
I have two children and six stepchildren.
If I had it to do all over again, I would have children again, but I would only have one and I'd wait until I was in my thirties to do that.
Children have affected my life most by redirecting my priorities. More of my decisions are for them now than for myself, and more of my decisions (including spending) are reactionary... based on lack of energy or time than on careful planning.
The best part about being a parent to me is the relationship to the kid. It's kind of intangible and hard to describe or quantify, and I think that's the problem you're running into here. You can have a relationship to a kid in other ways (mentoring, etc.) but it just isn't the same. The depth isn't there. And while I love my stepchildren, my attachment to them isn't as strong either. I'm more like an aunt than a parent to them, and while that's fine with all of us, it is not the same as parenting.
The worst part of parenting is the constant nature of it. Anyone else in your life you can walk away from when you need a break. It may cause an argument, but you can do it. You can't do that with a kid. Feeling the pressure to be always on, always available, is taxing for many people even if there's otherwise nothing to be stressed out about. For me it creates a layer of frazzled chaos that never seems to dissipate no matter how much rest I get or how well the children behave.
Financially, having children is a bad decision, period. They are a money suck. Most of that is controllable (buy used baby clothes), some of it is not (you may need expensive medications that your health plan doesn't cover). The only thing I'm sure of is that you'll spend more than you predict.
I don't think you will ever be able to reason yourself into having a child. Tremendous benefits exist, but they're largely emotional, and emotions are inherently irrational.
If I had it to do all over again, I would have children again, but I would only have one and I'd wait until I was in my thirties to do that.
Children have affected my life most by redirecting my priorities. More of my decisions are for them now than for myself, and more of my decisions (including spending) are reactionary... based on lack of energy or time than on careful planning.
The best part about being a parent to me is the relationship to the kid. It's kind of intangible and hard to describe or quantify, and I think that's the problem you're running into here. You can have a relationship to a kid in other ways (mentoring, etc.) but it just isn't the same. The depth isn't there. And while I love my stepchildren, my attachment to them isn't as strong either. I'm more like an aunt than a parent to them, and while that's fine with all of us, it is not the same as parenting.
The worst part of parenting is the constant nature of it. Anyone else in your life you can walk away from when you need a break. It may cause an argument, but you can do it. You can't do that with a kid. Feeling the pressure to be always on, always available, is taxing for many people even if there's otherwise nothing to be stressed out about. For me it creates a layer of frazzled chaos that never seems to dissipate no matter how much rest I get or how well the children behave.
Financially, having children is a bad decision, period. They are a money suck. Most of that is controllable (buy used baby clothes), some of it is not (you may need expensive medications that your health plan doesn't cover). The only thing I'm sure of is that you'll spend more than you predict.
I don't think you will ever be able to reason yourself into having a child. Tremendous benefits exist, but they're largely emotional, and emotions are inherently irrational.
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jennypenny
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Re: Convince me that I should have children.
I’m going to assume that you’ve read the ERE and Kids thread, and know that I’ve tried to raise my kids in ERE fashion, and I assume you would, too. I’m also assuming that having kids doesn’t necessarily mean biologically. If you are able and comfortable having your own, you’ll experience the odd pleasure of seeing familiar eyes looking back at you when you look at your kids. If you choose to adopt for ethical or other reasons, you’ll get the unique joy and satisfaction that comes from building a family that way.
That said, I’m not entirely comfortable trying to convince someone to have kids. You can’t undo it once it’s done. OTOH, if you have kids and then find yourself with mixed feelings about being a parent, it won’t be the end of the world. I do think people overstate that a bit. When I was younger, I didn’t want kids, either. Then I married DH. We went into it with the agreement that if one of us really wanted kids, the other would comply. (I guess we wanted each other more than we wanted to be child-free.) We built something that we knew would last first, and only after we had done that did we decide that we wanted to add kids to it (to build something bigger, I guess).
