Self-Confidence. I need it. Recommendations?

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livinlite
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Post by livinlite »

@ bigato: "Also, it also seems that our friend is already full of theories, isn't he? He could improve his theories and fix his perfectionism disease by getting his hands dirty."
In Zen parlance, the Lankavatara Sutra "contains but two teachings: that everything we perceive as being real is nothing but the perceptions of our own mind and that the knowledge of this is something that must be realized and experienced for oneself and cannot be expressed in words. In the words of Chinese Zen masters, these two teachings became known as “have a cup of tea” and “taste the tea.” " -- Red Pine
I need to "taste the tea" of letting go of attachment to my internalized versions of others' judgements on my self-worth and abilities...and take more actions (as posited above). If I don't, Bigato will whack me repeatedly with his kyosaku (until I get it) ;)


jacob
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Post by jacob »

Given the NF-ness ... could this be a search for the ephemeral goal of "authenticity". I know one other INFP well and she is pretty much into [trying] every [what I'd call] subjective philosophy (=the world is what we subjectively think it is) she comes across.
NFs try to build authenticity (subjective systems) much like NTs try to build world models (objective systems). It's the way of life so there really no escape.
The difference is that once their knowledge reached a level where they realize how little they understand, NT's often feel they're faking [to others] the understanding of the [external] world. By symmetry/analogy, NF's must feel like they're faking [to themselves] their understanding of themselves---I'd image this is not a nice feeling.
Just mentioning this as something to consider ... (I'm surprised that you mention self-confidence. I think of self-confidence as something else, but that may just be my NT angle.)


aussierogue
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Post by aussierogue »

@livinlite
I agree with chad it does sound like you have a plan you are slowly working towards. Infact, more than that, I would say that you seem to be well on your way to some sort of great self awareness. Lifes a journey and many of us do not get past go when it comes to understanding oursleves. I would say you are a long long way down the track and in truth you are pretty much there save for a little more time and some good luck. The process i think never ends.
One thing i reckon which you havent considered. Maybe, just maybe, those around you do not percieve you as the way you think they perceive you. You think they think you lack confidence but maybe deep down they respect you and like you for the deep thinking, human being that you are. All you need, crave etc is some validity....some status...something or someone to remind you that you are a success.
Most people have NO SHIT TOGETHER and pretty much the persona is all just a bluff. And most of these people are the first to offer advice. It seems to me you are building your future on some pretty solid foundations...keep rockin, chill and look for signs on where to go next. There is no right or wrong answer but keep reverting back to finding your authentic self (as you have been doing) and it will come.
I realise that there is a reality about "needing to earn a living and provide". I understand that fully. Deepak chopra touches on this alot in his 7 spiritual laws of success. Basically he says, and i agree, it doesnt matter what you do, there is always money to be made, so make sure what you do try and enjoy it. If you take teaching for example....yes you could be a teacher and get paid crap for 40 years. Or you could do it and also write a book on the subjects you are teaching. Or you could start your own school, or you could start a private tutoring business, or you could become an expert on one area and be asked to appear on TED!
So dont listed to the naysayers....do what you want!


Fred Tracy
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Post by Fred Tracy »

I'm surprised that things like Buddhism or non-dualism are things you'd say make you less confident, or more prone to anxiety! Those things helped me a lot. The biggest boost to my psyche was learning how to meditate, and watching all my problems melt away. Everything takes care of itself after you stop worrying about it.


dragoncar
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Post by dragoncar »

Jacob, I wasn't going to be the first to say it, but I totally agree that I'm missing the "self-confidence" aspect here. Reading the comments as an NT, I feel like I'm speaking a different language.


riparian
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Post by riparian »

Oh hey, I'm INFP too, and I've felt very similarly. Also I'm also good at sales, and know other introverts who are too.
A few things that have helped me:
1) In what area are you not confident of your ability? Test yourself and prove you can. (Things I've learned I can do: travel to strange places with no money, walk up to strangers naked with no qualifications except my awesomeness and get them to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on me, butcher a moose myself, etc). Then later you can remind yourself that you've tested your abilities so if something goes wrong the odds are good you couldn't have done much better. Logic is our friend.
2)How do people respond to you? Take notes for a day. It is likely that people will keep responding in the same way, no matter how you feel on the inside. Logic is our friend.
3) Ultimately you need to stop playing those scripts from your past, however you choose to do that.
Sorry so short, broken hand. Good luck!


