Marriage Trends

How to pass, fit in, eventually set an example, and ultimately lead the way.
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fiby41
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Re: Marriage Trends

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7Wannabe5
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Chad:

Gotcha. For some reason (avatar?), I was thinking you were more like 32 than 44. So, now I will have to share some scared-straight advice based on my experience dating highly selective never-married men in their 50s (as opposed to men who are over 50 and no female ever wanted to marry them.)

Now, it is true that if you survey the female population in total, the result will be that the most attractive age for a man is mid-40s. However, this is in large part due to the fact that most females have a fairly strong preference for men who are their age or just a bit older, but a woman who is 77 and taking this survey is not about to bold-faced lie to the extent that she will indicate that 79 is more attractive than 49. Also, it is definitely not the case that 45 is the mean of a normal curve. Seriously steep cliff on the decline.

Due to some happenstance, I have dated (for a period of at least 9 months) 3 different never-married men who were 52 years old, when I was 42, 45 and 51 years old myself. Therefore, I have a somewhat informed perspective/opinion that right around 52 is the age that a guy will feel the urge to decide for once and for all whether he will ever get married, analogous to how women often feel compelled to make final call on kids around the age of 39. However, just like is often the case with the woman considering maternity at 39, they have waited too long.

As I mentioned above, middle-aged men think it is appropriate to date women who are approximately 7 years younger, but when you get to something right around a 12 year difference in age, it does become significant. So, 52 is on the edge of seeming a bit long in the tooth to a woman who is 39. Therefore, all the women who don't think a 52 year old guy might be too old are now also in the group that has either already had kids or made final decision to not have kids. So, desire for a family is no longer in their decision matrix. So, choice to marry or not amounts to choice about whether to share living accommodations with some grouchy old man (A)vs. just having fun being entertained through dating (B)and/or cozy solo Grandma cottage reality (C.) Given that more than half of the single female population over the age of 39 has likely previously had the experience of sharing living accommodations with some grouchy young man, many or most tend to veer towards choice (B) or (C.) And, those who for some likely irrational reason are considering the possibility of (A) are far less likely to choose grouchy old man who has never been married over divorced/widower for the same reason they wouldn't choose a dog that wasn't even previously house-broken from the pound.

So, unless you are cool with having one of your younger sisters make your funeral arrangements, better get cracking!!!

Chad
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by Chad »

@7w5
:) I appreciate the advice and it's roughly the general guideline I have in my head. Of course, there are always exceptions.

I would like to have a significant other, but I also like being able to make decisions without worrying about someone else. If single is how I die, so be it. There are way worse ways.

There will be no traditional funeral arrangements. I hate traditional funerals and really despise graveyards. Why do dead people need land? And, half the time it's really good land. My preferred method of body disposal would be to be drug out into the middle of the woods and left for the animals, bugs, and bacteria. Of course, that's probably illegal most places, so the cheapest method is likely cremation along with a few kegs for a party. They can then have whatever assets I have left.

The avatar is Hunter S. Thompson.

“We are all alone, born alone, die alone, and—in spite of True Romance magazines—we shall all someday look back on our lives and see that, in spite of our company, we were alone the whole way. I do not say lonely—at least, not all the time—but essentially, and finally, alone. This is what makes your self-respect so important, and I don't see how you can respect yourself if you must look in the hearts and minds of others for your happiness.” - Hunter S. Thompson

Dragline
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by Dragline »

Out of the 8 or so closest friends of mine from childhood, 3 are never married/no kids in their fifties, although there has been cohabitation off and on. I think its become relatively common.

BRUTE
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by BRUTE »

Hunter S. Thompson wrote:We are all alone, born alone, die alone, and—in spite of True Romance magazines—we shall all someday look back on our lives and see that, in spite of our company, we were alone the whole way. I do not say lonely—at least, not all the time—but essentially, and finally, alone. This is what makes your self-respect so important, and I don't see how you can respect yourself if you must look in the hearts and minds of others for your happiness.
saved to favorite quotes file

Farm_or
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by Farm_or »

@7wb5 Grouchy old men AND grouchy young men? Sorry, but couldn't help seeing the common denominator...

Evolution is inevitable. The hardest part is accepting that no matter how good of a choice you think you make, it can (and usually does) go upside down.

The second hardest part is the realization that the change for better is only possible in your own self.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Chad wrote:The avatar is Hunter S. Thompson.
Duh on me. Kind of thing that makes me fret about early onset dementia.

The part of me that was once a 19 year old individual who wept when she read "On Liberty" deeply appreciates the quote you posted. The part of me that is a 52 year old crone attempting to cram some level of comprehension of general systems theory into her brain before dementia does dim, would note (hear my tone as completely matter of fact autistic monotone, like voice of objective alien intelligence) that I am almost certain that there was another female human in the vicinity when Hunter S. Thompson, Chad and BRUTE were born. IOW, nobody is born alone.

The trick is to accept this reality without experiencing the reactivity that might summon up urge to deny that you "owe" anything to your mother, society, the rest of the human race....

Or parse the difference between "Put on your own oxygen mask first." and "Put on your own oxygen mask." What comes next?

7Wannabe5
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Farm_or

Well, perhaps more reflective of my own personal experience than the general population, but recent studies indicate that females are on average happier than males. Testosterone has a brightening effect, so it must be something else.

IlliniDave
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by IlliniDave »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:47 am
Therefore, I have a somewhat informed perspective/opinion that right around 52 is the age that a guy will feel the urge to decide for once and for all whether he will ever get married, analogous to how women often feel compelled to make final call on kids around the age of 39. However, just like is often the case with the woman considering maternity at 39, they have waited too long.
What a relief. Having just incremented past 52, sounds like I'm now safe! :D

7Wannabe5
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@IllinDave:

You were already far out of danger territory due to acquiring two daughters in previous marriage. You just need to loosen up a bit and round up some action.

