M wrote:I speculate at times if this is why some women don't desire shy, submissive men so much. If a man is very shy it might be harder to say if he is really into you, where a more dominant will just come out and say it / show it some way.
I must not be expressing myself clearly. I was trying to make the point that "shy" does NOT equal " socially submissive" does NOT equal "sexually submissive" does NOT equal "inexperienced" does NOT equal "introverted" does NOT equal "passive" does NOT equal "depressive" does NOT equal "just not that into you." Therefore, you
may be engaging in a variety of wishful thinking or covert contract (deal you are making with another human that they don't know about
) IF you assume that the reason why the attractive strong, silent type nerd OR the attractive silent brooding artist type is not asking you out is "because shy" or "because inexperienced" etc. , when it very well may be "because not into kooky acting women with pudge belly." But, men of all types have a difficult time/are unlikely to turn down free sex when just tossed into lap, so you can end up stuck in less than ideal relationship for a while if you engage in practice of "dating men who are not dating you." IOW, it's best practice to offer respect by assuming that any man you might wish to date either already has his own fishing pole, knows where to find one, or is capable of figuring out where to find one, and you are not doing anyone a favor by just giving him a fish. There is also almost certainly a level of practice that would be even better than this, but it has not been my observation that I yet inhabit an environment in which it would work.
M wrote:On the pudge belly during sex - this may worry you more than the men you are having sex with
Oh, it's definitely about my own aesthetic.
jacob wrote:The variables are fads, fashion, and personal preference.
I grok what you are saying, but there are aspects of Level Green, such as feminism (which I hope is not just a fad), that are continuing to change the overall field. and although I definitely think that I am a beneficiary of feminism, I am concerned about negative secondary effects, even if they may prove to be temporary or not all that significant.
Integral psychology might also be a fad or personal preference, but I think it offers some insight, and I've been struck by how some of the presentations on The Stoa on the topic of sexuality are very much in alignment with my current take. For instance, I laughed out loud when "Hanzi" discussed the circumstances under which polyamory might become a functional possibility, because almost exactly in alignment with my own experience. (I think I posted it on polyamory thread.)
This presentation by Raven Connolly on the topic of "Sex, Dating, and Why Modern Relationships Are So Fucked Up" is also excellent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4K4vXHrZTw
In most general terms, the disolution of stereotypical sex/gender roles at Orange/Green may leave humans lost/confused in their sexuality, in somewhat the same way that the concept of moral relativity may leave humans lost/confused in their purpose. So, at Level Yellow, you are free, and also somewhat compelled, to work with the components available, and put together a model that does work. But, the vocabulary may still be awkward, so, for instance, you might find yourself typing phrases like "when a man is in his feminine energy" , so maybe you try something like "when a man is in his submissive energy", but that doesn't work either, because what we used to mean when we typed "feminine" is not the same as "submissive." etc.etc. Can we construct a model of human sexuality absent concepts associated with gender and/or submission and dominance and/or health/beauty/status etc.? I mean, I could go on for a bit at systems level borrowing vocabulary of permaculture and using terms like "that which is more like a swale" and "that which is more like the rain" , but it's not the case that all holisms are perfectly congruent.
Anyways, anecdote is kind of weak as data point, and toolbox is certainly limited if that's all you've got, but it may serve to illustrate, create empathy, lend perspective, or simply amuse. Also, I would note that there's a thread on this forum entirely devoted to the topic of tying knots, and in purely practical terms, sex skillz are way more likely to promote survival in post-apocalyptic worst case scenario OR even get you a ride on a yacht in happier circumstance.