Sometimes, I think people on the forum focus on the negative too much. As GandK mentioned, it might be because it's easier to enumerate the negatives involved with raising children. It's harder to articulate the warm and fuzzy feelings.
--What are your expectations? Are they too high? People who hope for a life filled with Kodak moments are usually disappointed. Life is much more like a John Hughes film when you have kids.
--Are you willing to work at the relationship(s)? I don't think the bond between a parent and child is automatic. You have to work at it just like you do with your partner.
--Can you stand the chaos? It isn't always chaotic, but it’s definitely unpredictable and messy. I’ve learned to appreciate the energy that comes from that. That said, I'll also admit that I still hide in the bathroom occasionally for a little peace and quiet.
--Are you prepared to do the things you want to do with children in tow? I don’t think you have to give up your dreams when you have kids, but you need the determination to pursue them while raising kids. Anyone who can manage even a semi-ERE lifestyle is capable enough to raise and educate their kids while pursuing any path they choose. I think the determination to do so is more important.
--Are you prepared to give up those same dreams? I don’t think you should, but shit happens. If you made a bucket list of 10 things, but could only do 8 with kids, could you give up the other 2? If there are one or two things you feel compelled to do that would be extremely difficult with kids, do them first.
Some of the things I found the most pleasurable and somewhat unexpected…
-- The feeling that comes from having your own tribe. Some of that is instinctual, I’m sure. Some of it (for me) comes from feeling out of step with normal society, and finding comfort in being part of a group that understands me.
-- Teaching them and/or watching them figure things out for themselves. This gives me a surprising amount of pleasure. Sometimes it’s frustrating--try explaining how to suck liquid through a straw or blow your nose to an 18 month old—but I find it challenging in a good way.
-- I’m a much better person, and not only because someone is always watching.
It makes you patient, it makes you less rigid, and it helps you see what is most important to you and let go of the rest.
-- Enjoying their interests with them. I like that my kids are different from me. I’m not one to ‘mold’ my kids. It’s more fun to see what they turn out like. I love traveling with them and seeing what fascinates them, or learning about subjects that they want to learn about.
-- I think being a grown-up is overrated, and kids give me an excuse to continue to do the childish things that I like to do. I know, in theory, I could do them anyway, but I think I would look foolish (or creepy) building a sand castle at the beach or going to see Toy Story if I didn't have kids with me.
-- I've learned that loving someone means different things at different stages. When they’re babies, it means taking care of their constant needs. When they’re kids, it means answering a thousand questions. When they’re teens, it means standing firm while letting them figure out who they are. Very little of it involves hugs and “I love you’s” and such.
--You know what’s involved in the day-to-day care of kids. Sometimes I think that can turn people off because it shows you all of the work but only a fraction of the reward. It’s different with your own kids. You don’t mind the work as much.
-- They keep me connected to younger generations in a tangible way.
tl;dr ... Kids won't help if you don't have your shit together, but chances are they won't ruin your life, either. You get to feel younger longer, and you get an intimate view of the world through someone else's eyes. If you want kids and ERE, it can be done if you're determined to do it.
That said, I’m not entirely comfortable trying to convince someone to have kids. You can’t undo it once it’s done. OTOH, if you have kids and then find yourself with mixed feelings about being a parent, it won’t be the end of the world. I do think people overstate that a bit. When I was younger, I didn’t want kids, either. Then I married DH. We went into it with the agreement that if one of us really wanted kids, the other would comply. (I guess we wanted each other more than we wanted to be child-free.) We built something that we knew would last first, and only after we had done that did we decide that we wanted to add kids to it (to build something bigger, I guess).
Sometimes, I think people on the forum focus on the negative too much. As GandK mentioned, it might be because it's easier to enumerate the negatives involved with raising children. It's harder to articulate the warm and fuzzy feelings.
-- Is your relationship solid? I think having a clear vision of ‘Team C40’ is important before you add kids to the mix. We built a life together and then the kids became a part of it. The kids aren’t the center of the universe in our house. I think letting kids define a relationship can kill it.I’m looking for questions I should be asking myself, things I should considering, etc.
