Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

[Scott 2]

Why not negotiate for what you want, since you're already prepared to walk away? What's the downside?

[okumurahata]

@Scott 2,

Upper management receives approximately €60k/year, middle management around €45k/year, and ICs around €35k/year. However, as an IC, I'm capped at €45k, which they won't offer. I also would want to change teams, project, building, logos, the smell of the toilettes. Oh, and work remotely 100% of the time. Perhaps I could negotiate something close to my wildest desires, but I'm not confident in my negotiation skills, so I expect to receive a very average deal.

The question is, even if I were to receive the best possible deal, would it be worth staying here? I feel like being here is negatively impacting who I am as human. I used to be more confident before starting here, but now I feel like a failure. When you are in the bench for a long time, you start to doubt if you are a capable football player.

On the other hand, it's increasingly difficult to see the same people every day for such a long time. Small annoyances in their personalities become amplified over time. I wish I could stay here longer, but every day feels like a psychological battle with myself…

[Scott 2]

Perhaps I could negotiate something close to my wildest desires, but I'm not confident in my negotiation skills, so I expect to receive a very average deal.

This is a chance to learn. Even if you have zero intention of staying - real stakes are on the table. You could simply say - "To fit with my life, I'd need full remote, X duties, and €50k." Justified by a need to meet obligations at home and broaden your experience.

Maybe they come back with 1 day a week hybrid and €45k. If it's not acceptable, you get the experience of negotiating to the point where you walk. Unless you're a total savage about it, the conversation will only gain you respect and value. The action is confidence building. It feels powerful.

[okumurahata]

You are correct, @Scott2. I'll give it a try as an experiment and comment on the results here. My biggest fear is that they might give me what I ask for... Anyway, there's nothing to lose. Let's see. I'll ask for 50k and a fully remote position as an IC. My prediction is that I'll receive a counteroffer of 40k and 3 remote days.

[comandante]

My biggest fear is that they might give me what I ask for...

I think I've had that fear also. They might accommodate your frustrations into a corner, and chain them with your own words. I guess you can minimize this fear by having a very clear idea of what would work for you, and not giving in too much in the negotiation.

[mathiverse]

You can also say no even if they give you what you want!!! You don't have to defend, justify, or explain. "Thanks for the generous offer, but I've decided to go in a different direction." Leave it at that.

Of course, you can also take it, if you want.

[guitarplayer]

You can also say no even if they give you what you want!!!

Yes, I was going to say the exact thing.

[ertyu]

40k and 3 remote days will be a huge improvement to now. good luck, i hope the negotiations develop in your favor

[okumurahata]

May 2024 update:

Code: Select all

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Assets
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stocks: 42.829,09 EUR
Cash: 19.228,86 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 62.057,95 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Liabilities
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Debt: 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly income
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Job: 2.300 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 2.300 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly expenses
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rent: 500 EUR
Electricity: ~40 EUR
Water: ~20 EUR
Internet: 40 EUR
Food: ~400 EUR
Gym: ~50 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 1.050 EUR
+----------------------------------+

Progress until retirement (considering 25x yearly expenses):

Code: Select all

⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 19,7%

It hasn’t been a happy month. I’ve been hesitating to negotiate my salary, fearing they might increase my workload, when I actually want to do less, not more. I wish I could reduce my working hours proportionally to my progress towards retirement, making the transition smoother. Ideally, I’d be working around 30 hours a week at this stage, without noticing much difference. My contract is ending soon, and I’m uncertain about what to do next. I’ll probably end up continuing in the same working conditions due to loss aversion, I suppose.

On a different note, I’ve had a significant disagreement with my partner. I caught her in some lies (not related to cheating), but dishonesty is a deal-breaker for me. Although we might be able to work through it, I’m starting to question the strength of our relationship.

I’m not certain if depression is resurfacing, but I’m feeling the need to spend more time alone. Forcing social interactions at work is wearing down my nerves, and my current relationship feels somewhat suffocating. Additionally, the passion seems to be fading, which is somewhat expected after 8 years, but concerning nonetheless.

For some reason, I’ve been contemplating the idea of finding a job in Saudi Arabia this month. While the place is vastly different from Spain and somewhat hellish, the prospect of a tax-free salary, solitude, and distance from people might help me progress towards my goals faster. Probably I will change my mind in a few days, but I just want to let the thought come to the surface…

[7Wannabe5]

dishonesty is a deal-breaker for me

That's because you've never been in a relationship with somebody who claimed to practice "radical" or "total" honesty.

[Henry]

solitude, and distance from people might help me progress towards my goals faster.

Meditation, mountain climbing, snorkeling, Sharia Law.

[Scott 2]

It hasn’t been a happy month. I’ve been hesitating to negotiate my salary, fearing they might increase my workload, when I actually want to do less, not more.

Do the people who earn more than you, work harder? At what level does that start happening?

In my own career, I saw little correlation with effort and pay. What someone did and if they negotiated, determined pay. Effort was only a 5-10% modifier. I saw lazy people make a lot of money.

There was a partner track. Some of those people worked extremely hard. The effort offered promotions, which changed what they did, eventually impacting pay.

I also experienced - as I earned more, I was treated better. Given more latitude, less micromanagement. Judged on results over effort. Extra training. More influence over how we worked. When a company decides you are valued, that extends beyond salary.

[okumurahata]

@7w5, even if it hurts, give me truth.

@Henry, meditation on the last time I ate jamón ibérico.

@Scott 2, maybe not harder, but being more committed. I see managers having more office politics kind of work or maintaining a facade about how much work they have and how many meetings they attend. I don’t want to be available 24/7, as they seem to be. They probably work less hard, but need to be more visible in general. However, perhaps my concept of more salary == more managerial position is not accurate.

[Scott 2]

You're mixing a few things:

1. Working 24/7 - this has little to do with pay. It's related to boundary setting and workplace culture. I agree, it is a losing game.

2. Political savvy - this has everything to do with pay. It's the highest return on effort you'll find. If you want to do less, this is the ticket. You are not paid for what you do, but for the value others perceive you add. The facade of 24/7 availability and diligent hard work, is most likely politics. I wouldn't let it deter you from negotiating.

3. Management. It's a different profession, depends on politics, requires more meetings and does pay more.

[ertyu]

I’ve been hesitating to negotiate my salary, fearing they might increase my workload, when I actually want to do less, not more.

You're postulating a connection that's not there. There's no point in fearing that they will increase your workload. Negotiate salary first, deal with everything else later - the hours thing might not even end up being an issue. Also, keep in mind that just because you negotiate, you don't have to accept, even if they end up giving you everything you want.

On Saudi: I'd go. Expat packages often have very good benefits, and if you want a hermit lifestyle, you can have it. What would you do if you go?

[okumurahata]

@Scott 2, @ertyu,

There are two options:

1. They grant my request, but the trade-off entails increased responsibility, involvement in office politics, etc.
2. They maintain the current offer. As you're aware, @oku has unconventional preferences and his anarchic behaviour is not valued at corporations.

If I receive option 1, I hold advantage in the decision-making process. However, if option 2 is presented, which I estimate to have a 40% likelihood, what would you suggest if no improvements are offered? Resign? I find it somewhat pathetic that expressing discomfort could result in remaining in the same position.

As for requesting a raise tactfully, perhaps you could share any experiences or suggestions on how to say it without being too specific? Open to hear some suggestions from other INTJs in the forum.

Regarding to Saudi Arabia, the plan is work, go to the gym, sleep, and repeat. No taxes, no distractions, no family, no friends… The dream of hermINTJs…