Are you an "adult"?

[Walwen]

I saw a trending reddit thread of someone asking "Is it weird I don't feel like a real adult at 24? When will I feel like an adult?" I've also seen this line of questioning elsewhere. The overwhelmingly most common answer: "Never. Everyone is simply pretending. You never feel like a real adult. You always wish you had an adult when you're in trouble because you never feel like you're the adult."

....I don't feel like I'm pretending. I'm a young adult at 20, I'll give you that, but I've felt like an adult since 18. I pay my taxes and rent, I go to work and deal with adult problems, I still have stuffed animals and talk to my mom sometimes- those are things adults do too.

In terms of "People always wish an adult would show up when they're in trouble, because they don't feel adult enough", I get what that feeling means, but if you feel that way all the time you must be (or at least feel) constantly incompetent.

I wanted to bring this up to the ERE community because I'm wondering if what this is is some sort of common incompetence or lack of skill/preparedness. Lack of a sense of control. I think an ERE lifestyle requires a lot of understanding how to control your behaviors- and understanding that this is even possible. So I'm interested to see if people hear think they "are real adults" or not.

No shame if you don't- I'd love to hear why. From what I gather and how common this is, "not feeling like a real adult" isn't correlated that much with success or capability.


On a more personal note I think working solo shifts and having a lot of life responsibilities/things only I could do helped me "become an adult." I had two weeks of job training and then it was just me and 50 high-need clients. I learned authority fast. In contrast, I don't think my sister "became an adult" until after 4 years of college and getting her first "real job." I noticed she started dressing more professionally and this was really the visual difference between a college kid and an adult.

[jacob]

That's actually an extremely rich question!

First, it's interesting how the late 19th/20th/early 21st century makes the distinction between childhood and adulthood. Previously, childhood only went as far as age 6-8ish or so after which everybody was considered a kind of adult complete with all the responsibilities while acknowledging that younglins simply had less competency or experience yet. Hence the apprentice approach where 8yos were given full responsibility to carry out some jobs albeit somewhat simpler ones than 16yos which again were simpler than those given to 24yos unless of course they demonstrated a capacity for it. Back then, some 17yos were given full command of cargo ships crossing the Atlantic ocean. Gifted individuals became professors at age 22. And so on.

Whereas today, we still follow the Romantic ideology that childhood is a "special time" and consequently hold back people until they're out of college by giving them tasks that don't really matter and withholding all responsibilities from actual adult life. Overall, it seems like society has the goal to extend this "special childhood time" for as long as possible. For the privileged majority it already goes into their late 20s and 30s. We also arbitrarily decide that chronological age determines just how "adult" someone is setting various markers at 15, 18, and 21 depending on the country and culture. (For example, in the US we allow humans to drive at age 15 but not to drink until age 18 or 21. In Europe, it's the other way around. A 15yo can handle a six pack of beer, but there's no way anyone is gonna them give access to a horsepowered vehicle. And vice versa. Thankfully, both continents are wise enough to avoid doing both.) A long period formed by this attitude led to the cultural belief that while there are different stages of childhood (infants, toddlers, preschoolers, schoolers, adolescents), there's only one kind of adult, namely anyone over age 18.

While not commonly accepted, over the past 50 years or so, some have looked into how there may be different stages of adulthood as well. As such whether one is an adult or not is not a binary check mark. Being an adult or rather "a non-toddler human over the age of 8ish" is more a question of degree and what kind of responsibilities and concerns someone is able to understand or accept---just like it once was. So rather than asking whether one feels like an adult or not (yet), the post-postmodern perspective is to ask what stage of adulthood one has reached while recognizing there's a range that is independent of chronological age... same as how we differentiate between different states of childhood. This perspective, however, is not culturally accepted.

[IlliniDave]

I've never "felt" like and adult, but have behaved like one to varying degrees since I was about 14 or so (started high school, first job). And it's not been a monotonically increasing behavior progression for me either. Especially now that I am retired I try to let out my inner child as much as possible. I sort of equate being 100% absorbed in the moment as freeing of the inner child. The adult part is the part anticipates and prepares for future needs. That's an oversimplified overview, but fits me pretty well.

