ERE City (US)

[dragoncar]

Keep up updated. I wonder how much the ERE hot money can raise local prices? Perhaps I should front-run and start buying in the above-listed towns before Jacob buys and drives up all the prices

[Seneca]

For example maybe Sacramento or something comes to mind. It's very cheap, the weather is good most of the year (though is pretty hot for a few months), most of it would be walkable/bikeable....

What do you think? In general the west is less dense also and seems easier to carve out a place in.

I've lived all over California, Northern, SF Bay Area and Southern.

If there is a worse state for trying to live frugally, I'd be surprised. (Though ERE is a strategy independent of region in my mind)

Sacramento only seems cheap to an urban Californian (or NYC or DC). Homes actually in Sacramento, and not commuter areas like Folsom, Rocklin, Elk Grove, Roseville etc, are quite expensive compared to the rest of the country. Real estate prices are exceptionally volatile, and finding rental properties that provide decent returns on a cashflow basis is tough. Prevailing wages are nowhere near enough higher to compensate. The public schools suck.

California itself has the highest taxes in the nation now, and is still not meeting all true liabilities...pretty clear where they have to go from here. Building codes tend to be extreme, as do many city codes (regarding parked cars, green grass/landscaping, home size/shape, additions, workshops etc etc).

If you are willing to work a truly extreme program with alternative living arrangements, then CA can be good as you could benefit from higher wages. But if you wish to own property or rent a somewhat normal place, it...well...sucks.

[vivacious]

Ya. I was just brainstorming. My main idea was what jacob already replied to.

Sac is cheaper than SF and other places though, no? Plus some of the other factors I talked about.

Anyway I was talking about the west coast in general. Jacob fleshed out some Washington examples. More could be made in various places on the west coast also.

[workathome]

A state with no taxes on capital gains or dividends would be nice.

[thebbqguy]

I vote for Harlingen, TX. Here's how it compares to my current city.

http://www.areavibes.com/cost-of-living ... ville,+mi/

[theanimal]

Just read through this thread...Jacob, any update on the search in Washington state?

I agree that the west seems to lend itself for better opportunities with regards to taxes, recreation etc. It would be nice if we could agree on an ERE town/city that are (almost) perfect for each region (west, midwest, east coast etc.) That may be impossible though, as stated before, since it seems like people have different preferences.

[jacob]

@theanimal - Port Townsend, WA and Anacortes, WA. The former is an artsy Victorian town with a boating and woodworking focus. The latter is a tourist town for whale watching and the closest point to the San Juan islands. Also it's the starting point of one of the adventure cycling tours. Alternatively, Port Orchard which has close ferry connections to Seattle.

There's also Whidbye island (Vicki Robin of YMOYL lives there). Particularly the southern part as the northern part is too close to commute distance with Everett (Boeing).

I've also looked at Union, WA. Forbes magazine put that on its list of pretty towns. Bill Gates has a house there. It's in the middle of nowhere, very scenic, and seem to consist of a marina, a golf course, and the associated country club, but also cheaper housing (because there are no jobs for those who need such).

[theanimal]

Wow well from quick google searches Port Townsend, Union and Whidbey Island sure look great. Close access to national parks, small towns, on the waterfront...etc.

FWIW, I spent a lot of time over the summer with a friend who grew up in Whidbey Island. She raved about it constantly, didn't really think at the time to question her about it being ERE friendly though.

[JohnnyH]

TL;DR - Washington state is currently my favorite state due to: decent RE prices, low RE taxes, no income tax, no excessive winter heating costs, long growth season, fresh water from the sky, lots of nature.

Hm, I am agreeing it sounds great... Of the no income tax states year round pleasant temperatures are only available in WA. Also, these RE prices/taxes are lower than anything I've seen in WY, a favorite state of mine.

Politically, I do not like WA but I suppose I could just buy WA property in LLC and "live" in any state of my choosing... But I suppose using this method the state income tax becomes irrelevant... There would also be some issues to overcome (forwarding mail).

