AE's Journal Round 6 - Navigating the Liminal Space

[Western Red Cedar]

Moving
I'm realizing I have to dump everything from my schedule except self-care and moving tasks, which I've been making progress on. Instead of moving to Boulder, what I have decided I'm going to do is rent some three month rentals in different cities and travel for awhile before settling down. I think it would benefit me to see more of the country again instead of just staying in Colorado. If I decide I love Colorado the most, I'll just come back.

This means downsizing everything I own into the size of a car basically, which is an absolutely enormous task. So much work, and I don't even own that much! I have a new appreciation for minimalism as I'm realizing 95% of what I own is not really required. Like, my book collection can be sold and replaced with kindle books, I don't really need 90% of my kitchen gadgets, etc. I'm pretty much just giving most of this away as I've come to see my time as more valuable than money here.

Having just finished up packing and decluttering over multiple months, I can empathize with you. Try to accomplish a bit each day and give yourself more time than you think you might need. We spent a few months slowly downsizing and preparing for a move, but it still ended in a week of 16 hour days packing/cleaning/moving. There is definitely wisdom in getting rid of everything at the outset, but you can always just rent a storage unit for the time being if that makes life easier. I didn't want to give up much of my library, and definitely not my record collection, so storage was necessary. DW and I weren't sure what the next stages of life would look like down the road, so it made sense to hold onto a lot of stuff (kitchen gadgets, bicycles, camping/backpacking gear, sewing machine, art supplies, parts of the wardrobe, etc...).

If you decide to move around, I'd second New Orleans as a great option. It is a particularly unique American city that clearly values the arts. You'd just need to carefully select what time of year you'd visit or stay.

One downside with moving periodically is that it is hard to establish and settle into routines. While that provides a level of excitement, it also demands some cognitive bandwidth. In my recent experience, it demands a bit more discipline when prioritizing health.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. I tend to lean towards the notion that travel and experiencing new places will get harder as I'm older, so I'm prioritizing that now.

[jacob]

There's some advantage in not being tethered to a storage unit. Both in terms of not having to return to the place of storage but also because a storage unit easily turns into way to pay rent on past and present procrastination. It might even take up space in one's mind until it's dealt with.

Having moved [long-distances] several times, I'd say the only advantage of holding onto stuff is if 1) your destination address is known before the move; but 2) more importantly, you're moving into a bigger place than the one you came from. Otherwise, you'll spend a good while in your new home being surrounded by moving boxes and sorting through them again.

On the other hand, if you're very particular---like ERE-like particular---in how you acquire your stuff, then it takes about two years to rebuild a home from scratch by bidding on eBay, waiting for the perfect table, which of course also must be free or nearly so, to pop up on craigslist, and so on. The alternative is a trip to Ikea for matched furniture and Target for appliances, like a normal person, but that's going to set you back a couple of thousand and it doesn't come will cool stories.

I'm not sure that travel and experiencing new places will get harder with age until one gets close to a terminal age (medical risks). Or maybe I'm just not old enough yet. It's more that it gets less interesting the more one has done it. This might just be a temperamental thing though. One thing for sure though is that the type of travel offered does vary with age unless you don't mind sticking out like a sore thumb.

In terms of downsizing, I do suggest: viewtopic.php?t=6255 It's easier than dealing with a bunch of online listings.

[Ego]

From what I have seen, people almost always regret storing the big stuff. List furniture on craigslist or facebook marketplace (best). Start high and gradually lower the price. If it does not sell, lower it to free and it will disappear within 24 hours. We always try to avoid buying anything that will not fit into the car we own.

[macg]

RE: Downsizing - get rid of everything unless it's an heirloom in your mind

I second what people are asking - make sure your change of plans isn't your brain tricking you into not doing anything. My advice is just leave - that's what I did years ago. Ended up in an RV for a bunch of years, but the first step was just selling the house and being forced to just leave.

Savannah is a neat city. Relatively inexpensive, comparatively. But again, at this point my advice is just go anywhere you want. Even if it's expensive, if it's someplace you want to go, just do it - it's the change that is needed, the location can always be changed again and again as you experience more and decide more on your priorities.

Best of luck!

