Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

[ertyu]

So here's a weird suggestion about the loneliness: at home, when you are at peace, lie down somewhere calm-inducing (dim light if you like it, weighted blanket if you have one and enjoy it, etc, just enjoy), put on a timer for 15 min, and then attempt the following: call up the state you wish your body/insides/feelings were in when you are around your team or whoever. Doesn't have to be the team. You can just postulate a faceless group of friendly individuals who like and accept you. You don't have to visualize, let alone clearly, you don't have to picture yourself talking to them, none of that. You just have to call up on the inside the state you would be in and how you would feel / what it would be like for you on the inside if you were accepted and liked. If you get distracted, go, oh bummer i totally got carried away, and go back to it.

Do this daily.

What I predict would happen is that in the beginning you would have a hard time calling up this state. Keep trying to imagine being in the presence of people who like and accept you. If you give it time, I predict you will start getting a better and better handle on that state. You will sense how it feels different. You will sense where your body was tense but now isn't. You might feel sad - if sads come, sad them out, bawl if you need to, it's a free world and fuck the haters. But overall I predict that even if unpleasant shit does get released from time to time, on the whole, the experience would be positive. I think it will be relaxing and calming and you will like it. I think it will be regenerating after a day of work shit (if you find you want to do it more, increase your timer).

Another thing I predict will happen, but very very slowly, is that your body will start to be slooooooowly sloooooowly and very partially more relaxed in the presence of other monkeys. Monkeys are fun like that, social animals etcetera, they sense this shit. I predict that sloooooowly - like, don't sit around going, are we there yet are we there yet why isn't it happening, oh shit today was awful, this isn't working at all - sloooooowly you will be less tense around your coworkers, there will be less tension in your voice when you say things to them, and they will be less tense around you. I predict that you will eventually begin to feel bit by bit better when in the presence of other humans.

"Go to therapy" isn't an insult. It just means, "shit dude, I wish you got some help with that." I also seem to remember you mistrust therapists because you think it's in their best interest not to help you so they can keep you in therapy for longer. Which is fine -- it's where you are, and if you feel this way, something or another mustve happened that made this make sense in light of your experiences. Some therapists do suck. Finding a good one is a pain. Luckily, you don't have to go to therapy to start working on shit.

There's two broad venues of working on shit. One is cognitive, the other is somatic. They both help differently. For the cognitive, try the book Feeling Good by David Burns. It's old, and it's a classic. It will help with the extent to which the shitty way you feel is caused by cognitive distortions but it won't help completely. For the more somatic approach, try the book Tapping In - A Step By Step Guide for Ativating Your Healing Resources Through Bilateral Stimulation by Laurell Parnell. It sounds terribly woo, but she is a renowned British therapist who started a branch of EMDR therapy and trains therapists (the reason why it sounds woo is that she's into non-dual Buddhist meditation and sometimes the "we all are love and light" parts can get weird to people who've never had these experiences. She's weird to me, and I'm woo lol). What's in this book is the EMDR a honcho EMDR therapist says you can do by yourself at home without hurting yourself. There is zero danger to you from using either of these books.

In the end, you deserve to feel better. There's no reason why you shouldn't give yourself that regardless of what the world around you is or isn't like.

[Scott 2]

No insult intended. I saw my therapist yesterday. Among my generation in the US, I know far more people who've worked with a therapist, than have not. Admittedly, that level of access is also a sign of privilege in my social circle.

Mental healthcare sometimes benefits from external support. It's like going to the doctor or dentist. If your tooth hurt, you would see someone. Same thing.

[zbigi]

@oku
I don't think therapists will "deem your thoughts unacceptable" (unless they're terrible at therapy). Therapists are explicitly taught not to judge, but instead to try help their patients find a path that has, at the very least, less suffering in it.

[delay]

From what I hear, educated Americans go to a therapist all the time, they talk about it as a privilege of social status, and think of it positively. Europeans think mental therapy is for deplorables who have given up on themselves and rely on a state therapist to put them back together. Kind of the opposite of the spectrum! What do you think of cultural confusion as an explanation?

[jacob]

From what I hear, educated Americans go to a therapist all the time, they talk about it as a privilege of social status, and think of it positively. Europeans think mental therapy is for deplorables who have given up on themselves and rely on a state therapist to put them back together. Kind of the opposite of the spectrum! What do you think of cultural confusion as an explanation?