[Seppia]

What marked adulthood for me was when I started working full time, left permanently our family home and started paying for ALL my living expenses
My view of “being an adult” is similar to what we see in animals: ie when the cub leaves the family and goes on to sustain itself.

[daylen]

Not an adult here but it seems to me that children become adults and then if they are lucky, they get to become children again.

[Frita]

Not an adult here but it seems to me that children become adults and then if they are lucky, they get to become children again.

I’d argue that if I am lucky I don’t regress. My FIL’s last months were spent wearing diapers, totally dependent, and quite fearful. Adult retirement communities fill one’s time with activities and shallow acquaintances. My 55 year cousin who recently died lived in such a place and found great esteem in her pickleball trophies according to her obituary, half of which was dedicated to the year at the retirement place. Getting older embeds new challenges and limitations. I guess there are different ways to approach it though.

[Jean]

I don't think anyone without his own child is an adult, and that people who don't take care for their child aren't adult either.
I would have very much liked being given responsabilities at 8 yo.

[daylen]

I meant more along the lines of being able to see the world afresh, as if being a curious kid at the playground in awe of simple pleasures, ideas, and relations.

[Toska2]

https://offtheleash.net/2016/01/31/the- ... -teenager/

"question of degree and what kind of responsibilities and concerns someone is able to understand or accept" ---- That's how I apply Kegan levels.

The question, "Are we Real Adults?" is comparative. I've gutted a few deer but I didn't butcher a chicken every Tuesday and Sunday like my grandmas. I toiled in in the fields 12 hours a day but I didn't build house in my 20's.

I think simply navigating nor thriving this world isn't enough to be an adult. It's the playful wisdom after you climbed the first rung of Maslow's hierarchy of needs

[7Wannabe5]

I don't core question whether I am an adult. I think level of cognitive development achieved in adulthood and ability to manifest the roles, qualities, or competencies associated with adulthood in our species or society are intertwined yet separate issues. Even across species we recognize qualities of maturity that make individual fit to assume role. For instance, humans will hold off on breeding a dog too early, because maybe not old enough to be a good mother. But, it is highly doubtful that even the most mature old elephant in a parade is capable of asking herself "Am I an adult?"

The model that I use as a cognitively developed human is based on theory that highest overall functioning is achieved when movement between my Adult Feminine, Adult Masculine, Juvenile Feminine, and Juvenile Masculine states of being with associated qualities is as free, fluid, and self-aware as possible. IOW (that are more free of gender associations/stereotypes), if/when I am free to appropriately move from feeling/behaving responsible and caring, able to assume authority and display competence, playful and open to new experiences, or vulnerable and open to depth of feeling, then I am functioning at highest human level.

Measures such as the ability to pay your own cellphone bill being tied to achievement of adult status are directly related to the fact that we live in a highly individualistic society which values masculine energy. Ask yourself if you know anybody with a net worth of a million dollars who is also almost completely lacking in self-awareness,and also kind of an ass-hole and very rigid in their thinking/judgment. That would be somebody who is "locked" in the Adult Masculine. Think about how Shirley Temple would interact with The Colonel or The Capitalist (grouchy old man locked in adult masculine energy) in a depression era movie; that is how somebody who is strong in their Juvenile Feminine energy might behave. A child can only behave unconsciously or in accordance with memorized script, but a cognitively developed adult could self-aware choose to exhibit strong Juvenile Feminine behavior if/when dealing with somebody locked in Adult Masculine energy and also get their cellphone bill paid. IOW, the more an individual is ego-attached to the idea that they are the "most adult" in terms of a given context, the more unconsiously vulnerable (weak) they are relative to the more cognitively developed. IOW, more human trumps more adult/dominant.

[jacob]

I don't think anyone without his own child is an adult, and that people who don't take care for their child aren't adult either.