--What are your expectations? Are they too high? People who hope for a life filled with Kodak moments are usually disappointed. Life is much more like a John Hughes film when you have kids.
--Are you willing to work at the relationship(s)? I don't think the bond between a parent and child is automatic. You have to work at it just like you do with your partner.
--Can you stand the chaos? It isn't always chaotic, but it’s definitely unpredictable and messy. I’ve learned to appreciate the energy that comes from that. That said, I'll also admit that I still hide in the bathroom occasionally for a little peace and quiet.
--Are you prepared to do the things you want to do with children in tow? I don’t think you have to give up your dreams when you have kids, but you need the determination to pursue them while raising kids. Anyone who can manage even a semi-ERE lifestyle is capable enough to raise and educate their kids while pursuing any path they choose. I think the determination to do so is more important.
--Are you prepared to give up those same dreams? I don’t think you should, but shit happens. If you made a bucket list of 10 things, but could only do 8 with kids, could you give up the other 2? If there are one or two things you feel compelled to do that would be extremely difficult with kids, do them first.
Some of the things I found the most pleasurable and somewhat unexpected…
-- The feeling that comes from having your own tribe. Some of that is instinctual, I’m sure. Some of it (for me) comes from feeling out of step with normal society, and finding comfort in being part of a group that understands me.
-- Teaching them and/or watching them figure things out for themselves. This gives me a surprising amount of pleasure. Sometimes it’s frustrating--try explaining how to suck liquid through a straw or blow your nose to an 18 month old—but I find it challenging in a good way.
-- I’m a much better person, and not only because someone is always watching.
It makes you patient, it makes you less rigid, and it helps you see what is most important to you and let go of the rest.-- Enjoying their interests with them. I like that my kids are different from me. I’m not one to ‘mold’ my kids. It’s more fun to see what they turn out like. I love traveling with them and seeing what fascinates them, or learning about subjects that they want to learn about.
-- I think being a grown-up is overrated, and kids give me an excuse to continue to do the childish things that I like to do. I know, in theory, I could do them anyway, but I think I would look foolish (or creepy) building a sand castle at the beach or going to see Toy Story if I didn't have kids with me.
-- I've learned that loving someone means different things at different stages. When they’re babies, it means taking care of their constant needs. When they’re kids, it means answering a thousand questions. When they’re teens, it means standing firm while letting them figure out who they are. Very little of it involves hugs and “I love you’s” and such.
--You know what’s involved in the day-to-day care of kids. Sometimes I think that can turn people off because it shows you all of the work but only a fraction of the reward. It’s different with your own kids. You don’t mind the work as much.
-- They keep me connected to younger generations in a tangible way.
tl;dr ... Kids won't help if you don't have your shit together, but chances are they won't ruin your life, either. You get to feel younger longer, and you get an intimate view of the world through someone else's eyes. If you want kids and ERE, it can be done if you're determined to do it.
Re: Convince me that I should have children.
@ C40, I do not think you should commit to having children now. If you are asking the question, you probably already know the answer. I think it is cool that we know enough about each other through this forum that such interactions can take place.
Their are some excellent points above. I reinforce the references to having a like minded, solid partner. In your OP your girlfriend mentioning that having children would "make you happier" frightened me a bit. I hope you are not unhappy but hope more that neither of you would depend on children to increase your happiness! Children have a way of exposing weak spots in common points of view.
GandK put it well concerning money. "Financially, having children is a bad decision, period. They are a money suck." Often these statements turn into a best case scenario for me......
That being said, my two kids are often a very motivating, bright spot in my life. Knowing what I know now: (my) life would stink without them.
Their are some excellent points above. I reinforce the references to having a like minded, solid partner. In your OP your girlfriend mentioning that having children would "make you happier" frightened me a bit. I hope you are not unhappy but hope more that neither of you would depend on children to increase your happiness! Children have a way of exposing weak spots in common points of view.