Ha! No wonder I'm conflicted about it. The simplest explanation would be how the two continents approach health care. In Europe, health care is really meant for the sick. The fact that Americans talk about "health insurance" and many Europeans talk about "sick insurance" is not just a euphemism. In Europe, you only go to the doctor when you're sick and the job of the primary doctor is to triage the resources of the specialists. As such, if you do end up seeing a specialist in Europe, there's most likely something wrong with you.

Whereas in the US, health care is a consumer product that people pursue to the extent they can afford it and want to pay for it. To the extent that enough people pursue something, it becomes acceptable and even popular. It becomes a status marker.

See, for example, the recent "longevity trend", which started in Silicon Valley, or the journals, where people pursue fancy blood work to super-optimize their health. This is available because they pay for it and so the doctor-market offers it. I think it's the same with psychological services. Many people (both Europeans and Americans) could surely benefit from therapy. However, only affluent people in the US actually has an option of paying for it. As such US therapists offer many more services such as life coaching or even just someone to talk to for an hour and paid by the hour, whereas EU therapists mainly treat people with actual mental illnesses. Conversely, in the US if you do have a mental illness of sorts and can't afford it and you don't have enough social capital to compensate, it's possible to end up in prison or on the street instead.

[guitarplayer]

DW and I were talking about taking some complex blood tests whilst being in Poland as they cost ‘only’ around up to $140 compared to several times the amount in the UK.

Also, Psychology is generally US driven these days (compared to 100 years ago), so there is a huge internal push to shape psychology and mental health in positive terms - and to in consequence arrive at the American perception of mental health, therapy etc.

I think it is possible for these to swallow heaps of personal resources, aka spending life on maintenance.

We decided against taking the blood tests on this occasion.

[okumurahata]

The issue with therapy, despite the conflict of interests between the therapist and the client (therapists want subconsciously to maximise their profit), is that it assumes there's something broken and in need of fixing. What’s worse, it presupposes that something is broken simply because it deviates n sigmas from the mean. "This person has a mental disorder because most patients didn't exhibit this behaviour." It's like Procustes fitting people to his bed and cutting off heads and legs, instead of recognising that the bed should accommodate different kinds of people. I wonder how many patients, suffering, pills, ‘mental illnesses’, etc. society must endure before realising that perhaps most people are not ill, but are simply struggling with the pressures of being tortured for eight hours a day, dealing with demanding bosses, difficult coworkers, and a life filled with dependencies that, in the end, contribute to illness. I'm only suggesting that the symptoms I'm experiencing and describing here, might be a result of the metaphorical strap around my neck, because for some brief periods without it, my mind was more serene. If an objective measurement could be conducted by a third party to ascertain if someone was mentally ill, akin to a blood test, I would be less sceptical of the psychology and therapy industry.

[guitarplayer]

Hmm maybe you have some poor experiences with psychotherapists. I am not one but I took some courses on it. Briefly, there are three kinds of norms entertained in the context of clinical psychology / psychotherapy. The first one is about sigmas and deviation from mean, but this is mostly or only used in research, comparing groups of people, or famously in IQ testing. Second is cultural norm which is basically kegan level 3, what most people around do and maybe what you are describing. Then there is the normative approach which has the ‘should’ or assumes a model of human development. You have psychodynamic, cognitive behavioural, behavioural, there are some niche ones. Here you can shop around, there’s heaps of choice. I’ve come across therapists who cater to people of particular religious denomination etc. I think that here it is mostly about compatibility of outlook on life plus therapists need some genetic skills, like for example good listening skills, avoiding asking leading questions, not confronting unnecessarily (and there might be guidelines as to when to confront), such stuff.

There is actually also a psychotherapy school based on systems theory with one notable proponent being Paul Waltzlawick. The main critique from therapists about it is that it is difficult to implement ! I think this one would be a perfect candidate for an eresque form of therapy

[okumurahata]

Remember the old man with whom I had a nice relationship at work? Today, at the weekly meeting, the director said that we won’t see him again; he got fired. Technically, not fired—they won’t renew his contract. Things turn paranoid when layoffs start, especially when you depend on the same budget as this guy. Remember when I said they probably wanted to extend my contract? Well…

These days, I’ve tried @ertyu's suggestions to close my eyes and feel like I’m with people who accept me as I am. I don’t know if it’s working, but what I can say is that I find it difficult to focus. I’ve been meditating intermittently for many years, but now my mind is screaming constantly. I wake up randomly at midnight and find it difficult to get back to sleep. Anyway, thanks for the suggestions @ertyu and for the book recommendations. When my mind is clearer, I’ll read them. Now I can’t focus for more than 20 minutes.