Chad
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by Chad »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:06 am
... that I am almost certain that there was another female human in the vicinity when Hunter S. Thompson, Chad and BRUTE were born. IOW, nobody is born alone.

The trick is to accept this reality without experiencing the reactivity that might summon up urge to deny that you "owe" anything to your mother, society, the rest of the human race....
This quote also has nothing to do with "owing" anyone or trying to get out of "owing" anyone. No doubt there were other humans around, especially my mother, at my birth. That still doesn't make me not alone. No matter how many people love you and no matter how deep this love is, you still have to face everything alone. I'm not, and I don't think Thompson is either, suggesting we don't get help and support. This doesn't change the fact that we are still actually alone. This truth was displayed to me during my mother's battle with brain cancer. There was no level of help, love, etc. that could really make her not alone.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Chad:

You are right in noting that I shouldn't have predicted the standard "Well, "I" didn't ask to be born." sort of response to my observation, since I am not addressing an audience of 14 year old libertarians.

What I am trying to get at is something like the disconnect between the system of psychology, the system of economy/finance and the system of ecology. What interests me is that financial independence depends on the conventions of one model and going completely "moneyless" depends on the conventions of another model. This is relevant to the argument I am attempting to make here about marriage, but I am too stupid to do a very good job at it.

Okay, here goes again. Would you choose to get married in a world without money? What do you think marriage would look like in that world? Is cleaving to your money in this world actually preventing you from having the FREEDOM to enter into that sort of relationship in the here and now?

Chad
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by Chad »

@7w5
Considering my score on the recent libertarian test, I don't think I qualify even if I was 14. :)

Would you choose to get married in a world without money?
I lean a little away from getting married at all, but this would increase the odds slightly (see below for more on this).

What do you think marriage would look like in that world?
Not a lot different for most people. Very very different for some.

Is cleaving to your money in this world actually preventing you from having the FREEDOM to enter into that sort of relationship in the here and now?
I doubt it. A world without money would probably increase my likelihood of getting married. However, all a world without money would do is increase the number of possible mates and I don't think it would increase them by a lot.

Money is just another variable in the equation, like if she does or doesn't want kids. These are big enough variables were certain values would rule out the relationship, but there is no value in those variables that would guarantee a relationship. These are just ways to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Chad
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by Chad »

@7w5
As a side note, we seem to think very differently, which is one reason why we miss on this subject.

classical_Liberal
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by classical_Liberal »

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Last edited by classical_Liberal on Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Chad:
You may be right, but likely I am the one not quite getting the birdie over the net. I think modern legal marriage contract does tend to muck up what could be a more natural bond or pattern of human mating behavior. So, that's kind of what I was trying to get at with my "marriage without money" question. Since I refer to the model of perma-culture fairly often, I was thinking about what if a human male with a large stock market account was more like a male bear with a 50 square mile territory? Humans don't really behave like bears, but what I have observed of "natural" human male mating behavior does not seem totally consistent with seeking female with the same amount of money (territory) before mating.

@classical_Liberal: What you refer to as "high quality", I would call "universal mixer." I am coming to agree with you on the issue of coupling up before old age. One of the reasons I am still with my current BF is he took very good care of me when I fell victim to multiple viruses caught due to exposure to germ-ridden children. Also, he assured me that all the men in his family just suddenly fall over dead without need for extended nursing.

Chad
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by Chad »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:23 pm
I think modern legal marriage contract does tend to muck up what could be a more natural bond or pattern of human mating behavior. So, that's kind of what I was trying to get at with my "marriage without money" question.
I would agree completely with this. I have always joked with my friends that I would like to "sign" long-term contracts with women in place of marriage. After the time frame we both evaluate.
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:23 pm
Since I refer to the model of perma-culture fairly often, I was thinking about what if a human male with a large stock market account was more like a male bear with a 50 square mile territory? Humans don't really behave like bears, but what I have observed of "natural" human male mating behavior does not seem totally consistent with seeking female with the same amount of money (territory) before mating.
I agree that humans really aren't naturally monogamous. It kind of seems like we are more naturally a "tribal family" than two person family units. Though, it seems like the two person family unit works better in modern society. The culture becoming more ok with non-traditional relationships (numbers, sex, etc.), with a traditional two person family unit being slightly preferred is probably the best way to go with our current economic and culture models.

classical_Liberal
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by classical_Liberal »

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enigmaT120
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by enigmaT120 »

Chad wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:28 pm

There will be no traditional funeral arrangements. I hate traditional funerals and really despise graveyards. Why do dead people need land? And, half the time it's really good land.
I think Riggerjack's idea for old growth forest cemeteries is a great one.

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fiby41
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Re: Marriage Trends

Post by fiby41 »

Chad wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:28 pm
My preferred method of body disposal would be to be drug out into the middle of the woods and left for the animals, bugs, and bacteria. Of course, that's probably illegal most places, so the cheapest method is likely cremation along with a few kegs for a party.
Zoroastrians follow a method where the body is eaten by vultures and then left to decompose.
37% of Americans prefer cremation iirc. I could dig up the source from my browser history is anyone is interested.
enigmaT120 wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:20 pm
Chad wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:28 pm

There will be no traditional funeral arrangements. I hate traditional funerals and really despise graveyards. Why do dead people need land? And, half the time it's really good land.
I think Riggerjack's idea for old growth forest cemeteries is a great one.
You may be also interested in biosUrn, the thing grows one full tree from your remains.

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