Interestingly, transactional analysis makes a distinction between adult and parent which seems relevant to this thread. TA considers the ego to be made out of three states---child, adult, parent---out of which the ego only occupies one at a time depending on the situation.

• The inner child state is the source of spontaneity, feelings, and needs.
• The inner parent state handles responsibilities, routine, and determines how someone ought to behave (e.g. show up on time, brush your teeth, ...) It's fundamentally social patterns learned from one's own parents, teachers, and bosses. A moral code of how people should behave. The parent takes care of people/things and serve their needs.
• The inner adult state provides an objective analysis of the world as it is. This is the expert.

In light of the above, some answer the OP question from the parent perspective ("the ability to earn a living and take care of yourself, having children, ...") and some answer it from the adult perspective ("the ability to step out of the situation and take perspectives and understand how things work")

I haven't played around with TA in a long time, but I did take a test when I was 15 or so at which point I was something like 70% adult, 20% child, and 10% parent. I doubt this balance has changed much. IOW, I've been feeling like an adult for a long time; never really like a parent.

Add: More interestingly, the schooling system is intended to create functional adults in the above sense. Indeed, becoming some kind of expert who is focused on being good at their job is considered the goal of western education. (From an adult developmental perspective, that's something like stage 4 out of 10). Whereas creating functional parents is the job of parents.

[bostonimproper]

I think “feeling adult” for me has been having responsibility over the lives of others. Once I started making hiring and firing decisions, that was a big one. Also having a baby and being responsible for my family’s livelihood and care.

The other thing has been the slow degradation of my body, sometimes correctible sometimes not. Though maybe that’s just feeling “old”, not necessarily “adult.”

[Anesau]

Perhaps this is more surface-level than what the question is getting at, but my appearance makes me feel less like an adult. I'm in my 20s with a full time job, but at work people I don't know occasionally mistake me for an intern, and outside work I semi-frequently get mistaken for a highschooler. Probably mostly due to face + haircut, partially clothes. So I don't "feel like an adult" yet because most other people don't default to treating me as a full adult -- older women, especially, act unusually friendly or protective around me. (Also, both my area and my job skew older, so I interact with many more 50-70 yr olds than fellow 20-somethings.)

So I don't often "feel like a real adult" because I don't feel like others perceive me as one. But I am financially independent and reasonably successful, so I would place myself at about the median of acting like an adult. And I don't want any "real adults" to bail me out of trouble.

To throw some wild theorizing in the ring, maybe increases in average health (decreased smoking, decreased childhood malnutrition, decreased sun damage, etc.) and changes in clothing norms make people look younger longer today, which can affect self-perception.

An even further stretch: changing demographics in countries with low birth rates and long life expectancy may also change perception. If you were to hold the percent of adults in a population constant during demographic transition, the cutoff age for adulthood would increase. I don't think that's literally what's happening, but it's illustrative of the changing distribution.

[oldbeyond]

To me adulthood is synonymous with responsibility, being the “they” who takes care of things and sits with the anxiety tough choices give rise to. Our economy and culture has been all about replacing this burden with procedures that can be followed blindly. entrepreneurial capitalism to managerial capitalism, character to political correctness, self-organizing laborers to the welfare state. For good and ill, but I don’t find it surprising that a lot of people feel that they haven’t attained adulthood these days.

I personally feel least like an adult when I face new challenges at work, especially when they involve interaction with “the real world” and not simply a computer screen. When it comes to the family and household, I’m comfortable taking charge and owning my decisions.

[Jean]

This replacement of responsabilities with procedures is very annoying.
We have a small lake nearby, which usually freeze i winter, and there is only a sign that says that no one checks if the ice is thick enough. It's not forbiden to go on the ice, but you are the only person responsible for the decision. It was nice to decide by myself if i want to go on the lake or not, without having to oppose power. It shows how much those occurence are becoming rare.

[Hristo Botev]

I don't think anyone without his own child is an adult, and that people who don't take care for their child aren't adult either.

