Art projects vs engineering projects

[zbigi]

So, it seems to me, that people with artistic inclinations have it easier when it comes to coming up with independent projects to work on, that people with practical/engineering inclinations. In art, even though e.g. there's already a hundred billion novels out there, they don't preclude you from writing your own - because it will be a reflection of your individual take on life, which may be unique and interesting to others. Whereas in engineering , it's the outcome (delivered functionality, performance characteristics etc.) that matters - and almost everything that one person could realistically hope to build was already built a long time ago. You can just buy it, or, in the case of software, download it (often for free). Thus, single person engineering projects need to be done for their own sake, as there's little hope of it ever amounting to anything in the greater world.
From what I'm seeing, people on this forum who really enjoy technical challenges come up with self-imposed limitations to deal with this, such as - I will drive a super old car that breaks down often, and will repair it myself (because I don't trust external mechanics, and because I want to save money). Or - I will spend months building a flight controller instead of buying it, to not spend money. It can make sense in the physical world, because the money saved can be substantial, but in the software world, which is what I enjoy, it's particularly hopeless. I guess that's why so many people start doing their own open source programming languages - the languages are sort of an expression of their taste and preferences, which makes them somewhat closer to art than engineering.

[jacob]

The DIY engineering (flight controllers, work benches, ...) is also about custom design and getting exactly the features, size, etc. you want. You can not buy anything like the joystick I made. It's simply not commercially viable at scale.

Depending on what you're building, it not necessarily even cheaper upfront. However, in the long run, solutions benefit from being repairable or reconfigurable. My projects are almost fully "decomposable", thus closing the loop. This means I generally don't have to buy "fresh" resources.

Speaking of software, the controller I made used an open source software library that someone had made because it wasn't commercially available. Once you start making things yourself, the commercial world begins to feel more and more limited. When you buy, the options are finite and countable on the store shelf. For example, clothing only comes in limited designs and 5 different sizes (XS,S,M,L,XL) for the generic bodyshape. When you DIY, the options are infinite but you have to engineer and produce them yourself, like bespoke clothing.

One overlap is to learn enough about the engineering of a commercial product to modify or add features to it. This seems common in the software world?

[7Wannabe5]

There are also projects that combine art and engineering. For instance, my sister made her own animatronic drumming bear for a children's music band.

[zbigi]

One overlap is to learn enough about the engineering of a commercial product to modify or add features to it. This seems common in the software world?

Yep, and it's been done to death already. Even in super narrow niche like hobbist flight controler control software you mentioned, someone already wrote the open source library. I guess I don't have problems or interests that are uncommon enough to demand solutions that aren't already available. Or, I'm adaptable enough to what's available to not need the custom solutions. E.g. recently my next door neighbor has shown me how has automated his flat with custom made motors etc., and, for example, now his window curtains go up and down automatically according to the time of day etc. It was a fully custom job, with his own electronics etc. I could do that as well, or I could just adjust to the tiny incovenience of having lift the curtains up and down by hand I guess I'm not geek enough to bother with automation.

For example, clothing only comes in limited designs and 5 different sizes (XS,S,M,L,XL) for the generic bodyshape. When you DIY, the options are infinite but you have to engineer and produce them yourself, like bespoke clothing.

I actually experienced the opposite, at least in the clothing area. The variants that the fast fashion industry throws at as are multitude, whereas, if you want to DIY, many of the fabrics they use seem to be hard to obtain, at least in Poland. I tried once to have a tailor-made made trousers, similar to the ones I already had, but with a different fit. The tailor was not able to find matching fabric. Since the clothing industry has largely moved to Asia, I think many variants of fabric aren't even imported to Europe (or US).

[Tyler9000]

I suspect there's a major correlation/causation mix-up here. I've worked a lot with both artists and engineers, and I do find it believable that artists have an easier time thinking of compelling independent projects. But I would argue that the primary cause is internal rather than external. Artists and engineers generally have very different personalities, and artists are (on average) a lot more creative.

I also find the OP examples interesting. Note the juxtaposition:

"In art, even though e.g. there's already a hundred billion novels out there, they don't preclude you from writing your own - because it will be a reflection of your individual take on life, which may be unique and interesting to others."

"Thus, single person engineering projects need to be done for their own sake, as there's little hope of it ever amounting to anything in the greater world."

So both art and engineering projects are done for one's own sake or as a reflection of your individual take on life. I'm with you there. But only art may be interesting to others while there's little hope of engineering amounting to anything? That's where it falls apart for me. It sounds to me like you're holding art on an unnecessary pedestal while not giving yourself enough credit.

Thinking of a few personal projects of various engineers I know:

• One guy builds his own acoustic guitars. If you only look at them you might think it's just an art piece (they're beautiful), but he also plays them and they sound great. That sort of quality, craftsmanship, and performance is something that only an engineer can pull off.

• One modifies and races cars at local dirt tracks on the cheap. In that culture, just going out and buying the fastest pre-built car earns ridicule, not praise. You earn respect and connect with others by doing it with your own two hands.

• And on the software side, I guess I could point to myself as an example. I design portfolio analysis tools and share them online in a completely custom website that I built from scratch. I do it partly because I just find it interesting but also for the challenge in doing something different from what I was trained.

As an exercise to break out of your funk, I would recommend practicing thinking like a right-brained artist rather than a left-brained engineer. Think of a problem that would be fun to solve, and have a 30-minute brainstorm where you write down (preferably draw) every crazy solution you can think of. Pin them to the wall, and stare at them for a while. Then pick a couple that inspire you, and make a prototype of each one. Beyond helping you get started on a fun project, the process itself will work out the creative parts of your brain that will make it easier to come up with new projects in the future.