GandK put it well concerning money. "Financially, having children is a bad decision, period. They are a money suck." Often these statements turn into a best case scenario for me......
That being said, my two kids are often a very motivating, bright spot in my life. Knowing what I know now: (my) life would stink without them.
Re: Convince me that I should have children.
If what you are doing is among other people, and it's not at Disney World, be prepared for loud sighs of defeat and big eye rolls from everyone who doesn't have kids.jennypenny wrote:
--Are you prepared to do the things you want to do with children in tow? I don’t think you have to give up your dreams when you have kids, but you need the determination to pursue them while raising kids. Anyone who can manage even a semi-ERE lifestyle is capable enough to raise and educate their kids while pursuing any path they choose. I think the determination to do so is more important.
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workathome
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:06 pm
Re: Convince me that I should have children.
Maybe around a bunch of D.C. assholes. Around here people tend to smile and want to say "hi" to the kids.Chad wrote:
If what you are doing is among other people, and it's not at Disney World, be prepared for loud sighs of defeat and big eye rolls from everyone who doesn't have kids.
Re: Convince me that I should have children.
One more thing to think about... I know from family experience (sister, ex-husband) that ENFPs tend to see the world through rose-colored glasses. And if they get disillusioned, they tend to turn to a new dream and they try to get other people to deal with any pesky remaining details of their original projects... or ignore those entirely. That works just fine for things like home improvements. Not so much for child rearing.
It might be a useful exercise to get your girlfriend to articulate all the ways in which she thinks your life will change if the two of you have kids. If the list she makes has no negative life changes on it, or only a couple of extremely downplayed ones, then I believe she needs to do more research into the subject just as you are doing. Once she can articulate the down side of kids, she may not want them anymore... unless she's feeling outside pressure e.g. her parents wanting grandkids.
It might be a useful exercise to get your girlfriend to articulate all the ways in which she thinks your life will change if the two of you have kids. If the list she makes has no negative life changes on it, or only a couple of extremely downplayed ones, then I believe she needs to do more research into the subject just as you are doing. Once she can articulate the down side of kids, she may not want them anymore... unless she's feeling outside pressure e.g. her parents wanting grandkids.
Re: Convince me that I should have children.
I see too many absolutes in discussions about kids, like having one makes you the ultimate authority in the universe... Isn't our common bond all about doing things in a way that is much more efficient, defying common knowledge? I'm planning on: not spending a fortune, having excessive free time, taking long vacations, sleeping copiously... If I said this in front of most parents I'd already have been stoned to death, but on the internet I am safe to say I'm planning all those benefits and more.
A serious issue, but some lighthearted reasons to have kids:
+free labor once they develop adequate motor skills and concentration... I will finally buy a milk cow.
+an opportunity to remedy all the things that impeded your path to ERE and success
+once they're no longer toddlers; friends... Friends that legally cannot leave you.
+extend your own, and especially your parents', vitality
+likely the only way young people will hang out with you, of their own volition, without involving currency when you're over 60.
+tax credits... And potential money laundering outlets.
+social capital; people will assume you're a good person. Even though you're probably not.
+you can run for public office (and actually win)
+you can re-experience all the games, books, toys, activities, locations you loved as a child.
+you can raise much better future humans than most people having them.
+there are many humans but much of that population is in jeopardy. Raise children who can survive and carry the fire.
+giving life is a serious gift. Are you not grateful?
+injects change, challenge and new blood into what might be a stagnating lifestyle... Especially once your children start looking for a mate.
A serious issue, but some lighthearted reasons to have kids:
+free labor once they develop adequate motor skills and concentration... I will finally buy a milk cow.
+an opportunity to remedy all the things that impeded your path to ERE and success
+once they're no longer toddlers; friends... Friends that legally cannot leave you.
+extend your own, and especially your parents', vitality
+likely the only way young people will hang out with you, of their own volition, without involving currency when you're over 60.