George the original one
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Post by George the original one »

Thread hijack!
> Sorry so short, broken hand.
@riparian, I just gotta ask - how did you do that?
Heal carefully and take it easy now, OK?


before45
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Post by before45 »

@livinlite: This may be way off-base, but are you sure that what you want is to achieve more? A lot of your postings resonate with me, though I may just be projecting, and what I am working toward is becoming comfortable with letting go of achievement, purpose, goals. We get so many messages that we should achieve, and that we should want to achieve, but so much (not all of course) of what we achieve is objectively meaningless and environmentally harmful.
So I would just ask if you've double-checked with yourself that what you lack is self-confidence for what you really want, or if you lack ambition. If it's ambition you lack, instead of trying to force yourself to become ambitious, consider embracing your inner Taoist sage and stop pushing yourself?


livinlite
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Post by livinlite »

@FredTracy- "I'm surprised that things like Buddhism or non-dualism are things you'd say make you less confident, or more prone to anxiety!"
There's a bumper sticker I love..."Of course I'm out of my mind, it's dark and scary in there!" That's kind of the thing I was getting at when I said Buddhism/Meditation can lead to anxiety at times as it makes you much more aware of the thoughts and patterns of thoughts that run through your mind and influence your actions. I think everyone goes through periods where that makes things more difficult before they get easier. It comes and goes for me...but overall, Buddhism, nondualism, meditation, etc. have been extremely helpful in getting me to wherever it is that I am and healing alot of the sh8t I absorbed growing up.
I think earlier this week when I posted the first stuff on here, I was really wrapped up in my head. I'd just come back from visiting family for a few days, had a rough patch at work, and didn't handle it all very well. I was feeling really closed in and reverting to a lot of self-judgement and negating thinking around the future.
One thing I've picked up from Buddhism and elsewhere is the recognition that all things are impermanent - arising and passing - always changing. Usually, this gives me great comfort to remember that "this too shall pass"; including the negative funks I tend to get in. But from time to time, I lose sight of that and need to be reminded...
And that's where have more support comes in and that's some of the stuff I'm working up an action plan for and doing right now: avoiding negative stuff that is too much for me to handle at the moment (when I'm feeling the funk coming on), making sure I do the supportive practices I know are good for me and help keep me in a more stable state of mind, and continuing to work on reframing how I process the negative stuff that arises so I can continue to attach to it less and less over time.
Being able to let go of some of those things, or just let them be without giving them prominence or consideration, should over time help me build the confidence to do the things I want to do and lessen the fear and anxiety I have about trying new things or new ways of doing things.
When I talk about not having the self-confidence to achieve goals, that's what I'm after: just the ability to say, f8ck it, I'm going to give this a try because it's what interests me, and I'm not going to let all the negative-nelly's (internal or external) prevent me from living the life I'd like to live.
@before45 - My goals or intentions are pretty simple. I'd like to have a small house, with a little land (.25ac), in a smaller town, and be able to pay the bills by doing something that challenges me, yet fits my personality and skills, and creates some good in the world. Whether that makes me $200K/yr or $20K/yr, I'd like to think I'd be ok. Even if I don't ever get to buy the house, I'll be ok. On one level, none of it matters - its only through a curious twist of fate that my consciousness inhabits this body having this experience instead of a ditch-diggers in Abu-Dhabi. But on another level, this is the experience I have and so I try to make the best of it...without holding onto it too tight.
The self-confidence bit related to this comes from being able to be ok leaving the known, but relatively uncomfortable spot I'm in, to take a chance on doing something different. Maybe it's more learning to deal with fear/anxiety and understand empirical-world realities vs. conjured risks. And from being able to shut out, or not give credence to, the negative opinions of others that tell me I'm not ok unless I have x,y,z. I need to develop a little more self-confidence to trust that I know what's best for me.
Anyway, I'm getting there and I appreciate all the kind words here. Hopefully it helps others too who might stumble on this thread and gain a little inspiration.
@aussierogue: thank you for this - "I agree with chad it does sound like you have a plan you are slowly working towards. Infact, more than that, I would say that you seem to be well on your way to some sort of great self awareness. Lifes a journey and many of us do not get past go when it comes to understanding oursleves. I would say you are a long long way down the track and in truth you are pretty much there save for a little more time and some good luck. The process i think never ends. [...] It seems to me you are building your future on some pretty solid foundations...keep rockin, chill and look for signs on where to go next. There is no right or wrong answer but keep reverting back to finding your authentic self (as you have been doing) and it will come."
I'll end by saying, the confidence thing is only internal. I grew up an over-achiever, straight A student, gifted athlete, etc. The self I project into the world at work is one that is confident and capable; hence I've excelled at the work I've done, people like me, I get offered opportunities, and get high marks. BUT - I haven't been able to direct that over into moving from being good at something I don't really care about, but feel expected to do, into something that I do really care about, and really want to put my effort into. I need to see myself as being able to be successful at whatever I put my effort into: whether that is writing, teaching, childcare, gardening, or working in the more normative corporate world, but in a way that inspires me and does what I want.
Basically, the only thing holding ME back is ME. But through writing all this and interacting with you all here, I've realized a few things and feel ready to get after it; start taking actions, and see where the chips land.
Deep bows to you all. Looking forward to future conversations on here and being able to dole back the rewards I've been given these last few days.