[AnalyticalEngine]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. What I've decided is that I am probably overthinking this and need to spend less time analyzing the decision and more time executing/actually doing something. So I'm going to put a lot of effort into the actual act of moving itself because downsizing/dealing with the house/etc is way more time consuming than anything else. I'll post back in this journal once I've actually made significant progress.

[grundomatic]

And if anyone has suggestions for where I should try first, I'd love to hear it! Currently, the list includes Washington DC, NYC, and San Fransisco.

Tucson, AZ, starting in October (don't come in June). We can be hiking in short sleeves for the following months while everyone else is pouting about cold weather.

[macg]

So I'm going to put a lot of effort into the actual act of moving itself because downsizing/dealing with the house/etc is way more time consuming than anything else. I'll post back in this journal once I've actually made significant progress.

I enjoyed the downsizing process every time I have done it. The time I sold the house and ended up in the RV that I mentioned before was the biggest single downsizing event I have done. For context, it was the house I grew up in, and accumulated the "stuff" from my parents who had passed away some years before. Comparatively to other people's houses, it was really not too much stuff - no sort of hoarding situation or anything. I had a few strategies:

• Everything that sparks a memory or "joy" does not have to be kept. I took a ton of pictures of things, and got rid of the actual item. I get the same memory or joy from looking at the picture.

• I knew I didn't want to be held down by physical items, so I was pretty brutal about getting rid of stuff. That being said, it's been over a dozen years, and I have yet to think "I wish I had XX item".

• Our family did not have any antique/heirloom furniture - I did not keep any furniture myself.

• As I processed, anything that I felt I really "wanted/needed to keep", I set aside in a pile. As things progressed, I would go through that pile again and again, whittling it down.

• I did keep some things - trinkets really, nothing that anyone else would find valuable. But they are valuable to me. Overall it ended up about a medium-sized box worth.

• During this particular downsizing, I did not have to deal with my books/comics/CDs/DVDs - all of those I had done at various times prior to this, as I had been in a minimalism-type phase for years

• For things you want to sell, especially older/fairly valuable things and/or furniture, check out local auction houses. I was able to drop off a bunch of things at the one near me, and was able to net a few thousand dollars - and I didn't have to go through the pain of trying to sell it myself. Of course, you have to accept that it could be sold for way less than you want, or not sold at all ... I personally didn't care.

I believe that I grew up different then most families I knew. My Dad would have been considered a minimalist, although he never would have put a name like that on it - I once helped him move all of his belongings in one trip in a mid-1980s Jeep Wrangler soft-top, including a waterbed and tube TV ... my mom grew up poor and never really got the bug to accumulate things. So I have the mindset that makes it easier to not put tons of emotional value on physical things. Not everyone (in my experience, most people) can't/don't have that mindset. Which is fine, I don't have judgement - it's just in a situation like downsizing, it was an advantage for me.

Best of luck, and if you think of any questions that I might be able to help with, let me know!

[grundomatic]

@macg

Great, this means your move to Tucson along with AE to start ERE city will be easy-peasy.

[Jin+Guice]

Yes!!!!! Move! Move! Move!

Tucson, AZ, starting in October (don't come in June). We can be hiking in short sleeves for the following months while everyone else is pouting about cold weather.

OMG if you come to New Orleans in October we can ruin your life in an afternoon.

[grundomatic]

OMG if you come to New Orleans in October we can ruin your life in an afternoon.

Ok, I know you are trying to start ERE city in Tucson @grundomatic, but these problems would be solved for you in New Orleans. People here really hate to work.

I told DW about these conversations and she started looking up pet sits in New Orleans. You might get a chance to sell us.

[Western Red Cedar]

I'm not sure that travel and experiencing new places will get harder with age until one gets close to a terminal age (medical risks). Or maybe I'm just not old enough yet. It's more that it gets less interesting the more one has done it. This might just be a temperamental thing though. One thing for sure though is that the type of travel offered does vary with age unless you don't mind sticking out like a sore thumb.

I think the social and psychological variables can be just as or more significant than the physical factors. Aging parents and family obligations are major considerations for my peer group as we approach our 40's.