+tax credits... And potential money laundering outlets.
+social capital; people will assume you're a good person. Even though you're probably not.
+you can run for public office (and actually win)
+you can re-experience all the games, books, toys, activities, locations you loved as a child.
+you can raise much better future humans than most people having them.
+there are many humans but much of that population is in jeopardy. Raise children who can survive and carry the fire.
+giving life is a serious gift. Are you not grateful?
+injects change, challenge and new blood into what might be a stagnating lifestyle... Especially once your children start looking for a mate.
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jacob
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Re: Convince me that I should have children.
@JohnnyH - Also,
+ provide a free pass for any social arrangement you'd rather avoid
+ likely compatible blood or organ donors
+ guarantee that you'll finally be able to use up all your allocated sick time
+ family members who are tiny enough to clean the chimney
+ during a brief period around 5th grade you'll have someone in your home who is actually smarter than you
+ provide a free pass for any social arrangement you'd rather avoid
+ likely compatible blood or organ donors
+ guarantee that you'll finally be able to use up all your allocated sick time
+ family members who are tiny enough to clean the chimney
+ during a brief period around 5th grade you'll have someone in your home who is actually smarter than you
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jennypenny
- Posts: 6853
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Re: Convince me that I should have children.
I was getting those before I ever had kids with me.Chad wrote:If what you are doing is among other people, and it's not at Disney World, be prepared for loud sighs of defeat and big eye rolls from everyone who doesn't have kids.jennypenny wrote:
--Are you prepared to do the things you want to do with children in tow? I don’t think you have to give up your dreams when you have kids, but you need the determination to pursue them while raising kids. Anyone who can manage even a semi-ERE lifestyle is capable enough to raise and educate their kids while pursuing any path they choose. I think the determination to do so is more important.
I dislike the child/no child discussion because it's such a personal decision, but C40 asked for opinions. Specifically, he asked for reasons why someone should have a child. Even with that narrow scope, the responses are all over the place. I guess we all have our own reasons for wanting or not wanting a child.JohnnyH wrote:I see too many absolutes in discussions about kids, like having one makes you the ultimate authority in the universe... Isn't our common bond all about doing things in a way that is much more efficient, defying common knowledge?
I'm not advocating anything in this article, but since C40 is thinking about the matter, I thought he might find it interesting ... http://www.artofmanliness.com/2014/03/0 ... nliness%29
Re: Convince me that I should have children.
@ JohnyH & jacob: lol! I had to clean my phone screen after reading.
I'll keep these in mind when the kids give me a hard time
I'll keep these in mind when the kids give me a hard time
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lilacorchid
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- Location: Canada
Re: Convince me that I should have children.
To build on what @jennypenny said a bit: After I had my child, a very large part of my brain settled down and stopped bugging me to have a child. I am positive that part of it was a biological urge as I could never really pin down a reason to have kids other than I liked kids and always wanted to be a mother at some point in my life. I am glad that I did other things before I became a mom and I had the time to get my shit together.
One thing I can quantify about having a kid is how interesting it is to watch them turn into people. I find it immensely interesting to watch my son make connections and gain skills. Not to say that there isn't a lot of frustrating or gross things (shit up the infant's back anyone?) about being a parent, but what interesting thing in life is not messy at times?
One thing I can quantify about having a kid is how interesting it is to watch them turn into people. I find it immensely interesting to watch my son make connections and gain skills. Not to say that there isn't a lot of frustrating or gross things (shit up the infant's back anyone?) about being a parent, but what interesting thing in life is not messy at times?
This doesn't happen ever. EVAR.jacob wrote:+ provide a free pass for any social arrangement you'd rather avoid
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SimpleLife
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Re: Convince me that I should have children.
I've recently been debating the same choice. My hard line stance since high school has been that I don't want children, and it ended some relationships...
