Stretching

[guitarplayer]

I am looking for a complete quick everyday stretching routine. Ideally for it to last 15-20min and so that it could be done everywhere and anywhere. This is to parallel my 15-20min hiit exercise routine that employs most major muscle parts.

So far my best idea is sun salutations. Any other ideas?

[chenda]

https://youtu.be/2L2lnxIcNmo

Bowflex is a great channel for exercise videos.

[Scott 2]

It depends on your body and what you want to get out of the stretching. I mobilize and activate before lifting, but each movement is very specific to my own problem points.

If I started with fifteen minutes of sun salutes, my shoulders would hurting afterwards. The transition between movements aggravates them. I've done thousands, before coming to terms with this. Not every movement is for every body.

[take2]

I recently signed up for Freeletics. They had a deal for c. $47 for a year, or about $0.13 per day. I think it’s usually twice that.

I’ve been liking it so far. Lots of selection of various exercises, including loads of stretching routines which I add on to the end as my flexibility is horrible. I used to use Freeletics about 7-8 years ago and the interface has improved a lot. You essentially state your goals and what equipment you have and it gives you a tailored programme that changes depending on your times and feedback.

Definitely not needed as there are loads of free options out there but I have trouble sticking to exercise routines without it being put in front of me so it works for me. YMMV

[NewBlood]

A rehab doc recommended the book "Stretching scientifically" (Kurz) to me. I haven't made a serious effort to read it yet, and it's mostly targeted at athletes, but the guy swore by it, and I could see it being a good fit for INTJs here. It has example routines at the end.

[guitarplayer]

Thanks all, my main motivation is something along the lines of 'I would like to decrease the chances of being very stiff in 30+ years and subsequently breaking my hip or similar and shorten the life I would prefer not to shorten'. Will look into the resources here, thanks.

[llorona]

Yin yoga will keep you spry! Try Travis Eliot on YouTube. His videos last anywhere from 10 minutes to 1.5 hours. I stretch for about 60-90 minutes per week and it keeps me limber. Maybe it will work for you.

[Cam]

Paul Ingraham over at painscience.com has written an in depth post about the benefits, or lack of, from stretching. Here's a summary from the top of the article, as the article itself is the length of a small book.

"Stretching does not deserve its popularity and should not be considered a pillar of fitness. It does feel good, of course, and it will increase flexibility — mainly by increasing sensory tolerance rather than actually changing tissue. But flexibility is an overrated goal, and also easily achieved with other kinds of exercise that are much more beneficial for fitness in other ways (e.g. end-range strengthening).

No other significant benefit to stretching has ever been proven, not using any method, no matter how allegedly “advanced.” Almost everything people expect from it simply doesn’t work: stretch doesn’t warm anyone up, prevent soreness or injury, contribute meaninfully to rehab, or enhance peformance. In fact, it can cause injury, and impair performance! Not seriously, but still.

Regardless of efficacy, stretching is inefficient, “proper” technique is controversial at best, and many key muscles are actually biomechanically impossible to stretch in any case — like most of the quadriceps group (which runners never believe without diagrams).

Finally, despite the fact that it feels so good, stretching does not seem to constitute any kind of a treatment for common kinds of aches and pains. It falls especially flat where expectations are highest: it isn’t an effective therapy for back pain."


https://www.painscience.com/articles/stretching.php

No matter what you think about stretching, it is a seriously interesting read. Very heavily researched with all sources provided as well.

[jacob]

Thanks all, my main motivation is something along the lines of 'I would like to decrease the chances of being very stiff in 30+ years and subsequently breaking my hip or similar and shorten the life I would prefer not to shorten'. Will look into the resources here, thanks.

The lack of flexibility will prevent or at least make it harder to put a limb in a certain place. However, what causes stumbles and breaks hips in the elderly is the lack of attention (whether limited eyesight or not being able to see their feet under their belly), reduced balance, and reduced reaction time combined with the lack of strength to catch the body (or worse their head) and consequentially falling like a sack of potatoes. I've seen old people fall.

Do burpees, standard and sideways. Your hips will never touch the ground.

[guitarplayer]

Thanks @llorona, nice that you are around I read through your journal a good while back, you have a lifestyle very different from mine so good to read such stuff for open mind.

@Cam seems like quarrels around the topic of stretching are akin to discussions on diet! The "increasing sensory tolerance" is something I would likely be interested in as now when I approach the limit the body part that is stretched starts to tremble which I find annoying and I don't see it happening in other people.

@jacob yeah sideways burpees look good, I'll incorporate this in my daily practice as it costs nothing. Maybe I should spend a bit of time looking at more variations of burpees since I'm doing them anyway.

[jacob]

@jacob yeah sideways burpees look good, I'll incorporate this in my daily practice as it costs nothing. Maybe I should spend a bit of time looking at more variations of burpees since I'm doing them anyway.

The point is practicing to catch yourself.

Burpees catch yourself from a standing position.
Walking rolling falls is next.
Then there's running falls.
Then ... a kind of aikido ukemi ...

At some point, you're probably gonna fall in one of the above ways. Your regular practice of such falling determines the consequences thereof.

[guitarplayer]

a kind of aikido ukemi

Hey I remember that from taking Judo at one of the unis I was attending. Also

[...] or not being able to see their feet under their belly

this is pretty funny to read at first but also pretty sad at the afterthought.