I think @ego discussed the importance of making radical, lifestyle changes periodically to keep that skill sharp. The comfort or familiarity of the status quo often makes it challenging to pursue alternatives.

[jacob]

Great, this means your move to Tucson along with AE to start ERE city will be easy-peasy.

Kindly put up a case for Tucson in the ERE City thread? Same format as the other three so far, please.

I talked to DW and she's at least willing to entertain the idea of living in a desert now (probably because allergy season has started here).

[Jin+Guice]

I told DW about these conversations and she started looking up pet sits in New Orleans. You might get a chance to sell us.

Cool, lmk if you guys are coming. Check that I'm around and available if you want me to be around and available. I am definitely not available the last week of April and the first week of May.

[AnalyticalEngine]

Solar Eclipse

I drove out to Little Rock to see the total solar eclipse. The eclipse was happening on my birthday, so I figured that was something I had to experience. Let me tell you, like the grand canyon, it was something that completely blew my mind away! Honest to god, the experience was transcendental. Having experienced the partial eclipse in 2017, let me say there is a huge difference between the totality and the partial eclipse.

What really struck me was how quickly it got dark. Like it's still fairly bright, if a little fuzzy, even up to 99% coverage. But in that last 1%, it gets so dark so fast, and there's this brief moment where the moon completely covers the sun and the sky is fully dark for an instant before the corona lights up and you get that halo effect around the moon. Then it's dark enough that you can see the stars in the sky in the middle of the day, and all the birds started going crazy when it got dark.

What also amazed me was how brief it was. Like it's an incredible thing, looking up in the sky and seeing the moon and the corona and the darkness, and then you can see the diamond edge of the sun growing brighter as the moon moves, and then it moves aware and the light comes back. The totality in Little Rock was only 2 and a half minutes long, and it was over as quickly as it begun.

The experience of totality was transcendental, and I can see why people chase these things their whole lives after seeing just one. Words cannot even begin to do the experience justice.

There was also something powerful with how incredible and rare the event was and yet how much nature did not give a single fuck if I got to see it or not. I was originally in Dallas but drove up to Little Rock at the last minute because Dallas was supposed to have cloud coverage that day (luckily the forecast cleared enough for them at the last minute, so they got to see it too, but I wasn't going to take any chances). The whole experience was so profound, with how rare it is to get a full solar eclipse, how lucky I was to be able to even see it due to the unpredictable spring weather, how it was so powerful yet over so quickly. It shook me to the bone with how fleeting yet profound the experience was that I was holding back tears during the totality.

Routine, Yields, and Flows
Driving out here majorly disrupted my routine, in both a good and bad way, as well as gave me a lot of time alone with my thoughts. What it made me realize is that traveling is harder than staying in one spot in terms of building a system because you're constantly moving and the environment is less predictable. So if I want to pull off traveling more, and not resort to expensive hotels and shitty fast food, I need to have a better system in place for it. It also made me realize that just changing my environment, while useful in getting unstuck from a rut, might not actually help me if I'm not also combining it with new behaviors and new goals.

So longer term, I'm thinking a strategy where I have a solid routine in terms of self-care that I can do even while traveling (diet, exercise, sleep, etc) combined with deliberate prototypes of more extreme lifestyle change is the way to go. More about this to come later.

[ertyu]

AE, I meant to ask you but I keep forgetting -- you've spoken in the past about meditation feeling depersonalizing. What is it about the meditation you're doing now that's useful rather than depersonalizing compared to your previous efforts? How are you meditating differently?

[AnalyticalEngine]

The main difference is understanding meditation modalities better and selecting the right one for the problem I'm trying to solve. Also other lifestyle adjustments have minimized the depersonalization (cutting out caffeine and exercise).

Before, I was doing a lot of those "breath counting" and guided visualization meditations, which I do find to be depersonalizing even now. I think it might be a brain wiring issues. I'm easily hypnotizable so these meditations just tend to send me off into my own head and I can get stuck there even when I'm done, hence the depersonalization.

Zazen is different. You basically stare at the wall with your eyes open while sitting in the vaguely painful lotus posture and try to stay as present with the moment as possible. Present centeredness is a skill I'm working on so zazen has helped a lot. Also, the vaguely painful lotus posture helps because pain tends to be anti-dissociative.