My stance has never really changed over the last 20 years. The only reason it has come up in debate recently is because my gf wants to have a child. I had told her when we got together that I don't want to get married or have children and she was OK with that. Now I feel like society is pressuring me to have children and get married. I am the odd man out at work. Never been married, no kids.
Thoughts like, "I need to pass on my genes" are stupid really IMO. Who cares? Do any of these things really matter? We no longer live in caves hunting for our food while heating with firewood. I can pass on my genes by becoming a sperm donor. Problem solved. I passed on my genes and avoided having a financial burden/risk over me for 30+ years (I have friends who in their 30's and 50's still live with their parents).
More and more people are deciding not to have children, or get married for that matter.
My stance has never really changed over the last 20 years. The only reason it has come up in debate recently is because my gf wants to have a child. I had told her when we got together that I don't want to get married or have children and she was OK with that. Now I feel like society is pressuring me to have children and get married. I am the odd man out at work. Never been married, no kids.
Thoughts like, "I need to pass on my genes" are stupid really IMO. Who cares? Do any of these things really matter? We no longer live in caves hunting for our food while heating with firewood. I can pass on my genes by becoming a sperm donor. Problem solved. I passed on my genes and avoided having a financial burden/risk over me for 30+ years (I have friends who in their 30's and 50's still live with their parents).
More and more people are deciding not to have children, or get married for that matter.
Re: Convince me that I should have children.
What are you willing to do/support to avoid having children?
Celibacy
Vasectomy
Abortion
Celibacy
Vasectomy
Abortion
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saving-10-years
- Posts: 554
- Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
- Location: Warwickshire, UK
Re: Convince me that I should have children.
Um that is a short list. Are you stating that contraceprion is not an option/does not work? That's certainly not been my experience.EMJ wrote:What are you willing to do/support to avoid having children?
Celibacy
Vasectomy
Abortion
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saving-10-years
- Posts: 554
- Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
- Location: Warwickshire, UK
Re: Convince me that I should have children.
One of the nice things about having children is the teaching aspect. They teach you (about life, the world and yourself), you teach them. I get what @JennyPenny says when she talks about her tribe. But I also think that its not only genes but upbringing. You understand that child and they understand you in ways that others don't and can't. You saw them develop and steered them, took pride in things that they accomplished by themselves and in things that they did with your support. Its the biggest, baddest and most personal science experiment you could ever take part in. Its impossible (I feel) not to care deeply. There is an added marvel if you gave birth/carried the child, or it represents your DNA in action, but that is only part of the story.SimpleLife wrote:Thoughts like, "I need to pass on my genes" are stupid really IMO. Who cares? Do any of these things really matter? We no longer live in caves hunting for our food while heating with firewood. I can pass on my genes by becoming a sperm donor.
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workathome
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:06 pm
Re: Convince me that I should have children.
I honestly don't see what "passing on genes" has to do with firewood and caves than a ad-hominen attack to call anyone who cares about that "primitive." You may use that to justify your position, but you're being intellectually dishonest. I think nonchalantly becoming a "sperm donor" is extremely morally wrong, as if you were literally dropping yourself off as a helpless child to some random situation without attempting to provide nurturing support. TBH I don't think you should raise children with that mindset.SimpleLife wrote: Thoughts like, "I need to pass on my genes" are stupid really IMO. Who cares? Do any of these things really matter? We no longer live in caves hunting for our food while heating with firewood. I can pass on my genes by becoming a sperm donor. Problem solved. I passed on my genes and avoided having a financial burden/risk over me for 30+ years (I have friends who in their 30's and 50's still live with their parents).
More and more people are deciding not to have children, or get married for that matter.
That said, the most-reproductive population groups in a "Modern Society" / First World Country setting tend to come from either highly religious groups (Islamic countries, Orthodox Jews, traditional Christian groups) or highly irresponsible people who can't bother using birth control and don't consider the consequences of your action. Because you are intelligent, plan for the future, and are taking the time to consider this, any child you did bring into the world would certainly be much better off than any born to the later group.