Marlene
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Post by Marlene »

Hey livinlite!

Good to hear that you feel beter again and that you are taking action.
Some thoughts while reading through this:
Extroverts sometimes are only covering up their shyness - people around me never believe I´m actually quite shy but kind of chose attac as defense.
There is a book: Truth or dare which states (as far as I understand it) that in the current society there are patterns that are somehow taught implicit that sets us as Judges, Conquerers and Censors over ourself with as goal to keep us from our inherent power - the author is Starhawk and it´s a spiritual book, so probably not easy to read for everyone ;-)
Paulo Coelho might be an interesting author for you - he has a blog.
Supporting family: maybe I´m kind of old-fashioned: but is supporting the family not something *both* adults do?
And because you write/enjoy poems here something from Samuel Beckett:
"Ever tried. Ever failed.

No matter.

Try again. Fail again.

Fail better."
Or to paraphrase sport:

just go!


Chad
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Post by Chad »

@Bigato

I think we look at the mental side differently. It seems you classify much of the mental accomlishments as theory and, thus, ephemeral. While, I believe there are a lot of mental accomplishments that have more permanence.
Your chess example is a great one.
I could point to papers and presentations I have given, such as the one project for an EU Parliamentary member. The deliverable was a theory, but I still derive self-confidence from the accomplishment.
@livin lite
I'm a little late with this and it already has been said in different ways:
"When I talk about not having the self-confidence to achieve goals, that's what I'm after: just the ability to say, f8ck it, I'm going to give this a try because it's what interests me, and I'm not going to let all the negative-nelly's (internal or external) prevent me from living the life I'd like to live."
From this and your other comments, it does sound like the bigger side of this is some type of internal construct with a definition of failure that is conflicting with current goals and changes your conscious mind wants to implement. You probably created this framework back when you were:
"...grew up an over-achiever, straight A student, gifted athlete, etc."
It was probably very helpful then, as all of that was within societal norms. Now that you have goals and desires outside of those norms part of your prior internal construct/definition of failure is sending out a warning signal.
I would think the only way to change it is to be concious of it and actively "break" it.


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