Nah but it makes sense what you write, did my fair share of falls across the first two decades and it doesn't happen to me nearly as often as to people around me, most notably DW when we met. Then I dragged her on marathons and cycling trips and such - she's okay with falls now too (in that they barely happen to her at all).

Maybe stretching is overestimated then. Need to think about it and try some things out. But then taking control of money has to take precedent because I am not old yet but I already have a heap of money. But I digress.

[Cam]

Thanks @llorona, nice that you are around I read through your journal a good while back, you have a lifestyle very different from mine so good to read such stuff for open mind.

@Cam seems like quarrels around the topic of stretching are akin to discussions on diet! The "increasing sensory tolerance" is something I would likely be interested in as now when I approach the limit the body part that is stretched starts to tremble which I find annoying and I don't see it happening in other people.

@jacob yeah sideways burpees look good, I'll incorporate this in my daily practice as it costs nothing. Maybe I should spend a bit of time looking at more variations of burpees since I'm doing them anyway.

Oh yes it is one of those topics! I like Jacob's advice, especially for the goals you're seeking.

[ducknald_don]

I recently read that for 40% of hip fractures the fracture precedes the fall.

[guitarplayer]

I recently read that for 40% of hip fractures the fracture precedes the fall.

So the assumption there would be that weak bones get fractured when bumped against something, and this would be followed by a fall?

Today I did 67 reps of straight-left_side-right_side burpees, it was good I'll do it again.

[Jim]

I've seen seem the aftermath of hundreds of people (young and old) falling over. To echo Jacob and Cam, I'm not sure that stretching is the best course of action against falls, but a focus on building strength, balance and proprioception is probably time more well spent. Frailty seems like it's liable to get you before inflexibilty does.

I think there is a good caveat here though. Decent joint mobility is pretty important. When I lived in China, I saw lots of elderly people looking extremely spry, especially when compared to the conventional hamfed north american fauna. Credit goes largely to their ankle flexibilty, which allows them to squat regularly for prolonged periods of time, thus increasing their leg strength and balance. The ankle flexibilty allows you to put heels on the ground and keep your center of gravity comfortably over your feet. Many westerners don't have this range of motion in their ankles and it makes the squatting position untenable. We typically sit on toilets and chairs instead of squatting and thereby lose out on all that "background exercise" from gettting into/out of a squat regularly throughout the day. So increasing your ankle flexibilty (in order to squat with your heels on the ground throughout the day) may be a type of stretching that you could incorporate that would have a beneficial impact on longevity/robustness.

[guitarplayer]

We typically sit on toilets and chairs instead of squatting and thereby lose out on all that "background exercise" from gettting into/out of a squat regularly throughout the day.

My stay in Turkey some years back was an inspiration for a similar train of thought. In some countries called 'Turkish toilets', the type of toilets where one needs to squat are fairly popular in the Balkans. I have spotted them also in Italy and I think in Spain too.

[Slevin]

I’m seeing great mobility increases from PNF, but it is quite painful to perform and then will leave you excessively sore afterwards. Best used like lifting in terms of dosages, around 2x/week at most. I don’t know what type of mobility you are trying to achieve, so I can’t give ultra specific recommendations here.

[J_]

So increasing your ankle flexibility (in order to squat with your heels on the ground throughout the day) may be a type of stretching that you could incorporate that would have a beneficial impact on longevity/robustness.

In my rowing club elderly members can still perfect row. But getting in and out of the boat becomes (too) difficult for many. As I am in the same age category I do squatting exercises as Jim describes to keep my ankles flexible. For I like to row the skiff (the most demanding and wobbly to enter/leave)

[white belt]

Credit goes largely to their ankle flexibilty, which allows them to squat regularly for prolonged periods of time, thus increasing their leg strength and balance. The ankle flexibilty allows you to put heels on the ground and keep your center of gravity comfortably over your feet. Many westerners don't have this range of motion in their ankles and it makes the squatting position untenable. We typically sit on toilets and chairs instead of squatting and thereby lose out on all that "background exercise" from gettting into/out of a squat regularly throughout the day. So increasing your ankle flexibility (in order to squat with your heels on the ground throughout the day) may be a type of stretching that you could incorporate that would have a beneficial impact on longevity/robustness.

Technically, squatting requires hip and ankle mobility/flexibility. Most Westerners will be limited by a lack of hip mobility caused by sitting in chairs first, rather than a lack of ankle mobility (unless there were previous ankle injuries). Human anthropometry also plays a role as well. If you have a longer torso and shorter legs, you will require less mobility to squat and will be more easily be able to squat with an upright torso.

Overall, I'm in agreement with the recommendations in this thread. I've tried to incorporate a lot more natural positions on the floor rather than sitting in a chair when possible. The important thing is to start where you are and work in a progression. For example, for the squat you can spend a lot of time holding on to something in the front like a railing or counterweight. You can even accumulate time leaning up against a wall behind you in a squat position. Then, you can start to identify specific joints/muscles that are limiting you and work on them in isolation. If you haven't spent time resting in a body weight squat or sitting cross-legged on the floor since childhood, it's going to take a while to regain that range of motion. YouTube has plenty of progressions to keep you in good positions as you increase mobility. For example, just going straight for sitting cross-legged will likely result in knee and back pain if you lack the mobility to rotate the pelvis forward while getting your knees towards the floor. So instead, you start off with your butt higher off the floor using a pillow, block, etc so you can get your pelvis in the right position to keep your spine neutral.