This was what first came to mind for me as well (and it's why I clicked on this topic link, tbh, to see if anyone else shared this view): an adult is someone who is responsible for taking care of others--as a parent, or a parish priest, or even as someone who perhaps never married and had kids but who is responsible for taking care of family members including elderly parents. Looking at the Oxford English Dictionary, however, most of the definitions there simply use adult as part of a child/adult dichotomy, which makes sense; and I suppose from that perspective the dividing line b/w child and adult is not responsibility for others but rather responsibility to take care of oneself--dependent (child) v. independent (adult). Seems this shouldn't really be much of a bar at all for anyone 18 or over (or even 16 or over) with anything approaching average intelligence. And yet, at least anecdotally, sure does seem like lots of folks never make it into "adulthood" regardless of age. And to @Jean's point, there are even a whole lot of folks who aren't "adults" notwithstanding the fact that they've stuck two together resulting in offspring.

[daylen]

An illusion of independence is an awfully good way to get one bunch of cells to defect against another bunch of cells in the name of "survival", "familial protection", and/or "nationalism".

These were perhaps necessary steps towards the emergence of games at a higher order that incintivise cooperation in games at lower orders. Yet, these days it seems we humans are due for re-dependence on the natural world.

Nature creates humans. Humans create machines. Machines degrade nature. Nature degrades human wealth. Humans modify machines to limit humans and upgrade nature. Humans get to human for longer on a smaller scale. Win win win.

[Frita]

Reading through the recent posts of @oldbeyond, @Jean, and @HB, it struck me how easy it is to live as a perpetual teenager. Granted that at least in the US; this was a post WWII construct to extend childhood, decrease competition for jobs, and increase selling opportunities.

Part of childhood is testing limits. A healthier teen will have developed some automatic, internalized limits based on values. A less healthy teen continues to push limits, ironically needing authority while hating it. For the former, there is always a loophole, even if only one/some of the many forms of denial. Many people function like teens, to include young teens(!).

In my working days, I did a lot of home visits and had lots of info regarding families. At one point, the demographic shifted to include kids with parents who were terminally educated and well-off. From the outside, there were huge differences. On the inside, they functioned similarly and produced kids with comparable socio-emotional challenges. Education and wealth are not a shortcut to adulthood either, though that seems to be a common lense. Status is a teen’s game…ugh, that’s been around a long time, so perhaps the rate of change in society facilitates more regressive behaviors to cope?

[7Wannabe5]

There is a level on which I agree that becoming a parent yourself or taking on similar responsibility is a hallmark of adulthood, but as somebody who is now around 15 years empty-nest, post-intensive-child-rearing years, I would say that there is something more. In fact, I think that those who are still in the mire of the very busy years of parental responsibility don't quite get it yet, because they haven't run out of "script." Of course, if the "script" is stretched out to match increased lifespans then it is still possible to never run out of "script" until you are fairly old. Have your last child at 39, and you might still have that kid living with you when they are 24, and you are 63. But, if you stop having kids at 26, like I did, you can be empty-nest in your early 40s with decades of adulthood to live beyond the 20 years of prime parental responsibility experience you already had. And, increasingly, many of us will never be grandparents. So, what to do, how do we continue to "adult" in what I think of as all the "after-life" or no-longer-on-script years? I recently attended a district-wide professional development meeting for all the tutors-of-disadvantaged-children like me. Pretty much a large room full of nothing but nice old women ranging in age from 40s into 80s.

[daylen]

@7w5 Given not everyone in a given generation can feasibility have children (due to finite limits and exponential growth). Do you think it is possible to learn the corresponding life lessons through temporary responsibility for children or elderly (like extended babysitting over say several weeks or months)?

I imagine a future where the local neighborhood regularly distributes child and elder care responsibilities to capable members. Kinda like how many tribes do. Perhaps with another level or three where neighborhoods exchange capable members across vast distances as an initiation ritual and trust builder between highly differentiated cultures.