I have also been binging the forum and took the test on masking, scoring over 100—I believe it was 118, though I don’t remember exactly. It’s clear that I try to act normal with other people to feel more protected. It’s almost certain that I’m a weirdo trying to appear regular at my job.

Yesterday, I cried at my desk at home after a meeting, and I felt pathetic. In 15 days, my contract ends. I followed @Scott 2's suggestion to try to negotiate the contract. A couple of weeks ago, I asked the director if I could talk with her about renewing, she said okay but I’m still waiting for her to schedule a meeting. I won’t approach her again, but if they offer me the same type of contract, I’ll let it go. Only if there is a substantial rise would I think about it, but not under these circumstances. Anyway, seeing how things went today, they probably won’t renew the contract, so negotiating won’t be an option. If there is something more pathetic that crying at your desk; that is trying to negotiate a contract when you’re going to get fired.

Anyway, it’s strange how things can change so fast, but it’s a good strategy to tell people that they are going to stay longer so you can squeeze them until the end of the contract. Otherwise, people will find open doors sooner.

Jobs are nothing but creating false illusions and promises in people. I feel like a job today, because I break my promise of not writing until the start of the month. I fall again because it feels like therapy. Well, if there is God, please help me.

[Henry]

These days, I’ve tried @ertyu's suggestions to close my eyes and feel like I’m with people who accept me as I am.

Closing your eyes and dreaming only gets you so far. My suggestion is to do what everyone else does when forced to face reality. Look the other way.

[ertyu]

When my mind is clearer, I’ll read them. Now I can’t focus for more than 20 minutes.

You take care of yourself, don't read whatever cause someone told you, do what feels healing for you. In general, concentration meditation is calming -- variations include, relax as you feel the smoothness of your breath and try to enjoy your breath, picture you're at a calming place and try to make the experience vivid, I know someone who was religious who liked to picture god on his throne and sitting at the feet of god (who knows why that image worked for them, but if it works, it works). So don't get stuck on what I say; do what you think will give your vagus nerve a break.

If that guy you liked is getting let go, now might be the time to send him a message along the lines of, "hey dude, I really enjoyed our interactions at work and really valued your advice on XYZ. I would love to hang out for beer/coffee/[choose something culturally appropriate - americans like "to grab lunch"]. Here's my contact info, I'd be glad to hear from you if you feel like you'd like to continue a friendship beyond work. If not, I wish you all the best."

Imo go get that library job for a while again. Don't push yourself into higher earnings in an institutional setting if all it does is make you miserable. You can apply for freelance opportunities as you work at the library.

[Biscuits and Gravy]

Oku, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. It’s okay to cry; it’s not pathetic in the least bit. And everyone struggles with starting conversations with coworkers and broaching tough topics with their bosses. Are you open and vulnerable with your partner? Are they supportive of your struggles? Withdrawing from people and the world is certainly tempting, but connection and love are as essential to our health and survival as shelter and food. Please take care of yourself.

[Henry]

So on one side, Oku should close his eyes and imagine a world where Everybody Loves Oku, write love letters to his male co-workers, and cry to his wife. On the other side (me) Oku should man up, grow a pair and stare down the shotgun barrel of his own futility and mortality as he lives in a world that will always be hostile to him, until his death when it turns amnesiac. At least if he chooses my door, he won't be disappointed.

[Biscuits and Gravy]

Sure, he’s got options. IME, manning up does not equal shutting down, withdrawing, and closing off. It’s much harder and more satisfying to challenge yourself, grow, open up, invite vulnerability, and be vulnerable.

[Henry]

manning up does not equal shutting down, withdrawing, and closing off.

Since when?

[ertyu]

BAHAHAHA

Good one, Henry.

Seriously, tho, care and loving connections are nice when you have them, but when you don't have them, you don't have them. It's hard to, on a daily basis, be surrounded by people who subtly and not so subtly signal they dislike you and they'd rather not interact; some days the best we've got is the safety of having none of that shit around. And in that safety, one can allow oneself to breathe and relax a bit. Whoever has supportive connections, sure, enjoy. But if one doesn't, just taking the time to appreciate that there are times which are neutral and the suck is missing can be very healing and nice

ETA: I think I got triggered. And why I got triggered is, when I was a Baby Depressive (TM) -- say, junior year of college -- and was terrified about how i was gonna make it through life, I screamed myself sore reaching out for help. I tried to get help from my parents. I tried to see school shrinks. I saw 2 different shrinks at one time because the one wasn't helping - then I let it slip and the first one threw a fit when she found out, and talked to me about how hurt and disappointed she was (meanwhile I was like, doe I thought I was supposed to be the crazy one that pastes my issues on the therapeutic relationship here). I tried reaching out to friends, and what I got in response was, idk dude, that's not fun, wish I cared. So I read self-help book after self-help book -- that's when I started being obsessed w reading shrink books in the hopes of shrinking myself -- and every single self-help book was like, "reach out for help, there's no shame in it, there's no need to tough it alone" and all I could feel was blinding anger.