The reason zazen has helped with depression is you just sit there with your thoughts while trying to stay present, which has made me aware of how repetitive and useless and negative about 90% of what goes on inside my head is. That is, I can sit there and stew about work, for example, but work is not "real" in the same way the present moment of zazen is real at that moment. It trains you to put space between the unreality of your head and experience the realness of the moment more, which is helpful with depression because depression mostly consists of being mentally locked inside your own negative mental prison.

So, stuff that's about present centeredness helps, zone out breath counting or visualization, not so much.

[grundomatic]

The reason zazen has helped with depression is you just sit there with your thoughts while trying to stay present, which has made me aware of how repetitive and useless and negative about 90% of what goes on inside my head is.

In the The Power of Now, Tolle brought up how most people would view someone just spouting off all their thoughts out loud as crazy, and then pointed out that it isn't really much different to do the same thing quietly in your head. It was quite a perspective change for me.

[AnalyticalEngine]

That's a good way to describe it. It's also why Plotkin or Jung suggest the sub personality framework—it creates distance between you and your negative thoughts, which both makes you more aware they're happen and aware of the fact they have very little basis in reality.

I think what happens with depression specifically, especially if you are a chronic over thinker, is that our brains like to find patterns and tell stories about the world around us. Sometimes these stories are useful ("walk in the crosswalk or you might get hit by a car",) but other times, they are complete nonsense ("do the ceremonial rain dance to summon rain" or "my star alignment says I should wear purple today.") Depression takes this story telling functionality of the brain and starts spinning up stories that are as nonsensical as wearing purple so your investments go up except the story is that either yourself or the world is fundamentally "bad" somehow. Realizing that about 95% of what I'm thinking at any moment has zero basis in reality and I'm better off ignoring it like some negative hater is trying to bring me down has helped a lot. The thoughts are still there but they don't need to mean anything.

[ertyu]

Thank you for explaining about zazen.

About subpersonalities, it's not just Plotkin and Jung; there's many therapy branches that would ask, "if your adhd was a person, who would they be? what would they look like? how old? appearance? gender?" This one guy in a demonstration therapy session called his adhd dave and decided he's a beavis and butthead sort of character -- then the therapist would ask questions like, "and was that you or was that dave?" when the patient was talking about struggling with some task. In another branch of pop-psychology, Rational Recovery, one is invited to see the part of oneself that wants to drink as a pathetic paraplegic who can't do anything on its own but who would lie cheat or trick one in any way imaginable to get one to get it its next fix. This creature is declared the enemy: it would not hesitate to kill you in the process of getting its fix, so this is war. One is invited to respond in kind and defeat it. Etcetera.

Changing tracks, it's interesting to me that for you, exercise was something that worsened depersonalization. It's quite often touted as the opposite: what one does to get "grounded." Seems like, as with everything else, there's a right way and a wrong way. Would you mind sharing what about exercise ended up depersonalizing?

Caffeine is also interesting because it's also touted as something you take "to focus" -- which implies greater presence. I'd be very curious to hear more about your thoughts and discoveries re exercise and caffeine and how they work (or not) for you.

[AnalyticalEngine]

I should clarify that exercise helped limit the depersonalization but caffeine made it worse. The issue with caffeine is that it increases my anxiety, and depersonalization is something that will hit me if I exceed my stress tolerance. I actually love caffeine, the energy from has been important in managing the depressive low energy, but these days, I have to limit how much I consume because it causes anxiety. I currently only drink 1 cup of black tea a day and intend to switch to green tea soon, as pretty much any psychoactive substance (alcohol, weed, caffeine, whatever) messes up my brain.

-----

In other news, I found a converted Chevy camper van at a car dealership near me that I'm considering buying. My road trip to Arkansas and the many roach motels I stayed at made the idea of a van conversion more appealing. I'm going to do some more research before getting anything, but I'm starting to think that I'm better off moving to Boulder then going on some trips in the van instead of doing any permanent nomad thing. The nomad thing seems to involve more stress and lifestyle disruptions than I can handle currently and runs counter to some other goals like building community.