Trump - Clown Genius

[Gilberto de Piento]

DH and I went to the women's march in Seattle today. It was extremely positive and welcoming to all, and it made me proud of Seattle.

I went to my local march too. It was good to see people getting organized.

[enigmaT120]

Wasn't there any violence? I thought there was always violence at these things.

What will the marches accomplish?

[Gilberto de Piento]

No violence at all. I've marched or protested for a few issues and never seen any violence. Some of the signs might be angry or offensive depending on your sensibilities and politics but the people holding them are just people unless you pick a fight.

Lots of old people and files yesterday. No one in masks. The police were very nice and friendly to the marchers.

Certainly there is violence or destruction of property at some events by some people but it is rare and often focused on by the media and exaggerated by the opposition.

I don't think marches do anything directly other than show that there is support for or against an issue. It's important that more is done to really accomplish anything.

I encourage you to try it sometime. Being in a huge crowd of protesters is a unique experience.

[Dragline]

I must know about 20 or more people who went to the various gatherings in DC, New York, Chicago and Portland. They all felt it was worthwhile. Many traveled a considerable distance to participate. Lots of mothers/daughters and old school friends and mostly people who had never done anything like it before.

And no, there was no violence. Having seen 25 years worth of these organized/permitted gatherings in DC, there usually isn't or its very isolated.

People intent on vandalism, etc. don't get permits and don't announce publicly where they will be. There were a couple groups like that the day before. But that was limited to a relatively small area and they were arrested. Lot of fake/exaggerated news about the size/magnitude of it, though.

[BRUTE]

Being in a huge crowd of protesters is a unique experience.

that's how the brown shirts started

[Dragline]

No, actually its not. They were originally recruited through a Munich newspaper and assembled several times at a local beer hall. You may be thinking of the Nuremberg rallies that did not become a big deal until the 1930s and were the subject of the famous Riefenstahl films.

But the attraction of crowds is ancient and is "in our DNA" so as to speak: http://www.prospectingmimeticfractals.c ... -old-habit

[Gilberto de Piento]

Being in a huge crowd of protesters is a unique experience.

that's how the brown shirts started

I take your point but our democracy is built on public protest. Like any tool it can be used for good or bad.

I'm sorry you won't ever get to experience it since you are stuck on a server farm somewhere.

[halfmoon]

What will the marches accomplish?

It's a valid question, and one I used to ask myself. Well...not really. I used to just assume that any sort of protest was a self-indulgent waste of time at best. I've come to feel differently, though. I think it started with the Seattle (gay) Pride Parade, which we've attended for the past two years. When people feel scorned or denigrated, it helps to be reminded that others share their issues and support them. It also raises awareness for those who aren't directly experiencing that discrimination. If we don't have compassion for others, it's easy to reduce ourselves to a selfish, egocentric existence counting our wealth (of any sort) and guarding it from all comers. I know of what I speak because THIS WAS ME.

At this time in history (I know there were others), it's even more critical to protest because our new president violently opposes opposition. I started to list all of the ways that he's berated those who disagree with him or just decline to worship at his altar, but we've all witnessed it. I think it's extremely dangerous behavior from the president of a free and democratic country (or any country, for that matter). When a bully tries to knock you down for speaking your mind, you speak more loudly. Silence reads as acquiescence, and that encourages more bullying. My German-born husband is deeply concerned. When we watched the inaugural address, he said: "America uber alles".

that's how the brown shirts started

See above.

[BRUTE]

No, actually its not. They were originally recruited through a Munich newspaper and assembled several times at a local beer hall. You may be thinking of the Nuremberg rallies that did not become a big deal until the 1930s and were the subject of the famous Riefenstahl films.

no. brute was actually thinking exactly of the brown shirts. that whole meeting in groups and feeling strong thing is the exact dynamic that leads to mob madness in humans.

brute isn't pro Trump, but he's anti-mob.

[Campitor]

Wasn't there any violence? I thought there was always violence at these things.

What will the marches accomplish?

Marches bring like minded people together. Most likely anyone who participates in a march or protest would be willing to expend effort in local and national elections and political recruitments and petitions. This gathering presents a ripe opportunity to add people into organizations via signature sheets that record name, phone number and or email.

[SnailMeister4000]

On a not so serious note: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9PxqQyE9aw

[rube]

Not serious? What you mean! I am from the Netherlands and I think it is bloody serious

[Riggerjack]

Wasn't there any violence? I thought there was always violence at these things.

What will the marches accomplish?

Protests are PARTIES!

Like all parties, there are variations, but if you have never been, I highly recommend it! Regardless of your politics, I recommend progressive parties/protests over conservative. More hope and enthusiasm among the young.

Violence is super rare, and you just need to move away from it. Don't stop to help, just get out of the way.

It won't change anything, but most parties don't. That doesn't mean it isn't worth attending. Halfmoon and I will just have to disagree on the value of "raising awareness". But I agree with the others here that protests are worth the hassle to get to, and the small risk if things getting out of hand.

[halfmoon]

Halfmoon and I will just have to disagree on the value of "raising awareness".

That's because you already have a high level of awareness, Riggerjack. I spent a big chunk of my life in a fog of self-obsession that I'm going to label Very Intense Focus because it sounds better. People like me need to be reminded that the world has more complex issues than their net worth or next building project.

Also: yes, it does feel like a party.

[Riggerjack]

I'm in the unique position of having partied at protests, and potentially being a jack booted thug.

During Operation Blockade, I was stationed at ft Bliss. The commanding general was pulling riot gear out of cold storage, and being there put me on the list of potential "peacekeepers". I'm sure it would have come with an hour of training, from a Sgt reading a manual...

Overall, protests are more fun as a protestor.

As for " raising awareness ", we are all aware of the problem, offer a solution, or you are just stroking your self to feel better. I have no issue with masterbation, just don't do it in crowds.

[Chad]

Riggerjack brings up a good point. Protesting is kind of like getting dressed for work. You kind of need to do it to start everything, but it doesn't mean you have done the work. There were big protests against the Nazis in the 1930's, but obviously they failed.

[Chad]

It should also be noted, that it's easier for liberal protests to be created and filled with people. This is because the majority of this population lives in urban areas and, even more so, the major urban areas.

[halfmoon]

As for " raising awareness ", we are all aware of the problem, offer a solution, or you are just stroking your self to feel better.

I'd disagree that we're all aware of the problem. There's a huge divergence of views on what is and isn't a problem; otherwise, everyone would have voted for Bernie Sanders and this thread would be titled "Trump - Clown".

There were big protests against the Nazis in the 1930's, but obviously they failed.

DH likes to quote the Niemoller speech:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

There were protests, but obviously not enough. I would say that the German people's awareness came too late. It's a frog in the boiling water thing.

[Chad]

Yes, a frog in boiling water, but swimming around (protesting) is not enough.

[halfmoon]

Agreed that it's not enough. It's a necessary first step, though. Silent compliance is not a frog's best friend.

Any ideas here about what the next step should be?