This is the deal with shitty mental health: people with shitty mental health often have shitty mental health because their shitty mental health has made them weird and they've alienated everyone. As a reasult, their mental health has gotten even shittier. Seriously, did you think if supporting and caring relationships were something that existed for us, we wouldn't have reached out? Or that we're stupid and we don't know how important connection is. In every single relationship I have, I give more than I take because when I ask for help - for someone to talk to me in a focused way and put the rest of their social media away and open their heart to me and my issues - I don't get it. I find the whole "don't isolate yourself" thing so condescending. What is better - take care of myself in the safe space i've cleared for myself, or continue to try to reach out and get it rubbed in my face that no one can be fucked?

So, yeah, I got triggered. Bah -- seems like today is not the day, I got triggered all over Frita's thread too. I'll get off the internet and take a page off my book picturing some pretty mountain lake or something, I'm not for human interaction today seems like

[okumurahata]

June 2024 update:

Code: Select all

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Assets
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stocks: 43.446,81 EUR
Cash: 20.609,03 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 64.055,84 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Liabilities
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Debt: 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly income
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Job: 2.300 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 2.300 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly expenses
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rent: 500 EUR
Electricity: ~40 EUR
Water: ~20 EUR
Internet: 40 EUR
Food: ~400 EUR
Gym: ~50 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 1.050 EUR
+----------------------------------+

Progress until retirement (considering 25x yearly expenses):

Code: Select all

⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 20,3%

I can try to be kind to my mental health, as @ertyu suggested, and experiment to find what works best for me. This might involve going back to the library or engaging in activities like meditation or visualisation exercises to bring peace to my mind. I like to experiment, so I appreciate all kinds of suggestions. Alternatively, I can follow @Henry's approach, suck it up, play the game, and get out of the jail as quickly as possible.

Both approaches have their pros and cons, so the most rational thing to do likely lies somewhere in the middle. Perhaps it's a matter of enduring the situation until I can no longer stand it (I'm close to that point now), then taking a lighter job to recuperate mentally. Once I'm ready, I can push myself in a new institution again. It could be corporate or freelance work.

In conclusion, it seems that it's a dilemma between salary and mental health. Right now, the compensation doesn't seem worth the damage it's causing. In 14 days, we'll see what happens. If I had to bet, they won't renew my contract, or if they do, the salary will remain the same, which would be disappointing. It might then be time to rest and recover from the stress until I can endure another period of intense work and move closer to retirement.

[Scott 2]

Bummer about your work friend. @ertyu's advice to reach out is very good. He might be able to use some support and could enjoy offering you a little mentoring.


A few observations:


1. Everyone cries about work. A huge portion of your life is uncertain and largely outside of your control. It's bound to be upsetting at times.


2. I don't know your cultural norms, but I would schedule the follow-up meeting with your director. The conversation: "I'd like to talk more about my contract, is now good? No? Can I put some time on the calendar for tomorrow? You need some more information first? When will you have that? Ok, this is important to me, how about I block a placeholder for us then? We can move it if needed."

You have a right to clarity. Even if the answer is "we are not renewing your contract". Asserting your needs is how uncertainty will be resolved. If you and the company cannot find common ground, that is simply a fact. It's not the determinant of your value, but rather a reflection of their current need. Many factors influence that.


3. Wishing you strength on the masking. It is wearing. A break may be good.

[Henry]

So Uko leaves this pointless, dreary job and finds another where he walks around the office encircled by phalanx of angels and his coworkers are constantly grabbing at the hems of his garments because they think they have healing powers. The coffee pot is always on brew, nobody stands next to Oku at the urinal, the boss looks like Heidi Klum but thinks like Jensen Huang, and Oku gets a raise and an award every day so both his wife and kids think he's the greatest head of household who ever lived. Now if I was the Devil, this is how I would keep Oku enslaved to a job.