[7Wannabe5]

Nobody has made an app to automate ERE yet. You could maybe start with the 21 Day Challenge and automate tasks like finding an inexpensive apartment by doing some scraping and using an AI assistant to make phone calls and/or fill in application forms. And/or it could provide a dialogue towards refining/reducing needs and wants. As in:

App: "Why can't you just sleep outside in a tent on public land tonight?" (choose one)
A) Physical discomfort
B) Existing shelter contract
C) Social anxiety
D) Great idea, I will!

Case (A)

"What forms of physical discomfort do you anticipate? (choose all that apply)
(A) Cold
(B) Heat
(C) Insects
(D) Hard and/or lumpy sleeping surface
(E) Other (create custom discomfort)
.
.
.
.
Case (D)

"Congratulations! You have reduced your expenses by (pinchdPennies) and your anticpated FI date is now (yereDay). (Happy music plays. Display of rockets and confetti)

etc. etc.

Then it could also generate some very basic task assignments/ lists for the human user like:

"The warmest spot now available for sleeping in this public park is located approximately 50 yds due SSW from your current location. Please begin to walk in that general direction."

[Slevin]

I don’t buy the “everyone did everything interesting already” software excuse. Just because someone already built a particular software library doesn’t mean they did it necessarily well. You can probably improve on many many well used libraries that are a bit lacking in the performance department. Also, someone having built a library doesn’t preclude you from making a library that does the same thing, but in a different or even better way because you don’t like how they implemented x or y or x. It’s weird to see you write about how all novels are unique when almost all existing large libraries are also unique(ly stupid in places). Almost all legacy code bases get funky over time as feature scope increases and different people come on to work on them. Not to mention the automation of building and testing of those libraries, which usually turns out to be horrific (I.e. misses many use cases).

[mountainFrugal]

As an exercise to break out of your funk, I would recommend practicing thinking like a right-brained artist rather than a left-brained engineer. Think of a problem that would be fun to solve, and have a 30-minute brainstorm where you write down (preferably draw) every crazy solution you can think of. Pin them to the wall, and stare at them for a while. Then pick a couple that inspire you, and make a prototype of each one. Beyond helping you get started on a fun project, the process itself will work out the creative parts of your brain that will make it easier to come up with new projects in the future.

This is a great exercise suggestion. Constraining it a bit more based on what I know about @zbigi... you like software... you like MTG... what about generating ideas about a game that fulfills all the things that you like about MTG, but could be fun to code up and share with others? Basically what you came up with would be original to your specific tastes. Doing creative projects for yourself is the best way to stay engaged.

[Sclass]

So, it seems to me, …
From what I'm seeing…

What exactly are you asking?

[mathiverse]

It seems like a useful exercise for OP might be to list every single assumption in their first post and then to explore whether they can verify or find counterexamples for each of them. I see a lot of easily countered statements in that post. They may also find more open-minded questions they could ask to verify their perceptions which also seem potentially wrong.

[zbigi]

What exactly are you asking?

There's no question in my post. It's just an observation, and an invitation to comment, to agree or disagree etc. Maybe I posted on the wrong board, since it's called "Philosophy and Lifestyle Questions" (and the post is not a question), but it seemed close enough.

[jacob]

... as a reflection of your individual take on life.

I've been sitting on this all week (camping trip). This reflection aspect (inner world manifested in the outer world) is something I still kinda marvel at when it comes to my "engineering creations". Even if it's just making a table, I still feel a deep connection having designed it with my mind and made it with my hands. In particular, it is an expression of who I am and what I can do. Specifically, I'm not an artist, so my inner world does not look like The Scream but rather like The Table. The fact that I'm not a professional [cabinetmaker] also reveals potential flaws in the The Table; similar to how The Scream reveals flaws in the psyche. Yet, these flaws could be the "feature" that establishes the personal connection. Also see, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi

Indeed, it's possible that professionalization is what kills this connection/love of an amateur. What is turning your love into your work but a kind of prostitution. I don't feel much connection to my research in physics after I started getting paid for it ... and that may also be OP's problem. However, it might also be the difference between making something physical vs making something virtual (whether it's on a screen or on paper)? On my first day of retirement I polished the kitchen faucet to a shine (as opposed to the standard "good enough" cleaning) which was much more satisfying than recompiling a code or cleaning my inbox. One of my first post-physics interests was bike repair. Here too there was a feeling of having done something (a repair) that made a clear tangible difference: "I took a broken bike and turned it into a working bike." It was easy to connect with others over that experience compared to my physics or even personal finance blogging, where people would make an attempt of reading it yet fail to understand it. Everybody can understand a shining faucet or a fixed bike.

[Tyler9000]

One of my first post-physics interests was bike repair. Here too there was a feeling of having done something (a repair) that made a clear tangible difference: "I took a broken bike and turned it into a working bike." It was easy to connect with others over that experience compared to my physics or even personal finance blogging, where people would make an attempt of reading it yet fail to understand it. Everybody can understand a shining faucet or a fixed bike.

Reading this, it struck me that it could have come straight out of one of my favorite books -- Shop Class as Soulcraft by Matthew B. Crawford. He has a PhD in philosophy but ultimately found more meaning in repairing motorcycles. Very highly recommended for anyone who hasn't already read it.

I really do think there's something special about working with your hands and doing things yourself. As Crawford puts it, thinking vs. doing.

[7Wannabe5]

The great thing about gardening is that it involves art, science, working with your hands/body, AND the chaos of nature. In fact, I think people who are really into gardening live longer than other humans. because their projects are always changing and never completed.