[JohnnyH]

Interesting tool trulia has here... Median sales price for 98260 zip on Whidbye island less than $166k.
http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/Washi ... -heat_map/

[thebbqguy]

Here's a top 10 lowest cost of living rankings I just ran through a popular screener:

1 Flint, MI
2 Laredo, TX
3 Memphis, TN
4 Toledo, OH
5 McAllen, TX
6 Waco, TX
7 Clarksville, TN
8 Lansing, MI
9 Pueblo, CO
10 Brownsville, TX


http://www.areavibes.com/best-places/america/

[workathome]

I don't think cheapest necessarily equals ERE. Those two Michigan cities are pretty shitty, I'd much rather opt for one of the Washington cities mentioned earlier.

[thebbqguy]

It's all relative and depends on perspective I guess. Some might say that living in a cheap house in a nice area is less desireable than living in a nice house in a less desireable area.

As an example, when I purchased the house I live in now I had a choice between one of the best cities in the metro Detroit area (Plymouth) and buying a cheap house that's 60 years old for $250k, or moving to Belleville, MI which is a good commute to my work place, but not high end in any way unless you live on the lake where homes are $400k+. I purchased a 12 year old house for 1/2 price in Belleville compared to most homes in Plymouth.

I am not a "water" person at all so Washington doesn't appeal to me. I also found it interesting that the first Washington city doesn't appear on the list until #71.

Tennessee and Texas are also fairly desirable in my opinion.

[workathome]

I like Tennessee, though not sure about Clarksville. Property Taxes are cheaper than Michigan. No income tax, though they tax dividends. Washington might still be better if you count just those. You also don't have to live next to the water

[JohnnyH]

Reading the methodology for the AreaVibes a CTRL+F[ind] "tax" yields zero results... So if property taxes are included it's buried in the housing or rent stats. Might be OK for renters, but probably not for owners.

Case in point... The top rated city in the US is Cinco Ranch, TX which according to city-data.com:
Median real estate property taxes paid for housing units with mortgages in 2011: $6,892 (2.7%)
Median real estate property taxes paid for housing units with no mortgage in 2011: $5,918 (2.6%)

Ewww!!!... Absolutely incompatible with my ERE... Stable and low property taxes are the first mandatory condition for my ERE home search.

[Dragline]

The book "Radical Frugality" by Nic Adams identifies five places that seem particularly attractive to the frugal-minded in terms of taxes, transportation and housing expenses: Juneau, Alaska; Cookeville, Tennessee; Durham, New Hampshire; Laramie, Wyoming; and Jackson, Tennessee.

I have not researched any of them myself, although I have a niece in Juneau who really loves it. I think I'd have to like the weather wherever I went and I've always been attracted to the Pacific Northwest in that regard (I like it cool, but not cold).

I'd also look at Missoula, MT, but only because I have a lot of family in that area.

None of these would be acceptable to DW by the way, so its all just idle speculation on my part.

[theanimal]

+1 JohnnyH and workathome

A "cheap" or low cost of living city is not entirely necessary for ERE. I think that property taxes, as JohnnyH stated, and other taxes on income/investments are important however as stated earlier in this thread.

The more I look at these Washington towns the more I like them. It seems as if the west, (possibly even more specifically the Pacific Northwest) is the ideal place for an ERE city based on most people's preferences who've commented in this thread.

[jennypenny]

I liked Juneau. I think it would work if you were going to split your time between two places.

I'd add parts of Idaho and northern Alabama to that list.

[thebbqguy]

One of my best friends lives in Cookeville, TN. One of my other best friends is from Jackson, TN. I used to live in Dickson, TN which in the middle of both on I-40. I like all three towns, but I'd also add Manchester, TN to the list.

[jacob]

I'm aiming for a cheap house in a nice (let's say "fun") area. Heck, I'll even aim for an RV or a mobile home if need be.

The reason is that I need/want the area to provide opportunities to do the kind of things I like to do. In particular, for there to be people around during daytime (when many people are working) to do things. I think this criteria is most easily fulfilled in bigger cities and/or in artsy/student oriented towns.

If I was aiming for solitude there are houses in central WA, around Aberdeen or Grayland that go for low tens.

But I don't think it would be very entertaining to live there for 50 years?!